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Here are the right and wrong ways to exercise your rights

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z1ggy said:
I believe if you open carry and somebody calls the cops on you, that's disturbing the peace.. Even if you legally are carrying openly. It's like if you play your music at 1dB under the noise limit (if your state/town had one) and your neighbor calls the cops on you. They are going to give you at least show up to your house and question you.
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No cop is going to arrest you or write you a ticket for ALMOST breaking the law - and if they do, the judge will toss it.

Sure, the cops are going to try to persuade you not to break the law, and I'm okay with that.
 
waggy said:
wtf. both of you are so wrong its insane.
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http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/disturbing-the-peace.html

Disturbing the peace, also known as breach of the peace, is a criminal offense that occurs when a person engages in some form of disorderly conduct, such as fighting or threatening to fight in public, causing excessively loud noise, by shouting, playing loud music, or even allowing a dog to bark for prolonged periods of time. When a person's words or conduct jeopardizes others right to peace and tranquility, he or she may be charged with disturbing the peace.

.....

Disturbing the peace laws vary from state to state. Generally, disturbing the peace refers to words or conduct that compromises the safety, health, morals or overall peace and quiet of the public.
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So, if you carry openly in a liberal state (CT) and soccer mom sees and called the police on you..That's enough grounds for them to harrass you.
 
I honestly don't think I have ever seen people argue that a local "disturbing the peace" nonsense law can override the BoR.

I mean...they are acting as if it is fact....as if it is possible for that to happen.

Good god
 
z1ggy said:
Maybe the older, more experienced ones.

There is a local cop who told me on the day I got my carry permit that I HAD to carry it concealed. I knew he was wrong, but I didn't say anything because I wasn't looking for trouble.
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There are 2 schools of thought on this:

1) Open carry is legal, so you can do it
2) Open carry is legal but not worth the hassle since I can carry concealed

I go with the 2nd group. The way our law is written, I can open carry pretty much anywhere I want to since I have a CPL. I can carry in gun free zones if I open carry. I have not and don't plan to try that out. I carry concealed because I want to have the element of surprise. I really don't like talking to cops, especially anti-gun cops. So I choose not to put myself in a situation where that might happen.

You are correct though; having a concealed carry license doesn't bar you from open carrying. You sound a lot like me in that you don't see the point of drawing attention to yourself.

People choose to exercise their rights in different ways. I don't judge them for that. I do judge people who don't take the time to find out their rights. I also judge people who cave to police and give up their rights because they are scared of the big bad cop. I also judge people who don't know how to act and give cops an attitude for just doing their jobs.
 
OCGuy said:
I honestly don't think I have ever seen people argue that a local "disturbing the peace" nonsense law can override the BoR.

I mean...they are acting as if it is fact....as if it is possible for that to happen.

Good god
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Anything is possible until there is case law. Michigan doesn't have much case law since our CPL law is so new. Up until just a couple years ago, open carry was handled differently in each town and county. Finally the State Police put out a bulletin that Michigan does not have a law against open carry and citizens should not be stopped solely for open carrying.

However if some Brady cop decides you are disturbing the peace or disorderly, you get a chance to make case law. My lawyer offers a $5/hour discount if you make case law 🙂
 
rudeguy said:
Anything is possible until there is case law. Michigan doesn't have much case law since our CPL law is so new. Up until just a couple years ago, open carry was handled differently in each town and county. Finally the State Police put out a bulletin that Michigan does not have a law against open carry and citizens should not be stopped solely for open carrying.

However if some Brady cop decides you are disturbing the peace or disorderly, you get a chance to make case law. My lawyer offers a $5/hour discount if you make case law 🙂
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There is already case law for a firearm being the only reason someone is detained.

States are putting constitutional amendments in to squash all the local overriding of firearms laws (other than negligent discharge), which is a great idea.

Check out the video I posted if you haven't seen it, the rookie cop gets a lesson.
 
VtPC83 said:
? I am confused by your video, it is a police officer illegally harassing an OCer. Who says the guy in the video in the OP wasn't stopped because someone called reporting a man with a gun in a neighborhood? That could be interpreted as disturbing the peace.

Reasonable is a very grey term, it can mean a lot to a lot of people. Unfortunately this is an issue I agree but it is still there.

