[Hexus] Samsung starting production on 8GB of GDDR5 @ 20nm

[Mondozei]

Thought whether to put this in the memory category but the reality is that I'm more interested in the GPU angle. Source

Key quote:

It expects the demand for premium high-bandwidth graphics memory to "rapidly increase," and says that these new GDDR5 memory chips offer "a performance boost that will take the consumer graphics experience to the next level with a 8Gbps data rate".

Built on 20 nm, too. Made for R380X/390X? HBM and all that.

Excited!

 

[Noctifer616]

Is it possible that it's actually better than HBM? Dunno, kinda feels like they are late to the game, GDDR5 has been around for ages now.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Hynix started 2 months ago with it.

http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/77445-sk-hynix-now-shipping-8ghz-gddr5-memory/

Its unrelated to HBM. Its regular GDDR5. HBM is to replace GDDR5.

 

[Gloomy]

Hynix started 2 months ago with it.

http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/77445-sk-hynix-now-shipping-8ghz-gddr5-memory/

Its unrelated to HBM. Its regular GDDR5. HBM is to replace GDDR5.

Wasn't Nvidia going to go with something else? HBC.

 

[R0H1T]

In terms of raw perf the first gen HBM will blow GDDR5 out of the water however GDDR5 at 20nm will most likely be less power hungry than HBM at 30/40nm certainly in terms of perf/W.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Wasn't Nvidia going to go with something else? HBC.

HMC like Intel I think, from Micron/Samsung.

 

[NTMBK]

In terms of raw perf the first gen HBM will blow GDDR5 out of the water however GDDR5 at 20nm will most likely be less power hungry than HBM at 30/40nm certainly in terms of perf/W.

It's not really the memory chips that drive the power requirements, it's the high speed signalling between the GPU and memory. Moving it on package reduces that massively.

 

[PliotronX]

Am I the only breed of nerd that thinks it's kind of hot? And first hearing about HBM, feeling like I'm in a threeway?

 

[R0H1T]

It's not really the memory chips that drive the power requirements, it's the high speed signalling between the GPU and memory. Moving it on package reduces that massively.

You're talking about the final package, I'd say the memory (GDDR5) chips themselves should be less power hungry at 20nm than the first gen HBM, that's assuming it'll (HBM) be on ~30nm :hmm:

As for the rest, I totally agree with you & it'd be really interesting to see which solution is better i.e. HMC or HBM 😎

 

[Gloomy]

HMC like Intel I think, from Micron/Samsung.

Are they still using that or are they switching to HBM?

 

[RussianSensation]

Considering both NV and AMD are moving to HBM, by the time GDDR5 evolves to catch up to 1st gen HBM, there will be 2nd gen HBM. Seems like GDDR5 just isn't keeping up with what's required for GPUs. It's costly in terms of PCB complexity and power usage to go 512-bit as Hawaii has shown. Even 512-bit @ 8000 MHz is 512GB/sec, nowhere near enough what NV wants which is around 1TB/sec with Pascal. Sounds like this tech might benefit current gen consoles and mid-range GPUs or perhaps high end GM200, but not good enough for 14/16nm flagship Pascal/GCN 3.0.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Are they still using that or are they switching to HBM?

HBM is an SK Hynix term. And no, not switching. HMC offers the same as HBM. HMC however is currently faster with 160GB/sec vs HBM 128GB/sec.

 

[NTMBK]

By the way, thread title is wrong. It's 8Gb, not 8GB- a gigabit is an eighth of a gigabyte, so 8Gb = 1GB.

 

[R0H1T]

By the way, thread title is wrong. It's 8Gb, not 8GB- a gigabit is an eighth of a gigabyte, so 8Gb = 1GB.

Maybe we'll finally get an 8GB 980/970 or the true flagship GM200 with 8GB VRAM at less than extortionist prices 😛

 

[ShintaiDK]

Maybe we'll finally get an 8GB 980/970 or the true flagship GM200 with 8GB VRAM at less than extortionist prices 😛

You still have to pay more. I would guess the +4GB alone ends up in around +75$ retail. Maybe as much as 100$.

 

[R0H1T]

You still have to pay more. I would guess the +4GB alone ends up in around +75$ retail. Maybe as much as 100$.

