here we go! Wisconsin recount is happening

[Ackmed]

Did you have a point to your post?

 

[jackstar7]

Did you have a point to your post?

Just my usual refrain: pride in one's heritage is desperate, at best.

Also, I am tired.

 

[brycejones]

Oh bull crap.

Obviously you have no idea how much labor was saved by the introduction of the cotton gin.

You have been brainwashed into thinking only about "slavery". That is my entire point why it makes very little sense to waste my time attempting to explain it to you simpletons. All you want is to bring every good point back around to "slavery". Like the insults from the Sheik above. No one is defending slavery and he has to put in his little insult the same as you. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

Oh bull crap is right but not in the way you think. The cotton gin enabled plantation owners to process large amounts of cotton. Before it wasn't a very profitable crop because of the number of slaves that were needed to clean the seeds from the cotton by hand. So it was planted in fairly small quantities. After the invention of the gin the most expensive part of the process was orders of magnitude more efficient. Cotton suddenly became very profitable and plantation owners imported more slaves so they could grow more cotton. Hence the cotton gin did more to continue and expand slavery and the slave population than any other single event.

Learn some history and something about how economics influenced that history before you spout off. Now I don't believe the Ely Whitney expected his invention to have that effect but that is the effect it had. History is good and bad deal with it. This is shit you should have learned in a high school history class.

 

[Ackmed]

Just my usual refrain: pride in one's heritage is desperate, at best.

Also, I am tired.

So you have no point, ok. I refuted (along with others) someone's silly comment. You come out of left field, trying to take a shot at me at look silly yourself. Good attempt at trolling, you failed miserably though.

 

[jackstar7]

So you have no point, ok. I refuted (along with others) someone's silly comment. You come out of left field, trying to take a shot at me at look silly yourself. Good attempt at trolling, you failed miserably though.

It's okay snowflake, I wasn't trying to make a victim of you.

Just pointing out that where a thing happens has little to do with who does the thing... but carry on.

 

[MrSquished]

More short slighted views and ignorance. Start to finish of your post. Where do you think that nuclear bombs were developed and made that stopped WWII? Manhattan Project, perhaps you've heard of it. Somewhere in east Tennessee. But you're right, not nearly as complicated as motion pictures.

The Manhattan project was based at the Los Alamos Laboratories, which were run by a University of California University. That's in New Mexico. Reading through the scientists crucial in the development of the bomb, they were mostly from Northeast, Chicago or California universities. When they wanted to build a plant to run some tests they chose Tennessee, because "where the Tennessee Valley Authority could supply ample electric power and the rivers could provide cooling water for the reactors"

 

[Ackmed]

It's okay snowflake, I wasn't trying to make a victim of you.

Just pointing out that where a thing happens has little to do with who does the thing... but carry on.

I never claimed to be a victim, but keep going. You're just rambling now.

The Manhattan project was based at the Los Alamos Laboratories, which were run by a University of California University. That's in New Mexico. Reading through the scientists crucial in the development of the bomb, they were mostly from Northeast, Chicago or California universities. When they wanted to build a plant to run some tests they chose Tennessee, because "where the Tennessee Valley Authority could supply ample electric power and the rivers could provide cooling water for the reactors"

And where were the two nukes built that were dropped on Japan to end the war? Tennessee. I don't know why you can't admit your comment wasn't based on facts and was silly. Trying to argue that the South has nothing to contribute is just dumb.

And actually, HQ of Manhattan project was in Tennessee also. Along with as I said, making the actual bombs. But stopping WWII must not be very important.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project

But you obviously have a bias or else you wouldn't have made your original incorrect statement. I'm not going to go back and forth about it. You've already made up your mind that the south has never contributed anything and is worthless. At least that's the vibe you're giving off.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Please give an example. Or more than one, so that I know I understand what you mean.

My guess is still no pride for heritage...but we'll see!

If we are defining heritage as the passing of traditions, then for those who served in the military, the traditions of discipline, courage, selfless service and honor can instill attributes in a person that can help them accomplish things later in life.

