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Here’s how you school climate deniers: The anti-science movement’s biggest fallacies,

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Saw that yesterday. Sounds about right, if you cannot prove your assertion, throw the deniers in jail. Seem to recall something similar a few hundred years ago.......:sneaky:

Where does that say they want to throw the deniers in jail? The people orchestrating the misinformation campaign maybe, but not deniers in general.
 
I learn towards thinking we've experienced say, at most 0.2c of warming by increasing CO2 from 300-400ppm. I expect around 0.6c of warming when we double CO2 from 300-600ppm.

I do not expect it'll be run-away with 2-4c.

Care to share your global energy balance with us?
 
This is entertaining as well.

The fossil-fuel industry’s campaign to mislead the American people
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...a2c448-0574-11e5-8bda-c7b4e9a8f7ac_story.html

That is a bad article. If you take out the tobacco discussion then the real meat is only two paragraphs. Then at the end the author completely steps away from everything they wrote by saying:

I don’t know whether the fossil fuel industry and its allies engaged in the same kind of racketeering activity as the tobacco industry.

🙄

FWIW, this post is not directed at you at all. I dislike articles like those that have nothing of substance.
 
That is a bad article. If you take out the tobacco discussion then the real meat is only two paragraphs. Then at the end the author completely steps away from everything they wrote by saying:



🙄

FWIW, this post is not directed at you at all. I dislike articles like those that have nothing of substance.

While I agree with you, a person would have to be a complete fool to think the same thing isn't happening again with the climate change "debate." Same as tobacco. Same as leaded gas. People never learn.
 
While I agree with you, a person would have to be a complete fool to think the same thing isn't happening again with the climate change "debate." Same as tobacco. Same as leaded gas. People never learn.
So, you're actually advocating a RICO investigation?
 
So, you're actually advocating a RICO investigation?
Nowhere did I say that. I just said you are extremely stupid if you think the same thing isn't happening. Just as gullible as a person can get. Really, so stupid you are a danger to the rest of humanity. An absolute liability. You make the world a worse place for everyone. This one thing would override any possible redeeming qualities you might have.
 
While I agree with you, a person would have to be a complete fool to think the same thing isn't happening again with the climate change "debate." Same as tobacco. Same as leaded gas. People never learn.

Sure, I think there was something going on, but when its being reported by a journalist then I'd hope there would be more than a history lesson on big tobacco. 🙂 I was ready for some juicy information and left with nothing.
 
Sure, I think there was something going on, but when its being reported by a journalist then I'd hope there would be more than a history lesson on big tobacco. 🙂 I was ready for some juicy information and left with nothing.
Me too, but it's just an opinion piece.
 
Nowhere did I say that. I just said you are extremely stupid if you think the same thing isn't happening. Just as gullible as a person can get. Really, so stupid you are a danger to the rest of humanity. An absolute liability. You make the world a worse place for everyone. This one thing would override any possible redeeming qualities you might have.
Yikes! lol
 
Found this in some lunch time reading today.

1. The Deniers: this is the mostly conservative elements that the far left likes to tar all skeptics with. Believe that there is little or no CO2 warming.
2. The “True Skeptics”. Don’t know how much CO2 forcing is but believe that the warmers haven’t made their case. Believe there is some warming with the minimum of the IPCC estimates as a ceiling (maximum) to the actual warming.
3. Global warmers and pseudo-skeptics. Believe the actual forcing and future CO2 levels are within the range of the IPCC estimates.
4. CAGW (Cult of anthropomorphic global warming).
These folks have drank the Kool Aid and believe disaster is coming.


It seems most pro warmers here fall in number 4. A few anti warmers in 1 while I and most others on the skeptical side in 2. Might be some 3 but haven't, based on anonymous Internet blog responses, seen any but 1 or 2 I would place there.
 
Where does that say they want to throw the deniers in jail? The people orchestrating the misinformation campaign maybe, but not deniers in general.

I was taking it to an extreme to make a point. However, it appears I did so badly. But perhaps not. Why would anyone be thrown in jail for this? How can you can prove there is an orchestrated misinformation campaign?
 
Found this in some lunch time reading today.

