Hero Judge Suspended

Viper1j

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2018
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Score one for the Trumpanzees.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...criticizing-trump-social-media-court-n1010331

Utah judge suspended for criticizing Trump on social media and in court

A Utah judge has been suspended for six months without pay after he made a series of critical statements about President Donald Trump online and in his courtroom over the past few years.

The Utah Supreme Court filed its court ruling this past week on Judge Michael Kwan’s actions.


Kwan, who has served as a justice court judge in Taylorsville for 20 years, was cited for “improper use of judicial authority and his inappropriate political commentary,” the latter often involving President Trump.

The court noted multiple times when Kwan had provided political comments that criticized Trump, as a presidential candidate in 2016 and as president on his Facebook page and in court.

Three days after the 2016 election, Kwan wrote on Facebook, “Think I’ll go to the shelter to adopt a cat before the President-Elect grabs them all” — a reference to the "Access Hollywood" tape in which Trump was heard bragging about grabbing women's genitals without consent.

Almost a month after Trump’s inauguration, Kwan said “welcome to the beginning of the fascist takeover” and questioned whether Congressional Republicans would be “the American Reichstag,” this time referring to the political body of Nazi Germany.

Judge Kwan defended his online commentary by stating that he had a First Amendment right to share his views about elected officials' political and social stances, calling it “constitutionally protected speech” and describing his statements as “social commentary or humor.”

In response, the ruling written by Utah Supreme Court Justice John Pearce dryly noted, “It is an immutable and universal rule that judges are not as funny as they think they are. If someone laughs at a judge’s joke, there is a decent chance that the laughter was dictated by the courtroom’s power dynamic and not by a genuine belief that the joke was funny.”



The court ruling also noted a moment in court that demonstrated the judge’s political leanings and views of the president.

When a defendant said he was praying to get a large tax return in 2017 to pay off his fines and avoid going to jail, Kwan appeared to tell the man he shouldn’t hold his breath because of President Trump.

“Prayer might be the answer,” the judge said, “’cause he just signed an order to start building the wall and he has no money to do that, and so if you think you are going to get taxes back this year, uh, yeah, maybe, maybe not. But don’t worry, there is a tax cut for the wealthy, so if you make over $500,000 you’re getting a tax cut.”

The inquiry also noted a pattern of behavior by Kwan, including a lewd statement about President Bill Clinton’s sexual history and for his involvement with a politically biased nonprofit.

Though Kwan continued to defend his use of speech, and said that his Facebook profile remained largely private, Judge Pearce and the Utah Supreme Court said the judicial office requires sacrifice.

“Fulfillment of judicial duties does not come without personal sacrifice of some opportunities and privileges available to the public at large,” Pearce wrote. “And as a person the public entrusts to decide issues with the utmost fairness, independence, and impartiality, a judge must at times set aside the power of his or her voice.”
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
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Devil's advocate for a minute.

Any judge needs to be very careful when openly embracing or dissing people in office whether it's on his or her own time or not.

The reason being that if one goes before a judge there may be a real or perceived conflict. Someone may make a comment in court or public in support of Republicans or Trump and get this judge. This also applies to reverse political ideologies and that should be taken for granted.

But-

There are degrees of sanctions AND they must be universally applied regardless of left or right. Then there is the matter of the punishment fitting the crime (yes I know this isn't a literal crime, nitpickers). Was this judge warned before? Was this something that was repeated after many directives to stop?

I don't know, but if the suspension was the first "warning" then no, this is wrong. If other like cases are treated differently then that too is wrong.

I don't know what happened here so for myself only, that's the metric I think should apply.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
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Judges don't get to have opinions other than legal ones in court. It's not easy living like that.
 

allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
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Devil's advocate for a minute.

Any judge needs to be very careful when openly embracing or dissing people in office whether it's on his or her own time or not.

Was this judge warned before? Was this something that was repeated after many directives to stop?

I don't know, but if the suspension was the first "warning" then no, this is wrong. If other like cases are treated differently then that too is wrong.

I can't read the original linked article due to my adblock, but below was what I found elsewhere:

"The court noted that it had publicly reprimanded Judge Kwan twice in the past: once, in 2005, for an explicit reference to President Clinton’s extramarital affair, and another, in 2016, for his service as president of the OCA - Asian Pacific American Advocates, a nonprofit organization that criticized political candidates.

The Utah Supreme Court said that Judge Kwan had acknowledged after those cases that a judge should not engage in activity 'inconsistent with the independence, integrity, or impartiality of the judiciary.'

'We note that previous endeavors to help Judge Kwan correct this behavior have not been successful,' the court said. 'And we regretfully conclude that a sanction less severe than suspension without pay will suffer the same fate as our prior attempts.' "
 

Viper1j

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2018
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Is this really a "critism? Or more a statement of act?

"When a defendant said he was praying to get a large tax return in 2017 to pay off his fines and avoid going to jail, Kwan appeared to tell the man he shouldn’t hold his breath because of President Trump.