Don't Nvidia & its AIB partners have some leverage wrt GDDR5 pricing, since they're purchasing in bulk. Also one would expect that as a competing tech (HBM) takes off, the price premium for these higher density memory modules should be a lot lower than even in the recent past, ergo lower GDDR5 prices across the board :hmm:

 

[Tuna-Fish]

You're talking about the final package, I'd say the memory (GDDR5) chips themselves should be less power hungry at 20nm than the first gen HBM, that's assuming it'll (HBM) be on ~30nm

90%+ of the power use of high-end ram is signaling. The process used is not very relevant, as it doesn't impact energy use for signaling. HBM allows for much slower and less powerhungry signaling while greatly increasing bandwidth. If the first-gen HBM solutions don't use dramatically less power for memory than high-end GDDR5, I would be very surprised.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Don't Nvidia & its AIB partners have some leverage wrt GDDR5 pricing, since they're purchasing in bulk. Also one would expect that as a competing tech (HBM) takes off, the price premium for these higher density memory modules should be a lot lower than even in the recent past?

Look at Sony. ~90$ for 8GB 5Ghz GDDR5.

I cant imagien AIBs paying less than 50$ per 4GB for 7-8Ghz. Then add the usual cost, RMAs, advertising, logistics etc. And you are quickly up to 75-100$.

And the price for HBM/HMC may be skyhigh.

 

[R0H1T]

90%+ of the power use of high-end ram is signaling. The process used is not very relevant, as it doesn't impact energy use for signaling. HBM allows for much slower and less powerhungry signaling while greatly increasing bandwidth. If the first-gen HBM solutions don't use dramatically less power for memory than high-end GDDR5, I would be very surprised.

So I guess that means most of the power saving figures accrued are mainly from moving the HBM to the GPU, as NTMBK stated earlier in the thread, package & that the 3D (2.5D?) or die stacking nature of first gen HBM has very li'l to do with the actual/major power savings?

 

[ShintaiDK]

A big powersaving is the frequency. 1-1.2Ghz vs 7-8Ghz.

 

[DrBoss]

Doh!
Should have waited to upgrade. 8GB GPU's would be quite appealing.

 

[RussianSensation]

Look at Sony. ~90$ for 8GB 5Ghz GDDR5.

The 16 individual memory chips in the PS4, cost Sony about $88 13 months ago. I would imagine by now the price fell 10-15%. With higher density GDDR5, I would expect this cost to drop 40-50% by end of 2015. It's also not exactly super fast by today's standards (5500mhz). I would expect a Slim or redesigned PS4 with half the GDDR5 chips and node shrunken APUs at some point.

Doh!
Should have waited to upgrade. 8GB GPU's would be quite appealing.

Probably would have added $100 per each 970 given NV's premium VRAM pricing. Next GPU upgrade, just smile and think you have $200 "extra/saved" for your new cards.

By the way, thread title is wrong. It's 8Gb, not 8GB- a gigabit is an eighth of a gigabyte, so 8Gb = 1GB.

You are right. There are actually 2 separate things reported:

1. Higher density 8Gb chips = 1GB.
2. Samsung's new chips are built on its 20-nm fabrication process. They have a 32-bit interface and can hit speeds up to 8Gbps (1GB/s) per pin.

With high-end GPUs like the GeForce GTX 970 and 980, which have 256-bit memory interfaces, it should be easy to produce cards with 8GB of RAM for cheaper prices in 2015.
http://techreport.com/news/27676/samsung-starts-making-8gb-gddr5-memory-chips

 

[ShintaiDK]

The 16 individual memory chips in the PS4, cost Sony about $88 13 months ago. I would imagine by now the price fell 10-15%. With higher density GDDR5, I would expect this cost to drop 40-50% by end of 2015. It's also not exactly super fast by today's standards (5500mhz). I would expect a Slim or redesigned PS4 with half the GDDR5 chips and node shrunken APUs at some point.

I dont think we lack examples of memory increasing in price or staying stable.

The DDR3 I bought back in 2013 is still cheaper than the same modules today.

 

[el etro]

8GHZ of GDDR5, the last resort for the GDDR memory technologies. HBM will take on it, and at mid-term HBM will substitute the conventional DDR RAMs too.

HBM have too many pros to become the future of the memory technology.

RAM is the next thing that the processors will incorporate into it.

 

[Enigmoid]

The 16 individual memory chips in the PS4, cost Sony about $88 13 months ago. I would imagine by now the price fell 10-15%. With higher density GDDR5, I would expect this cost to drop 40-50% by end of 2015. It's also not exactly super fast by today's standards (5500mhz). I would expect a Slim or redesigned PS4 with half the GDDR5 chips and node shrunken APUs at some point.

Sony buys in much much larger volumes than companies such as MSI or EVGA.

It is quite likely that 4 GB fast GDDR5 will increase the BOM by at least $50.