If we are talking about cultural heritage, then for many immigrants, a heritage of hard work and even stubborness enabled many to accomplish greatness.

 

[pcgeek11]

Oh bull crap is right but not in the way you think. The cotton gin enabled plantation owners to process large amounts of cotton. Before it wasn't a very profitable crop because of the number of slaves that were needed to clean the seeds from the cotton by hand. So it was planted in fairly small quantities. After the invention of the gin the most expensive part of the process was orders of magnitude more efficient. Cotton suddenly became very profitable and plantation owners imported more slaves so they could grow more cotton. Hence the cotton gin did more to continue and expand slavery and the slave population than any other single event.

Learn some history and something about how economics influenced that history before you spout off. Now I don't believe the Ely Whitney expected his invention to have that effect but that is the effect it had. History is good and bad deal with it. This is shit you should have learned in a high school history class.

Oh Lawd everything ties back to slavery... Bull Shit.

You guys are hopelessly trapped in that quagmire.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Oh Lawd everything ties back to slavery... Bull Shit.

You guys are hopelessly trapped in that quagmire.

As an aside...look at how they dishonestly framed their hero (Alexander Hamilton) and the fact that he was a slave owner. This is hilarious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Hamilton

On slavery
Main article: Alexander Hamilton and slavery
See also: New York Manumission Society
Hamilton was active during the Revolution in trying to raise black troops for the army, with the promise of freedom. At a time when most white leaders doubted the capacity of blacks, Hamilton believed slavery was morally wrong and wrote, "their natural faculties are as good as ours."[163] In 1785 he followed the lead of his close associate John Jay in founding the New-York Society for Promoting the Manumission of Slaves, and Protecting Such of Them as Have Been, or May be Liberated., the main anti-slavery organization in New York. It successfully promoting the abolition of the international slave trade in New York City and (shortly after his death) passed a state law to end slavery in New York and gradually free its slaves. In the 1780s and 1790s he generally opposed pro-slavery southern interests. However he did occasionally purchase or sell domestic servants.[164]

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Back and forth about the history of slavery.

Break it down from a constitutional point of view as opposed to the traditional economics. That is, it has a dimension of "Constitutional Economics".

It was a collision between the notion of property rights and an idea of human rights.

Fast forward, while following the back and forth of history. There has always been an ebb and flow over these notions. Today, it rears up as Citizens United and the reaction to it. You find it in discussions about progressive taxation versus flat taxation. It is part of the issue surrounding environmental regulation, balancing the rights of private property versus a notion of collective property and collective health or well-being. Or should you be allowed to impose the costs of your profitable production on everyone else so that they don't figure into your bottom-line?

 

[norseamd]

More short slighted views and ignorance. Start to finish of your post. Where do you think that nuclear bombs were developed and made that stopped WWII? Manhattan Project, perhaps you've heard of it. Somewhere in east Tennessee. But you're right, not nearly as complicated as motion pictures.

Speaking of short sighted views and ignorance, IIRC most of the work on the Manhatten Project was done in the Southwestern deserts.

 

[norseamd]

As an aside...look at how they dishonestly framed their hero (Alexander Hamilton) and the fact that he was a slave owner. This is hilarious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Hamilton

On slavery
Main article: Alexander Hamilton and slavery
See also: New York Manumission Society
Hamilton was active during the Revolution in trying to raise black troops for the army, with the promise of freedom. At a time when most white leaders doubted the capacity of blacks, Hamilton believed slavery was morally wrong and wrote, "their natural faculties are as good as ours."[163] In 1785 he followed the lead of his close associate John Jay in founding the New-York Society for Promoting the Manumission of Slaves, and Protecting Such of Them as Have Been, or May be Liberated., the main anti-slavery organization in New York. It successfully promoting the abolition of the international slave trade in New York City and (shortly after his death) passed a state law to end slavery in New York and gradually free its slaves. In the 1780s and 1790s he generally opposed pro-slavery southern interests. However he did occasionally purchase or sell domestic servants.[164]

Many if not most of the Founding Fathers were slave owners that did engage in the practice of slavery, but seem to have been ultimately philosophically and morally uncomfortable, and some even vehemently against, the institution of slavery existing. Both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson freed most of their slaves in their wills.