“Prayer might be the answer,” the judge said, “’cause he just signed an order to start building the wall and he has no money to do that, and so if you think you are going to get taxes back this year, uh, yeah, maybe, maybe not. But don’t worry, there is a tax cut for the wealthy, so if you make over $500,000 you’re getting a tax cut.”
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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Is this really a "critism? Or more a statement of act?

"When a defendant said he was praying to get a large tax return in 2017 to pay off his fines and avoid going to jail, Kwan appeared to tell the man he shouldn’t hold his breath because of President Trump.

“Prayer might be the answer,” the judge said, “’cause he just signed an order to start building the wall and he has no money to do that, and so if you think you are going to get taxes back this year, uh, yeah, maybe, maybe not. But don’t worry, there is a tax cut for the wealthy, so if you make over $500,000 you’re getting a tax cut.”


I don't know the specifics of that case but it indicates a strong political bias which might be grounds for an appeal depending on a situation. Being a judge requires an appearance of neutrality regardless of private feelings. It's much the same with religion and holding Office. Using Obama as an example, he states he's a Christian but did not attack other religions and followed a secular agenda. If he was proposing what amounts to a theocracy then he should have been tarred and feathered, metaphorically. This judge decided that he would not fulfill his duty in like regard, and yes for this purpose politics of a judge is equivalent to religion and the Presidency.
 

FirNaTine

Senior member
Jun 6, 2005
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Public employees do have 1st Amendment rights, though they are far from absolute. Unlike a private employee, if you're punished at your job for your speech, it's the government doing so, as opposed to a private entity.

But, your rights to free speech are balanced against those of your employer's rights/needs to manage your work place.

As a supervisor for a government entity, I watch this closely as it could effect me in either giving or receiving discipline.

As a general concept, the more discretion you have over the conditions of others, the higher the standard you are held to, as perceived biases would be more damaging to effective operating of the employer. (Pickering)

This can be both a difference in job responsibilities, such that a front line child protective services employee would be held more strictly than an electrician in a municipal water department. One has much more exposure to the public, and potential impact on others lives.
But, also you see this as you climb the ranks within an agency also, as your personal opinions become more tightly associated with the department and its policies (think Chief of fire department vs a random firefighter.)

I don't think there's any position in government that needs impartiality (and strict adherence to the appearance of it), than a judge. So, they will be held to the highest standard for it, even in conduct away from the bench. Especially if they have been a judge for a while and warned before about it.

The other thing that gets him in trouble is his comments made from the bench are likely not protected at all. Because they are not his private speech, but official conduct. (Garcetti)

If I as a simple supervisor in government know all of this, do you really think he didn't?

https://www.isba.org/sections/laboremploymentlaw/newsletter/2011/12/publicemployeesandfreespeech
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,278
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Title should read "Nitwit judge suspended".
If saying stupid things is heroism, Trump should get the congressional medal of honor.
 

Viper1j

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2018
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Wanna bet if this judge was constantly praising Trump instead, he'd be completely left alone to do so?

Let's see, I can take that bet, or I can drive down the freeway throwing hundred dollars bills out the window.

Decisions decisions. After all, it IS Utah
 
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alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
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Title should read "Nitwit judge suspended".
If saying stupid things is heroism, Trump should get the congressional medal of honor.

the judge spoke the truth while Trump constantly lies.

how in the world you were able to equate the two is laughable.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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Someone who is supposed to be nonpolitical, getting harsh with delicate snowflake feels? Who does this guy think he is, Boof Kavanaugh?

Funny to see republicans have a problem with inappropriate tweets all of a sudden. I'm sure we all remember the multitudes of republicans who were incensed when Trump disparaged the Mexican American judge who presided over his Trump "University" scam hearing. It wasn't Trump's fault for wanting to cheat people out of their money, it was Gonzalo P Curiel's fault for doing his job while not being white.

This is the party of Lies, Cheating and Treason using a helpfully disagreeable judge to make PR hay during a time of unprecedented republican obstruction and corruption. His words hurt some feelings, feelings of those who support the sociopath, conman, traitor and admitted sexual predator. Same guy who is destroying our system of checks and balances and underminding faith in the judicial system, thanks to packing courts with unfit partisan sycophants.

Oh those poor, poor feels.
 
Last edited:
Mar 11, 2004
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judges are suppose to to appear unbiased and posting derogatory statements of anyone online can call into question his judgement.

If only that were true, but this is just another thing where conservatives howl when it happens against them but will openly support any that are on their side.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
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If you can't conduct yourself in a way that protects the integrity and impartiality of the judiciary maybe you shouldn't be a member, regardless of which way your inappropriate rantings lean politically.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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Wanna bet if this judge was constantly praising Trump instead, he'd be completely left alone to do so?

