Here’s how you school climate deniers: The anti-science movement’s biggest fallacies,

[Doc Savage Fan]

AR5 did lower climate sensitivity slightly. Other research indicates the sensitivity may be lower than IPCC has published. Course it could be higher but recent studies pretty much are revising ECS down. One of the biggest problems is with the models themselves. The models are departing more and more from observational data.

I hate it when that happens!

 

[Moonbeam]

M: Why? Because I know the truth about anything and everything at gut level without batting an eye?

DSF: Yes.

M: You realize that this truthiness of mine reflects exactly the nature of the CBD. I am demonstrating to you what conservatives look like. They should be the ones to amaze you.

M: Look at what you post. You are not honest in what you say, I don't think. You aren't amazed by my clarity, you are appalled by it. Furthermore, you are appalled at something you project, as if you knew what my reality is. Also you are applying your own idea as to what it means to be clear.

DSF: I've thought about this and I remain amazed...not appalled in the slightest.

M: First off you will forge me but I have in my humble opinion one area of expertise that calls into question your claim, and that is, not to call you a liar, but to tell you that it is far far far far more difficult than you may currently be able to credit, just how difficult it is to know what you feel, especially if you rely on some ego identification to supply missing self respect.

Secondly, if you are able to assess my clarity in an amazed and curious manner, without a need to condemn, think of how much more I might be able to do that knowing as I do that we aren't capable of being responsible for anything. We do not know what motivates us because we hold such motivations in contempt. You will be much more likely to understand this when you are able to feel how much you hate yourself as I have. What you call clarity, I call having nothing left to hide, having as it were, my ego armor burnt to a crisp.

M: Furthermore still, you have a problem with ego. One is not supposed to say the things I do because they sound egotistical. One is supposed to harmonize with other people, be a part of the typical group think, but false modesty is nothing but convoluted ego. What you may have forgotten is that I am a nobody.

DSF: We all have problems with ego and I don't believe that you or I are immune. For a nobody, you sure seem to know a lot...I wish I could be that sure of anything. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say I'm more curious than amazed...but amazed seems to fit as well.

M: We all have problems with ego, those of us who have not uprooted it to its source and I make no claim whatsoever that I have. What I do know is that as a younger man I died to everything I held sacred, the unconscious assumptions that held me a prisoner, suddenly falling away. I became a nobody who doesn't know a thing, just like the rest of the world, but somebody who actually knows it. You can appreciate, I am sure, just how different that makes one from the gas bags who think they do.

 

[dphantom]

wow

 

[Moonbeam]

I highly doubt you'll live long enough to get your ass blown off by climate change...but I fear your head may have been blown off quite some time ago. 😉

Indeed it was. Fortunately I don't now miss it or need it because I no longer have to think. I instantly recognize the utter futility faced by those who think they know something. Have pity on the knowers who think they know and don't know anything.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Indeed it was. Fortunately I don't now miss it or need it because I no longer have to think. I instantly recognize the utter futility faced by those who think they know something. Have pity on the knowers who think they know and don't know anything.

I'll drink to that!

 

[chucky2]

M: Why? Because I know the truth about anything and everything at gut level without batting an eye?

DSF: Yes.

M: You realize that this truthiness of mine reflects exactly the nature of the CBD. I am demonstrating to you what conservatives look like. They should be the ones to amaze you.

M: Look at what you post. You are not honest in what you say, I don't think. You aren't amazed by my clarity, you are appalled by it. Furthermore, you are appalled at something you project, as if you knew what my reality is. Also you are applying your own idea as to what it means to be clear.

DSF: I've thought about this and I remain amazed...not appalled in the slightest.

M: First off you will forge me but I have in my humble opinion one area of expertise that calls into question your claim, and that is, not to call you a liar, but to tell you that it is far far far far more difficult than you may currently be able to credit, just how difficult it is to know what you feel, especially if you rely on some ego identification to supply missing self respect.

Secondly, if you are able to assess my clarity in an amazed and curious manner, without a need to condemn, think of how much more I might be able to do that knowing as I do that we aren't capable of being responsible for anything. We do not know what motivates us because we hold such motivations in contempt. You will be much more likely to understand this when you are able to feel how much you hate yourself as I have. What you call clarity, I call having nothing left to hide, having as it were, my ego armor burnt to a crisp.

