Here's how to deal with illegal immigrants.

[techs]

For my inspiration I used Ronald Reagan. Reagan granted 3 million illegal aliens amnesty and citizenship. Every study has show they assimilated and became valuable members of American society.

My plan is to grant conditional citizenship. If you are convicted of a felony withing 10 years your citizenship is revoked and you are deported. If you go on social services for more than a year during those 10 years your citizenship is revoked and you are deported. If you can't read, write and speak English within 2 years of your citizenship your citizenship is revoked and you are deported.

Since to get citizenship you must apply, the government will take your fingerprints and you must keep the government apprised of your address and job for the first five years. Or else your citizenship is revoked.

Simple. Effective. Good for America.

 

[bfdd]

Only if you lock down the borders first, dropping the war on drugs and putting pressure on Mexico to stop the corruption. Without those three amnesty is worthless, not to mention those three aren't even tackling the entire problem. Just a MINIMUM I would accept.

 

[Carmen813]

Republicans and Democrats want the the issues with undocumented workers to stay exactly where it is, as it is beneficial to both parties.

Oh, and many undocumented workers are productive members of society. They pay taxes, including federal ones, without the opportunity to receive benefits.

This is not a simple black and white issue, as with most things.

 

[Bateluer]

Only if you lock down the borders first,

This. This is why the Reagan era Amnesty failed. They were just replaced with 10x as many.

 

[chucky2]

You are all NeoCon's for wanting to lock down the borders! NeoCon's!!!!!!

 

[Darwin333]

What about locking down the border? No plan will work until that is done.

 

[shortylickens]

Yes, he granted amnesty and that sent a clear message: Go ahead and flood the gates, we obviously wont do anything to you.

 

[MotF Bane]

Republicans and Democrats want the the issues with undocumented workers to stay exactly where it is, as it is beneficial to both parties.

Oh, and many undocumented workers are productive members of society. They pay taxes, including federal ones, without the opportunity to receive benefits.

This is not a simple black and white issue, as with most things.

Come on. And how many of them get paid under the table in cash? How many of them use hospitals they'll never pay for?

 

[Infohawk]

Sure, Texas and California are doing much better than they were in the 70s and 80s.

Every study has show they assimilated and became valuable members of American society.

What studies are those? I doubt they make such value-laden conclusions. If they do, they are unlikely to be reputable journals.

 

[Steeplerot]

Yes, he granted amnesty and that sent a clear message: Go ahead and flood the gates, we obviously wont do anything to you.

That was NAFTA in the mid 90s that opened the floodgate, not Reagan, but Bush sr.

 

[shortylickens]

That was NAFTA in the mid 90s that opened the floodgate, not Reagan, but Bush sr.

No, Reagan let them stay before NAFTA even existed.

 

[manimal]

How dare you guys impune the character of the supreme being Reagan the white....

 

[Steeplerot]

No, Reagan let them stay before NAFTA even existed.

Nafta was over 10+ years later the Reagan "wave" of Amnesty receivers.

The migration had slowed until we started economically carpet-bombing them in the mid 90s with NAFTA. Now there are whole Mexican states of former sustenance farmers displaced from their ancestral farms all over Mexico (and up here where there livelihoods went)

 

[Slew Foot]

Id be willing to take one hard working mexican for a citizen if we can in exchange toss one welfare leech back over the border to Mexico.

 

[ShawnD1]

For my inspiration I used Ronald Reagan. Reagan granted 3 million illegal aliens amnesty and citizenship. Every study has show they assimilated and became valuable members of American society.

The most amazing thing about this is how increasing the population of a city has absolutely no effect on land prices. For example, did you know that a house in Denver is exactly the same price as a house in New York? Like intuitively I would think that millions of people flocking to the southern US would have some effect on land prices or traffic but it just hasn't happened. Illegal immigration :thumbsup:

 

[nobodyknows]

Nafta was over 10+ years later the Reagan "wave" of Amnesty receivers.

The migration had slowed until we started economically carpet-bombing them in the mid 90s with NAFTA. Now there are whole Mexican states of former sustenance farmers displaced from their ancestral farms all over Mexico (and up here where there livelihoods went)

Can you be any more daft?? Do you even know what sustenance farming is? Let me help you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsistence_agriculture

Subsistence agriculture is self-sufficiency farming in which the farmers focus on growing enough food to feed their families. The typical subsistence farm has a range of crops and animals needed by the family to eat during the year. Planting decisions are made with an eye toward what the family will need during the coming year, rather than market prices. Tony Waters[1] writes: "Subsistence peasants are people who grow what they eat, build their own houses, and live without regularly making purchases in the marketplace."

So explain just how the hell NAFTA made any difference to sustenance farmers. Seriously, you're full of crap.... as usual.

 

[Steeplerot]

No, Reagan let them stay before NAFTA even existed.