Since per the article one of his prior disciplinary punishments was related to “making lewd remarks about President Clinton” it doesn’t seem related to the political bent of the current comments. No way to prove a counterfactual that his punishment would be less if in alternative universe he was criticizing President Hillary Clinton instead of Trump.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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Judges don't get to have opinions other than legal ones in court. It's not easy living like that.

A good theory, but we are only human. And in this connected world no one is above the fray. No one. Everyone has opinions and bias, it's just that this Judge made his public information. Smarter Judges keep it to themselves, but still act according to their beliefs. It does not change their belief, it does not stop bias. It simply prevents us from knowing and acting on it.

The impartial concept the Judaical branch is predicated on is a massive misconception, a delusion that impartiality is even possible. One of the big structural problems in our form of government. Wish it was the only one, or even the biggest flaw.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
100,414
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A good theory, but we are only human. And in this connected world no one is above the fray. No one. Everyone has opinions and bias, it's just that this Judge made his public information. Smarter Judges keep it to themselves, but still act according to their beliefs. It does not change their belief, it does not stop bias. It simply prevents us from knowing and acting on it.

The impartial concept the Judaical branch is predicated on is a massive misconception, a delusion that impartiality is even possible. One of the big structural problems in our form of government. Wish it was the only one, or even the biggest flaw.


Not theory. That is how the judges I know all say when I ask them what they can and cannot do. Dinner convo is hard for them.
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
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Someone who is supposed to be nonpolitical, getting harsh with delicate snowflake feels? Who does this guy think he is, Boof Kavanaugh?

Funny to see republicans have a problem with inappropriate tweets all of a sudden. I'm sure we all remember the multitudes of republicans who were incensed when Trump disparaged the Mexican American judge who presided over his Trump "University" scam hearing. It wasn't Trump's fault for wanting to cheat people out of their money, it was Gonzalo P Curiel's fault for doing his job while not being white.

This is the party of Lies, Cheating and Treason using a helpfully disagreeable judge to make PR hay during a time of unprecedented republican obstruction and corruption. His words hurt some feelings, feelings of those who support the sociopath, conman, traitor and admitted sexual predator. Same guy who is destroying our system of checks and balances and underminding faith in the judicial system, thanks to packing courts with unfit partisan sycophants.

Oh those poor, poor feels.
I disagree. For those very same reasons you cite -- Trump's malicious intent directed at the Constitution, important institutions of government, and the non-partisan civil service and careerists -- this sort of thing just hurts the Resistance. Now, Trump can find another scapegoat in his constant attacks on the judiciary.

This was the advantage of having a legal scholar in the White House with Obama. I think former administration officials remembered being told that they must be squeaky clean. While Holder may have run into some trouble with a Congress of bigots and partisans, you either have to believe an extreme "fake news" scenario about Trump, or admit the difference between the Predecessor and the current scourge with so many scandals and troubles that one cannot keep track of them.

Got to hand it to Kwan, though. Utah has become more urbanized and perhaps a little less Mormon. An Asian-American judge? In Utah? Of course, some Mormons have exhibited more common sense than people like Steve King in the cornpone hinterland. Much more common sense, for that matter.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,304
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Sorry, but "hero" not found. Even though I might agree with his opinion, a judge should keep his fucking mouth shut on things like that when they're in the court room. He's there to deliver legal opinions, verdicts, and to deal with legal matters, not "speak from on high" about politics.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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I have a problem and I don't care about Republicans or Democrats in this context.

Good, but that doesn't change the fact that republicans are hypocrites devoid of credibility, especially in this context of a Trump presidency. As I said, it was inappropriate. I also take issue with the term "hero" being used. Regardless, I feel republican hypocrisy deserves a light on it whenever it happens.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,408
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I disagree. For those very same reasons you cite -- Trump's malicious intent directed at the Constitution, important institutions of government, and the non-partisan civil service and careerists -- this sort of thing just hurts the Resistance. Now, Trump can find another scapegoat in his constant attacks on the judiciary.

This was the advantage of having a legal scholar in the White House with Obama. I think former administration officials remembered being told that they must be squeaky clean. While Holder may have run into some trouble with a Congress of bigots and partisans, you either have to believe an extreme "fake news" scenario about Trump, or admit the difference between the Predecessor and the current scourge with so many scandals and troubles that one cannot keep track of them.

Got to hand it to Kwan, though. Utah has become more urbanized and perhaps a little less Mormon. An Asian-American judge? In Utah? Of course, some Mormons have exhibited more common sense than people like Steve King in the cornpone hinterland. Much more common sense, for that matter.

Well I guess I disagree with your disagreement then. I can find you examples of Trump hurting his supporters, not the Resistance, without much effort. The scapegoat thing, kinda what I meant about him being helpful to the right wing echo chamber's cause, I probably could have worded it better.

Utah is definitely less Mormon now. Remember the billboard campaign about Utah featuring non-Mormon people a few years back, and the subsequent reaction by Mormons? lol