 

[jackstar7]

If we are defining heritage as the passing of traditions, then for those who served in the military, the traditions of discipline, courage, selfless service and honor can instill attributes in a person that can help them accomplish things later in life.

If we are talking about cultural heritage, then for many immigrants, a heritage of hard work and even stubborness enabled many to accomplish greatness.

Except each individual has to choose to adopt those things. If they are instilled without consciousness or cognition, then the person is just following programming... so do you take pride in the programming?

Your examples haven't convinced me there is a reason to take pride in either of those examples. I suppose there are people who can be proud of establishing those systems and programming, but I'm not sure how someone just participating within those systems really warrants taking pride. If they do choose it, then they are taking pride in their accomplishments, which still fits in my criteria.

 

[jackstar7]

I never claimed to be a victim, but keep going. You're just rambling now.

Awww, cupcake, you said you thought I was taking a shot at you or trolling you. It wasn't happening, but that's how you took it. So yeah, victim-hood seems like your usual neighborhood.

 

[brycejones]

Oh Lawd everything ties back to slavery... Bull Shit.

You guys are hopelessly trapped in that quagmire.

LOL, ok I just provided you with the historical context of the cotton gin and its impact. You want to dismiss the impact of it that is on you. I'm not trapped in anything I just happen to be able to accept that historically advances have positive and negative impacts for some reason you can't handle that. Must be a lack of intellectual maturity on your part.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Day 5 in Wisconsin. Overall Trump is up 26 votes. The denial remains strong.

http://heavy.com/news/2016/12/wisco...-numbers-update-latest-new-status-rules-laws/

 

[werepossum]

As an aside...look at how they dishonestly framed their hero (Alexander Hamilton) and the fact that he was a slave owner. This is hilarious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Hamilton

On slavery
Main article: Alexander Hamilton and slavery
See also: New York Manumission Society
Hamilton was active during the Revolution in trying to raise black troops for the army, with the promise of freedom. At a time when most white leaders doubted the capacity of blacks, Hamilton believed slavery was morally wrong and wrote, "their natural faculties are as good as ours."[163] In 1785 he followed the lead of his close associate John Jay in founding the New-York Society for Promoting the Manumission of Slaves, and Protecting Such of Them as Have Been, or May be Liberated., the main anti-slavery organization in New York. It successfully promoting the abolition of the international slave trade in New York City and (shortly after his death) passed a state law to end slavery in New York and gradually free its slaves. In the 1780s and 1790s he generally opposed pro-slavery southern interests. However he did occasionally purchase or sell domestic servants.[164]

lol Our first proggie. Slavery is a horrible evil, but since I'm fighting it, it's okay for me to do it. I wonder if he's related to Algore . . .

 

[Starbuck1975]

Except each individual has to choose to adopt those things. If they are instilled without consciousness or cognition, then the person is just following programming... so do you take pride in the programming?

Your examples haven't convinced me there is a reason to take pride in either of those examples. I suppose there are people who can be proud of establishing those systems and programming, but I'm not sure how someone just participating within those systems really warrants taking pride. If they do choose it, then they are taking pride in their accomplishments, which still fits in my criteria.

If someone cognitively and deliberatrly chooses to adopt an aspect of their herotage, and then can attribute success to that adoption, I see nothing wrong with recognizing heritage even if only as a sign of respect.

We all make these decisions everyday and are very much the products of our respective heritages. Some cultures even celebrate heritage as a source of strength and spiritual guidance. In the corporate world, we call it tribal knowledge or best practices. The whole notion of apprenticeship. Alumni organizations. Sports teams. Heritage is very much a recurring theme and intertwined both with the notion of individual and collective achievement.

Maybe we are simply approaching the topic from different vantage points. I attribute much of my modest success to those who came before me and what I learned from them.