M: Furthermore still, you have a problem with ego. One is not supposed to say the things I do because they sound egotistical. One is supposed to harmonize with other people, be a part of the typical group think, but false modesty is nothing but convoluted ego. What you may have forgotten is that I am a nobody.

DSF: We all have problems with ego and I don't believe that you or I are immune. For a nobody, you sure seem to know a lot...I wish I could be that sure of anything. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say I'm more curious than amazed...but amazed seems to fit as well.

M: We all have problems with ego, those of us who have not uprooted it to its source and I make no claim whatsoever that I have. What I do know is that as a younger man I died to everything I held sacred, the unconscious assumptions that held me a prisoner, suddenly falling away. I became a nobody who doesn't know a thing, just like the rest of the world, but somebody who actually knows it. You can appreciate, I am sure, just how different that makes one from the gas bags who think they do.

5.5/10

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

M: Why? Because I know the truth about anything and everything at gut level without batting an eye?

DSF: Yes.

M: You realize that this truthiness of mine reflects exactly the nature of the CBD. I am demonstrating to you what conservatives look like. They should be the ones to amaze you.

M: Look at what you post. You are not honest in what you say, I don't think. You aren't amazed by my clarity, you are appalled by it. Furthermore, you are appalled at something you project, as if you knew what my reality is. Also you are applying your own idea as to what it means to be clear.

DSF: I've thought about this and I remain amazed...not appalled in the slightest.

M: First off you will forge me but I have in my humble opinion one area of expertise that calls into question your claim, and that is, not to call you a liar, but to tell you that it is far far far far more difficult than you may currently be able to credit, just how difficult it is to know what you feel, especially if you rely on some ego identification to supply missing self respect.

Secondly, if you are able to assess my clarity in an amazed and curious manner, without a need to condemn, think of how much more I might be able to do that knowing as I do that we aren't capable of being responsible for anything. We do not know what motivates us because we hold such motivations in contempt. You will be much more likely to understand this when you are able to feel how much you hate yourself as I have. What you call clarity, I call having nothing left to hide, having as it were, my ego armor burnt to a crisp.

M: Furthermore still, you have a problem with ego. One is not supposed to say the things I do because they sound egotistical. One is supposed to harmonize with other people, be a part of the typical group think, but false modesty is nothing but convoluted ego. What you may have forgotten is that I am a nobody.

DSF: We all have problems with ego and I don't believe that you or I are immune. For a nobody, you sure seem to know a lot...I wish I could be that sure of anything. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say I'm more curious than amazed...but amazed seems to fit as well.

M: We all have problems with ego, those of us who have not uprooted it to its source and I make no claim whatsoever that I have. What I do know is that as a younger man I died to everything I held sacred, the unconscious assumptions that held me a prisoner, suddenly falling away. I became a nobody who doesn't know a thing, just like the rest of the world, but somebody who actually knows it. You can appreciate, I am sure, just how different that makes one from the gas bags who think they do.

I tried to be truthful with you to the best of my ability. Please don't expect anything more than that from me...as it's all I have. You have a unique way at looking at the world and I'm OK with that. Although I may disagree with you at times, please take no offense.

 

[Moonbeam]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dphantom
AR5 did lower climate sensitivity slightly. Other research indicates the sensitivity may be lower than IPCC has published. Course it could be higher but recent studies pretty much are revising ECS down. One of the biggest problems is with the models themselves. The models are departing more and more from observational data.

I hate it when that happens!

Why is that a problem, why is it hated. What are the possibilities? Think critically.....

It means the data that they are diverging may be wrong. It means models aren't accounting for variables unknown or that the data for better models can't be crunched in a timely fashion. It could mean that Hopi who dance to keep the universe working properly are having a positive effect.

The concern may be false

The data may be wrong

The model may be wrong

The modeled may be changing in nature.

Anything else????

 

[JEDIYoda]

Why is that a problem, why is it hated. What are the possibilities? Think critically.....

It means the data that they are diverging may be wrong. It means models aren't accounting for variables unknown or that the data for better models can't be crunched in a timely fashion. It could mean that Hopi who dance to keep the universe working properly are having a positive effect.

The concern may be false

The data may be wrong

The model may be wrong

The modeled may be changing in nature.

Anything else????

I grew up in a highly religious home!@!
In all my years since I left home there is one person who I quote from time to time on my facebook page and that is Moonbeam!

