So we legalize heroine and let people use it. Is that going to stop people from overdosing? From getting addicted? It's still a very dangerouse substance. The only thing legalizing it would solve is reducing the amount of crime brought about by it's outlaw. It will still kill you.
So we legalize heroine and let people use it. Is that going to stop people from overdosing? From getting addicted? It's still a very dangerouse substance. The only thing legalizing it would solve is reducing the amount of crime brought about by it's outlaw. It will still kill you.
clamum
Lifer
- Feb 13, 2003
- 26,256
- 406
- 126
No, people would still be able overdose. But they will know the exact dosage and amount of heroin they're doing, as opposed to the present where the quality of one batch can very greatly to the next. It seems that at least that would reduce the amount of overdoses. It's not like these people *want* to die of a drug overdose.
Adul
Elite Member
eh, some people would probably argue with you on that one.
but i doubt it will ever be legal. ive known some folks with heroin trouble...not a good place to be but they certainly fit into the demographic mentioned by the original poster.
Legalization serves one purpose - to stop the spiral of crime and enforcement - something that is largely to blame for the polarization of black and whites in this day and age. Legalization, however, places the burden of social health squarely on society, and this is a dangerous thing. Each drug, due its particular properties and addictive potentials, poses a different sort of possibility that society will be able to deal with it.
While nicotine is HIGHLY addictive, frequent usage does is relatively undisruptive of daily lives - people can continue to perform their jobs and go about their ways after smoking cigarettes. Marijuana, though only mildly addictive - and note that I make no distinction between physical and mental, since its irrelevant for our purposes - creates a stupor that can interfere with jobs that require extreme concentration and/or usage of complex thought process. For less exacting professions, weed poses as few concerns as smoking.
Now heroin. We have both a High addiction potential AND a debilitating stupor. The end result of a legalization would be a largescale addiction based in curiosuty which in turn would lead to a large segment of the population unable to function...
Across the Board Legalization, then, is a stroke drawn with too broad a brush......
Before we can hope to have a successful effort to legalize drugs, we must instead turn out energies to education the populace. Dropping the misinformation campaigns from groups like DARE, and instead present information as factually correct and as neutral as can be done. Only after the population themselves knows what these chemical are,a nd what they can and cant do, can a socially favorable decision by popular bemade regarding who they should be treated. Right now, we alarmist groups and conservative grops shouting their propapaganda in an uncoordinated manner, giveing the public a big mess of confused facts based on disparate agendas. The public is confused and angry and wants to know the down-low on all these things - who do they turn to? Their local drug buddy who, of course, knows all the answers....yeah right.
While nicotine is HIGHLY addictive, frequent usage does is relatively undisruptive of daily lives - people can continue to perform their jobs and go about their ways after smoking cigarettes. Marijuana, though only mildly addictive - and note that I make no distinction between physical and mental, since its irrelevant for our purposes - creates a stupor that can interfere with jobs that require extreme concentration and/or usage of complex thought process. For less exacting professions, weed poses as few concerns as smoking.
Now heroin. We have both a High addiction potential AND a debilitating stupor. The end result of a legalization would be a largescale addiction based in curiosuty which in turn would lead to a large segment of the population unable to function...
Across the Board Legalization, then, is a stroke drawn with too broad a brush......
Before we can hope to have a successful effort to legalize drugs, we must instead turn out energies to education the populace. Dropping the misinformation campaigns from groups like DARE, and instead present information as factually correct and as neutral as can be done. Only after the population themselves knows what these chemical are,a nd what they can and cant do, can a socially favorable decision by popular bemade regarding who they should be treated. Right now, we alarmist groups and conservative grops shouting their propapaganda in an uncoordinated manner, giveing the public a big mess of confused facts based on disparate agendas. The public is confused and angry and wants to know the down-low on all these things - who do they turn to? Their local drug buddy who, of course, knows all the answers....yeah right.