We are speaking of 2 groups of migrants. The tide we are dealing with today after the Reagan Amnesty lull begin in the start of the NAFTA era in the 90s, The Reagan 80s group of migrants were mainly folks who had ties from families from way back in CA. (which is why as a Californian Reagan knew of their plight and gave them amnesty - about the only thing Reagan did right for California)

What we are dealing with now since the mid 90s massive rush are mainly displaced subsentence farmers from Oaxaca -and some other states after NAFTA dumped our cheap corn on them, they then spread all over Mexico and north. The reason you hear about all these folks sending money back is because it is the only way to keep their ancestral farms afloat now that the native corn there is worth almost nothing.

Isn't capitalism great? Or neo-liberalism if you want to get technical.

The corporate media if you listen to them make it out like millions of folks just decided to up and leave their homes they have had for 100s of years and just up and become criminals (with their children in their arms) on the run from the law because they were bored or something. Shameless half-stories covering for the big agribusiness. When people start question big farm industry here what was the corporate media's answer? Blame the victim to uphold the almighty $, even better scare the shit out of the ignorant whites into thinking the refugees (which is what they are) are dirty or unclean or just plain brown scary people. The whole run around about businesses here shadily keeping the flow of migrants for dishwashing or bean picking is only a superficial symptom of the real problem, big agribusiness PR smoke and mirrors.

Good luck on hearing the stories of the people themselves and why they would take such drastic actions to protect their families.

What would it take for YOU to make you and your family criminals living on the run to survive?

Reason nothing will get done about this is not because of some dude with a underwear factory employing a few dozen workers without papers. Or a taco bell with a undocumented cashier. If you want to get to the root of the border problem once and for all take a look at monsato and friends and what they are actually up to down there.

 

[nobodyknows]

The reason you hear about all these folks sending money back is because it is the only way to keep their ancestral farms afloat now that the native corn there is worth almost nothing.

LOL, I just checked the local corn market the other day and corn was at an all time high, $7/bushel.

 

[nobodyknows]

Id be willing to take one hard working mexican for a citizen if we can in exchange toss one welfare leech back over the border to Mexico.

How about you just move to Mexico. Problem solved.

 

[Slew Foot]

How about you just move to Mexico. Problem solved.

Im a productive member of society. You? Not so much, find another country to leech off of.

 

[nobodyknows]

Im a productive member of society. You? Not so much, find another country to leech off of.

LOL!! Good idea, let's save some time and jump right to the personal insults,

Fuck off asshole, you don't know squat about what I've done in my lifetime so stuff it down your ignorant piehole. I've done more productive work in my lifetime by accident then you will ever manage to do on purpose.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

The most amazing thing about this is how increasing the population of a city has absolutely no effect on land prices. For example, did you know that a house in Denver is exactly the same price as a house in New York? Like intuitively I would think that millions of people flocking to the southern US would have some effect on land prices or traffic but it just hasn't happened. Illegal immigration :thumbsup:

Seriously? The price of comparable houses in comparable neighborhoods are the same in Denver as in the New York City area? You were referring to the New York City area, right?

(I don't know, I just find it very hard to believe that the NYC house would be the same price as a comparable Denver house.)

 

[xj0hnx]

The reason you hear about all these folks sending money back is because it is the only way to keep their ancestral farms afloat now that the native corn there is worth almost nothing.

Where do you come up with this bullshit?

 

[Steeplerot]

Where do you come up with this bullshit?

This stuff has been common knowledge since the 90s, it was liberals big beef with Clinton back then. Where have you been?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism welcome to 1997

 

[ShawnD1]

Seriously? The price of comparable houses in comparable neighborhoods are the same in Denver as in the New York City area? You were referring to the New York City area, right?

(I don't know, I just find it very hard to believe that the NYC house would be the same price as a comparable Denver house.)

My point is that population has a devastating effect on land price. People who would normally be considered middle class are suddenly lower class.

Let's forget about Mexicans and just look at an example in Canada. One might argue that the areas with the most expensive land would be the ones with the highest median income, true? No, not true. Top 3 highest income cities in Canada are 1-Calgary, 2-Edmonton, then 3-Ottawa. The most expensive cities to buy a house are 1-Vancouver, 2-Victoria, and 3-Toronto. Since it's not income that is driving prices, what could it be? Population density of those 3 wealthiest cities are 1,360.2/km, 1,067.2/km, and 292.3/km (damn that's low). Population density in the 3 most expensive cities are: 5,335/km, 4,196.9/km, 3,972/km.

Well damn, look at that. The 3 wealthiest cities do not have the most expensive land. The ones with the most expensive land are perfectly arranged in order of population density! No shit!

So what do we learn from this? The lesson here is that packing more people into your city will make you poor. Not because your wage drops or because mexicans are going to stab you but because of the simple fact that more people = higher demand. A condemned crack house in Vancouver is worth over half a million dollars. That's all population density driving that, and the average income in that shit hole city is still around the $40,000 mark. Do you want your city to look like that? If there's a huge population growth, that's exactly what will happen. It's not because they're mexican or because they are illegal, but because they are humans. More humans = super expensive land that nobody can afford.