I think you folks are misunderstanding my stance on this. I am not against OC. I am not against guns. I am not against standing up for your rights. I am against idiots who do it irresponsibly. The guy in the video in the OP should not be the model of defending your rights.
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Except you haven't offered any reason that what he did was "irresponsible". Since the video starts just after he's contacted by a police officer, we don't know what happened before recording begins. He may have been on his way to the store, or on his way home from a friend's house.

The only reason you've offered is that other people might be "apprehensive".
 
OCGuy said:
I honestly don't think I have ever seen people argue that a local "disturbing the peace" nonsense law can override the BoR.

I mean...they are acting as if it is fact....as if it is possible for that to happen.

Good god
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BoR doesn't give you the right to violate someones peace...sorry. No "fighting words" or yelling fire in a movie theater, remember?

But yeah it's a bullshit law....however the bullshit law exists :\

A GOOD cop will see through the bullshit and call it what it is. An amateur cop would go ahead and make the arrest based on flimsy evidence (which you can legally do, you only need to be 51% sure a crime was committed and typically a victims testimony will suffice), and then let the courts figure it out or throw it out.

I could argue for days on what probable cause means, what it means to do this, that , etc.

Bottom line is it's a big gray area and if you think common sense would rule, you would be wrong 😉
 
No..you don't get it. It doesn't work like that.

Oh nevermind.

Edit: I should say you are actually correct, that a cop can arrest anyone for basically any vague law like that. That is not specific to firearms and their watch commander would usually come stop it from happening.

And a DA would never touch it.
 
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OCGuy said:
I honestly don't think I have ever seen people argue that a local "disturbing the peace" nonsense law can override the BoR.

I mean...they are acting as if it is fact....as if it is possible for that to happen.

Good god
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actually it rather scary that people think that way.
 
sixone said:
Except you haven't offered any reason that what he did was "irresponsible". Since the video starts just after he's contacted by a police officer, we don't know what happened before recording begins. He may have been on his way to the store, or on his way home from a friend's house.

The only reason you've offered is that other people might be "apprehensive".
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You are right, there is no way to know what happened before the police showed up. Given the way the guy speaks and acts towards police my suspicion (and it is only that, same as yours) is that he was out looking to get into some kind of altercation to defend his rights.

The guy should not be a model of how to defend your rights. There are others out there who do a better job and do it in a more responsible fashion.

EDIT- I also find it irresponsible to carry a long arm down a sidewalk to a store or from a friends house. It should be in a case/bag.
 
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mizzou said:
BoR doesn't give you the right to violate someones peace...sorry. No "fighting words" or yelling fire in a movie theater, remember?

But yeah it's a bullshit law....however the bullshit law exists :\

A GOOD cop will see through the bullshit and call it what it is. An amateur cop would go ahead and make the arrest based on flimsy evidence (which you can legally do, you only need to be 51% sure a crime was committed and typically a victims testimony will suffice), and then let the courts figure it out or throw it out.

I could argue for days on what probable cause means, what it means to do this, that , etc.

Bottom line is it's a big gray area and if you think common sense would rule, you would be wrong 😉
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People have been harassed and the person being harassed got money for it.
Here's 1 and I know of a couple times it has happened in VA as well.
http://www.alamogordonews.com/ci_13441455
 
VtPC83 said:
You are right, there is no way to know what happened before the police showed up. Given the way the guy speaks and acts towards police my suspicion (and it is only that, same as yours) is that he was out looking to get into some kind of altercation to defend his rights.

The guy should not be a model of how to defend your rights. There are others out there who do a better job and do it in a more responsible fashion.
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What, in your mind, is a "more responsible fashion"?
 
Added an edit-

EDIT- I also find it irresponsible to carry a long arm down a sidewalk to a store or from a friends house. It should be in a case/bag
 
VtPC83 said:
Added an edit-

EDIT- I also find it irresponsible to carry a long arm down a sidewalk to a store or from a friends house. It should be in a case/bag
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Then it might be considered to be concealed. Do you require big orange letters that say "THERE'S A GUN IN HERE"?
 
There is another thing about open carry.
In the wrong place it makes you a target, the gun has a high value and don't think for a minute you can get it out in time if the right criminal wants your gun and has the jump on you. On the other hand, carrying concealed provides you the same security without the downside. Food for thought.
 
rudeguy said:
I think it should be illegal for it to be illegal to wear an orange shirt.

shirtception!
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I think it should be illegal to call for calling those calling for shirts to be illegal (no matter the color of shirt! we shall be free..or something)
 
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