OrganizedChaos
Diamond Member
- Apr 21, 2002
- 4,524
- 0
- 0
instead of putting all this effort into killing drugs lets puts some effort into finding out whats driving people to prefer drugs over life and kill that. maybe? possibley? nevermind i'm just an idiot. its the drugs fault, john ashcroft says so.
And answer the man's question, that's what! You've dodged the issue for 3 seperate posts already. He says it's not a disease. By the tone of your posts you seem to think it is. Put up or shut up time, IMO. Else this is just one big frickkin' troll post.
Amnesiac said :
Based on his personal experience, he believes that if I think addiction is due to people being weak, then I have never personally dealt with the matter, and I should STFU. Based on my personal experience, I believe that it is not due to a disease, but that it is due to a personal weakness, contrary to his position. Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?
I just think he's defending amnesiac, since he accepts his post without question yet calls into question my contrary position based on the fact that I do not posess a degree in "medicine, drug addiction therapy, or psychology." I don't know. I guess it's a touchy subject.
He made the claim jackass, and not me. The burden of proof is on him and not I. Secondly, he has second hand experience, because it wasn't actually him with the "problem." Lets just say I was known to have a problem with drugs at one point and it isn't due to weakness. If anything I am a very strong person when it comes to most things, but I'd never ask two obviously well educated people such as you two to understand why people use mind-altering substances.
Yeah, it is a touchy subject, because I know people that did great in life until they touched drugs. They were not weak people. Not weak at all, but everyone has something that can possess them. We seem to think falling prey to drugs is worse that falling prey to sex(like Kobe), money, power, or any other vice that is not so clearly understood or defined. Everyone has something that could be called a vice. It doesn't mean they are weak. Weak people are the ones that don't survive in life and have never had a pitfall. That is weakness. For the record I overcame my addiction, so I am just another "weak" person that made it.
So you are omniscient on the subject because alcoholism runs in your family? That contradicts research that says it is almost purely genetic or based on sociological, physiological, and psychological factors that are out of the control of a human being. I am being told to put up or shutup, but you are the one that said it was due to weakness. Scientists and doctors disagree with you, but obviously having an alcoholic parent makes you have it all figured out. How brilliant.
killface
Golden Member
- Aug 17, 2001
- 1,416
- 0
- 0
Originally posted by: Nebor
Heroine is one of the few drugs that you can live a long and relatively healthy life with. It doesn't kill your heart like meth or coke.
Besides, it may be doing the kids some real good.
Very true.
For the record, they were slamming coke in that movie, NOT Heroin (Heroin makes pupils constrict, not dialate, plus I read somewhere that it was about coke)
Yes, certainly.
But it is a start. Like I said... the point of education is to keep people from doing the drug in the first place, and if you don't do it, you can't die. That should be the focal point, not the fact that *gasp* people could get the drug at will. They can get it at will anyway, don't you see? The only difference is that they have to pay outrageous prices for it because it is dangerous to make, posess.. it's an unconrolled, underground way for criminals to make money. The drug war empowers the criminals by making them able to make money. If the market was flooded with cheap drugs, they would almost instantly be put out of business, and instead of spending hundreds of millions of dollars fighting the drug war, the government could be making hundreds of millions of dollars and putting it towards something that would actually help, drug use education. And I'm not talking about bullsh!t like DARE.
I also agree that legalizing the hard drugs is a touchy subject, but I honestly don't know what else you're supposed to do. The commercial availability of the drug would be for people that are already addicted.
It really is no different than alcohol any way you look at it.
Originally posted by: killface
Originally posted by: Nebor
Heroine is one of the few drugs that you can live a long and relatively healthy life with. It doesn't kill your heart like meth or coke.
Besides, it may be doing the kids some real good.
Very true.
For the record, they were slamming coke in that movie, NOT Heroin (Heroin makes pupils constrict, not dialate, plus I read somewhere that it was about coke)
There was Cocaine in the movie, but the drug of choice that they were addicted to was Heroin. Go read reviews or interviews by the actor.