1. The Deniers: this is the mostly conservative elements that the far left likes to tar all skeptics with. Believe that there is little or no CO2 warming.
2. The “True Skeptics”. Don’t know how much CO2 forcing is but believe that the warmers haven’t made their case. Believe there is some warming with the minimum of the IPCC estimates as a ceiling (maximum) to the actual warming.
3. Global warmers and pseudo-skeptics. Believe the actual forcing and future CO2 levels are within the range of the IPCC estimates.
4. CAGW (Cult of anthropomorphic global warming).
These folks have drank the Kool Aid and believe disaster is coming.


It seems most pro warmers here fall in number 4. A few anti warmers in 1 while I and most others on the skeptical side in 2. Might be some 3 but haven't, based on anonymous Internet blog responses, seen any but 1 or 2 I would place there.

That doesn't seem like a biased ranking system at all.
 
Found this in some lunch time reading today.

1. The Deniers: this is the mostly conservative elements that the far left likes to tar all skeptics with. Believe that there is little or no CO2 warming.
2. The “True Skeptics”. Don’t know how much CO2 forcing is but believe that the warmers haven’t made their case. Believe there is some warming with the minimum of the IPCC estimates as a ceiling (maximum) to the actual warming.
3. Global warmers and pseudo-skeptics. Believe the actual forcing and future CO2 levels are within the range of the IPCC estimates.
4. CAGW (Cult of anthropomorphic global warming).
These folks have drank the Kool Aid and believe disaster is coming.


It seems most pro warmers here fall in number 4. A few anti warmers in 1 while I and most others on the skeptical side in 2. Might be some 3 but haven't, based on anonymous Internet blog responses, seen any but 1 or 2 I would place there.
I'm somewhere around 2.9.
 
I was taking it to an extreme to make a point. However, it appears I did so badly. But perhaps not. Why would anyone be thrown in jail for this? How can you can prove there is an orchestrated misinformation campaign?
I don't know and I don't even know that orchestrating one technically constitutes a crime unless you can prove damages.
 
Here's another entertaining read as well.

How to Sell a Pseudoscience
http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/pratkanis.htm

What's amusing about your link is that atheists are dramatically more likely to accept the scientific consensus on climate change than the standard public. If anything, the author of your piece would be more likely to consider the climate denier community to be engaging in pseudoscience than the worldwide scientific community.

Is that why you thought it was interesting? 🙂

climate_change_religiosity.png
 
What's amusing about your link is that atheists are dramatically more likely to accept the scientific consensus on climate change than the standard public. If anything, the author of your piece would be more likely to consider the climate denier community to be engaging in pseudoscience than the worldwide scientific community.

Is that why you thought it was interesting? 🙂

climate_change_religiosity.png

Skeptic about science, where all the evidence is available, but completely dedicated to "faith". :biggrin:
 
There are multiple ways of looking at that, but I'll try to keep it focused. The Little Ice Age. Why did it stop? For all we know the warming that took us out of the Little Ice Age is still ongoing. Why must there be cooling if our temperature is still within the normal bounds of previous interglacial periods?

Without a higher temperature or higher sea level than the Eemain, what exactly is unnatural about our current temperature?



Yes, but why is the temperature rise explicitly originating from CO2? Is it simply because we have no other answer?

The correlation of CO2 and temperature rise in the 20th century is not enough to determine Sensitivity. I could very well point to motor vehicles and our mass production of paved surfaces absorbing more solar energy and heating our planet through UHI. Would that effect really be too small to matter next to CO2 absorption?



I'd like to understand how there is confidence in this. Simple correlation? Our inability to fully account for natural factors? Because when it comes down to it alternative theories just don't compete?

First thing. I think you should read this. It may explain my position better than my post have come across to you. It also may give you some areas of the current theory where you would want to investigate more to look for holes.

The reason CO2 is the culprit over the last century is that measurements and analysis show it's the only forcing that fits the global surface temperature signature seen.

We've known CO2 absorbs infrared light since John Tyndall did absorption spectrum experiments in the 1860's.

Starting in the 80's a series of NASA satellites, IRIS, AIRS, AURORA, and others have directly measured an increasing drop in the wavelengths of light that CO2 is known to absorb.

Simultaneous ground measurements showed an increase in the wavelength of light that CO2 emits. That reradiated energy warms the globe further.

When the IPCC, NASA, NOAA, et al measured/calculated the forcings they found that all of the increase was described by the increase in CO2 and to a lesser extent methane.

KnuttiAttributionBreakdown.png


So I'm not saying natural variation can't make a global surface temperature signature the looks like the last century. I'm saying the data indicates natural variation did not while CO2 did.
 
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