He says some really profound things...for example the latest quote -- My friend who goes by the alias Moonbeam at times is a very profound person as far as his outlook on life is concerned -- I thought that what he says in the following is so very true --
"My opinion then is that if you want consistency (in religion)seek the source of your longings. In the Beginning God didn't say let there be light. He said, let there be love. It is that which we seek and have always had, in my opinion. " -- sums it up quite well!!

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Why is that a problem, why is it hated. What are the possibilities? Think critically.....

It means the data that they are diverging may be wrong. It means models aren't accounting for variables unknown or that the data for better models can't be crunched in a timely fashion. It could mean that Hopi who dance to keep the universe working properly are having a positive effect.

The concern may be false

The data may be wrong

The model may be wrong

The modeled may be changing in nature.

Anything else????

Nope. Except perhaps that my weak attempt at humor offended you in some way beyond my ability to imagine.

 

[Moonbeam]

I tried to be truthful with you to the best of my ability. Please don't expect anything more than that from me...as it's all I have. You have a unique way at looking at the world and I'm OK with that. Although I may disagree with you at times, please take no offense.

The way I see it if I am offended by anything you say it is because I already harbor some manner of self contempt in the area you probed. That means, even if I feel it is you who offends me, I know better at a more rational level. I believe I am personally at cause. personally responsible, and personally to blame for everything negative I feel. There is no form of anger I can feel for anybody I imagine is putting me down that can be justified. There are only old wounds that are still buried that somebody can poke. Every such experience is a self revelation as to what remains hidden from view.

I think also that you have far more than you may imagine. You have what I call soul, decency, and a healthy form of righteous indignation.

I, myself, don't know a thing about climate change and have no opinion, but I saw this today and wonder what you think:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/

 

[Moonbeam]

Nope. Except perhaps that my weak attempt at humor offended you in some way beyond my ability to imagine.

I got the humor and wasn't offended. I wanted to go to the critical thinking stage instead of a humorous one because I saw an acceptance of a premise at a level that I thought could profit from challenge. Your comment was funny, however, and a more thoughtful and considerate person might have started by acknowledging that first.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

The way I see it if I am offended by anything you say it is because I already harbor some manner of self contempt in the area you probed. That means, even if I feel it is you who offends me, I know better at a more rational level. I believe I am personally at cause. personally responsible, and personally to blame for everything negative I feel. There is no form of anger I can feel for anybody I imagine is putting me down that can be justified. There are only old wounds that are still buried that somebody can poke. Every such experience is a self revelation as to what remains hidden from view.

I think also that you have far more than you may imagine. You have what I call soul, decency, and a healthy form of righteous indignation.

I, myself, don't know a thing about climate change and have no opinion, but I saw this today and wonder what you think:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/

I agree, right, wrong or indifferent, I do have a "healthy form of righteous indignation" at times. Nice pick up.

But I'm not sure why you're asking me my opinion on that link, as I have no issues with its contents. Was there something specific that you wanted me to look at?

 

[Moonbeam]

I grew up in a highly religious home!@!
In all my years since I left home there is one person who I quote from time to time on my facebook page and that is Moonbeam!

He says some really profound things...for example the latest quote -- My friend who goes by the alias Moonbeam at times is a very profound person as far as his outlook on life is concerned -- I thought that what he says in the following is so very true --
"My opinion then is that if you want consistency (in religion)seek the source of your longings. In the Beginning God didn't say let there be light. He said, let there be love. It is that which we seek and have always had, in my opinion. " -- sums it up quite well!!

Know that as a person who has opened the door to his feelings of self hate, I find it difficult to take in any praise, to let it really really touch me, because it awakens the pain that remains, but I want to thank you for your kind words and to wish for you that the love that we all seek finds you even more that it already has.

 

[Moonbeam]

I agree, right, wrong or indifferent, I do have a "healthy form of righteous indignation" at times. Nice pick up.

But I'm not sure why you're asking me my opinion on that link, as I have no issues with its contents. Was there something specific that you wanted me to look at?

My thought were that the link rationally negates climate denial and suggests it is a real threat.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I got the humor and wasn't offended. I wanted to go to the critical thinking stage instead of a humorous one because I saw an acceptance of a premise at a level that I thought could profit from challenge. Your comment was funny, however, and a more thoughtful and considerate person might have started by acknowledging that first.