As for the whole disease vs. weakness thing...
I think it depends on how you look at it. Is the weakness caused by something that could be considered a disease?
You have to want to stop any addiction. That's the first step. If you can't do that, then you aren't going to be able to quit.
If something fscked up happens to you when you're a kid, and it causes you to be an addict... are you a weak person, or do you have a disease?
If you lead a realitivly normal childhood, decide to start smoking pot, become addicted, are you a weak person, or do you have a disease?
The point of the questions is to help you realize that everybody is different. Everybodys situations are different, everbody is wired differently, and the drugs effect everybody differently. The biggest mistake you can make is to paint everything black or white.
For me, the 2nd question applies. Sure, I can and have become addicted to cannabis, just like I have been addicted to coffee, mt. dew livewire, or Burger King.
Yes, quitting sucks. Yes, I experience withdrawls. So? The point is that I can realize when I need to quit, and do so. I've done it 3 times in the last 3 years, and I'm sure there will be a 4th. Therefor, I would say that I do not qualify as having a disease.
I do not know what it would be like to NOT be able to quit something, but I do believe that there are people that experience this. Who am I to say that their apparent "weakness" is not caused by some certain mix or balance(or lack thereof) of chemicals in their brain?
Open your eyes people, quit believing something and then setting it in stone.
I think it depends on how you look at it. Is the weakness caused by something that could be considered a disease?
You have to want to stop any addiction. That's the first step. If you can't do that, then you aren't going to be able to quit.
If something fscked up happens to you when you're a kid, and it causes you to be an addict... are you a weak person, or do you have a disease?
If you lead a realitivly normal childhood, decide to start smoking pot, become addicted, are you a weak person, or do you have a disease?
The point of the questions is to help you realize that everybody is different. Everybodys situations are different, everbody is wired differently, and the drugs effect everybody differently. The biggest mistake you can make is to paint everything black or white.
For me, the 2nd question applies. Sure, I can and have become addicted to cannabis, just like I have been addicted to coffee, mt. dew livewire, or Burger King.
Yes, quitting sucks. Yes, I experience withdrawls. So? The point is that I can realize when I need to quit, and do so. I've done it 3 times in the last 3 years, and I'm sure there will be a 4th. Therefor, I would say that I do not qualify as having a disease.
I do not know what it would be like to NOT be able to quit something, but I do believe that there are people that experience this. Who am I to say that their apparent "weakness" is not caused by some certain mix or balance(or lack thereof) of chemicals in their brain?
Open your eyes people, quit believing something and then setting it in stone.
They should let those kids listen to one of Bush' speeches, and tell them that's what heroin and crack does to your brain.
ecstasy isn't even on the same level as heroin, in any way, shape, or form. To draw a parallel between the two is to downplay how seriously harmful of a drug heroin is.
Yes, ecstasy can and probbably will fvck you up (in a bad way) if you use it too much.
I have a lot of friends who used to do ecstasy, some still do every now and then. Every one of them is still alive. We all lead normal lives, we work, we raise our kids if we have them, etc.
I also have a lot of friends who do heroin. I say -do- because only one of them has managed to stay off of it for any length of time, and I wouldn't be surprised if he went back on it. The only reason he's not using today is because he has a family that can afford to put him in rehab every time he fvcks up. The rest of my friends who use that sh!t don't have the little safety net. Hopefully they'll end up in jail and get some help before they end up dead. Not one of them leads anything resembling a normal life, even the sober one. They're all crippled by their addictions. The few that actually work either live with a bunch of junkies or with their parents because they can't afford to support themselves AND their addictions at the same time. The one that is sober lives with his parents because he's afraid he'll start using again if he moves out on his own. He's 28 years old.
No drug is harmless. Nothing in life really is. However comparing ecstasy to heroin is like comparing caffiene pills to crack cocaine.
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