Or you are just dismissing the topic because you equate southern pride as dog whistle white supremacy. In some cases it is, but I know many southerners who are rightfully proud of their heritage as something distinct and different from the Confederacy.

 

[JSt0rm]

Tennessee = the shithole the smart guys put the test nuke place in because of its geography.

modern conservatives - "Tennessee is the reason ww2 ended"

 

[norseamd]

lol Our first proggie. Slavery is a horrible evil, but since I'm fighting it, it's okay for me to do it. I wonder if he's related to Algore . . .

And what do you have to say about George Washington, John Adams, John Adams Jr., Samuel Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and Benjamin Franklin?

 

[bshole]

lol Our first proggie. Slavery is a horrible evil, but since I'm fighting it, it's okay for me to do it. I wonder if he's related to Algore . . .

He was a product of his time. I think he may be the founding father who had the largest and longest impact on America.

He was an influential interpreter and promoter of the U.S. Constitution, as well as the founder of the nation's financial system, the Federalist Party, the United States Coast Guard, and The New York Post newspaper. As the first Secretary of the Treasury, Hamilton was the main author of the economic policies of the George Washington administration. He took the lead in the funding of the states' debts by the Federal government, as well as the establishment of a national bank, a system of tariffs, and friendly trade relations with Britain. His vision included a strong central government led by a vigorous executive branch, a strong commercial economy, with a national bank and support for manufacturing, plus a strong military.

 

[jackstar7]

If someone cognitively and deliberatrly chooses to adopt an aspect of their herotage, and then can attribute success to that adoption, I see nothing wrong with recognizing heritage even if only as a sign of respect.

We all make these decisions everyday and are very much the products of our respective heritages. Some cultures even celebrate heritage as a source of strength and spiritual guidance. In the corporate world, we call it tribal knowledge or best practices. The whole notion of apprenticeship. Alumni organizations. Sports teams. Heritage is very much a recurring theme and intertwined both with the notion of individual and collective achievement.

Maybe we are simply approaching the topic from different vantage points. I attribute much of my modest success to those who came before me and what I learned from them.

Or you are just dismissing the topic because you equate southern pride as dog whistle white supremacy. In some cases it is, but I know many southerners who are rightfully proud of their heritage as something distinct and different from the Confederacy.

I think respect and pride are VERY different things. Are you saying they are the same?

Heritage is certainly not something without value. I'm not saying it is valueless. I am saying you cannot have pride in it. Pride is for accomplishments. Anything else is out of your control and therefore ineligible for pride.

 

[norseamd]

Tennessee = the shithole the smart guys put the test nuke place in because of its geography.

modern conservatives - "Tennessee is the reason ww2 ended"

They didnt do any testing of nuclear weapons in Tennessee, that would have been an absolutely horrendous idea. If they had done that, the entire Tennessee River, and the downstream lengths of the Ohio River and Mississippi River would have been completely contaminated with radiation. They did a lot of preliminary work and manufacturing of nuclear materials in Tennessee, because it was remote, yet very accessible to railroads.

Oh, and who did all that work? The federal government of course. And Im sure those workers working for the federal government came from all across the country. And in fact, the local government had a lot of tension with the federal government over the project. So no, the South didnt do shit when it came to developing American nuclear weapons.

Furthermore, I dont even know why we are talking about Tennessee like they are Southern, most of the South hates them and doesnt consider them Southern anyways. Not saying thats Tennessees fault, but neither Tennessee or Kentucky seem to be considered Southern by the Deep South states.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I think respect and pride are VERY different things. Are you saying they are the same?

Heritage is certainly not something without value. I'm not saying it is valueless. I am saying you cannot have pride in it. Pride is for accomplishments. Anything else is out of your control and therefore ineligible for pride.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with your definition of pride, but this is how Mr Google defines it:

"A feeling or deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from one's own achievements, the achievements of those with whom one is closely associated, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired."

I think pride in heritage fits under that definition. Unless I am completely wrong and you were talking about lions.