I wasn't fishing for a compliment....so don't sweat it. However, I certainly wasn't looking for an analysis either.

But I will freely admit that it was back-handed humor, directed towards those who say they love science, but in reality perceive my mere mention of such minor "anomalies" as ample reason to label me a "denier"...to some, an uncaring threat to mankind and bent on the complete destruction of our planet. I know that most won't get the "joke"...but I'm ok with that as well.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

My thought were that the link rationally negates climate denial and suggests it is a real threat.

What is "climate denial" in your opinion? And have I shown you good cause for you to believe that I'm one who believes such?

 

[Zaap]

I personally like it when they use the term "deniers"...it immediately clarifies the level of intellect you're dealing with.

Heh I personally like that it's devolved now to just using the term climate.

Talk about hedging your bets! Who the hell denies that there's climate and that it changes? Its like trying to claim a winning argument for yourself based on labeling others as "sunrise deniers ".

It is funny to me how silly its all gotten. It gets colder? Climate! It gets hotter? Climate!

You get to always be right if you dumb things down enough for the ususal suspects.

 

[Moonbeam]

Heh I personally like that it's devolved now to just using the term climate.

Talk about hedging your bets! Who the hell denies that there's climate and that it changes? Its like trying to claim a winning argument for yourself based on labeling others as "sunrise deniers ".

It is funny to me how silly its all gotten. It gets colder? Climate! It gets hotter? Climate!

You get to always be right if you dumb things down enough for the ususal suspects.

I thought what you just did was a profound example of dumbing things down.

 

[Moonbeam]

What is "climate denial" in your opinion? And have I shown you good cause for you to believe that I'm one who believes such?

A climate denier in my opinion is anybody not on the front lines to nationalize the fossil fuel industry world wide and use the profit for research, development, and instillation of alternative energy sources, tomorrow. I don't know where you stand on this.

 

[boomerang]

A climate denier in my opinion is anybody not on the front lines to nationalize the fossil fuel industry world wide and use the profit for research, development, and instillation of alternative energy sources, tomorrow. I don't know where you stand on this.

So take us through one of your typical days on the front lines. Some will undoubtedly find your stories very motivating.

 

[zinfamous]

It's a strawman term for those who have little understanding of the debate.

Sometimes groups create a debate that otherwise would not exist, simply to give themselves false validity.

Evolution vs Creation.

That never was a debate. There is no debate in science. No scientist debates the fact of evolution. Only creationists claim a debate exists, simply to say that it exists.

Such is the same with much of Climate deniers. I think there is a legit group of skeptics (another word for scientist, you know...), but a denier is easy to spot:

"Oh, those decades of thousands and thousands of peer-reviewed, non-industry papers coming into concert about relatively the same outcome? Yeah--no, not enough data! I got this one paper, from GE, that says otherwise! PROOF!"

Lack of understanding the basic standards of the scientific method tends to fool deniers/idiots/ideological soapboxers into assuming that their ignorance is a valid basis for creating a debate.

 

[Moonbeam]

Sometimes groups create a debate that otherwise would not exist, simply to give themselves false validity.

Evolution vs Creation.

That never was a debate. There is no debate in science. No scientist debates the fact of evolution. Only creationists claim a debate exists, simply to say that it exists.

Such is the same with much of Climate deniers. I think there is a legit group of skeptics (another word for scientist, you know...), but a denier is easy to spot:

"Oh, those decades of thousands and thousands of peer-reviewed, non-industry papers coming into concert about relatively the same outcome? Yeah--no, not enough data! I got this one paper, from GE, that says otherwise! PROOF!"

Lack of understanding the basic standards of the scientific method tends to fool deniers/idiots/ideological soapboxers into assuming that their ignorance is a valid basis for creating a debate.

You are very patient. I would say there are a huge collection of self hating angry people in our country who have fallen behind in competition and rather than blame themselves or the system that failed them, collect in a group of easily manipulated imbeciles and are fed enemies to blame for their miseries, by the cunning the wealthy hire to brainwash them. Every day some new group of folk with the brains to diagnose their problems is added to their hate list to insure that no laws are passes to step on the predation of the wealthy. The enemy of the self hater is always something that can fix his situation.

 

[IamDavid]

Sometimes groups create a debate that otherwise would not exist, simply to give themselves false validity.

Evolution vs Creation.

That never was a debate. There is no debate in science. No scientist debates the fact of evolution. Only creationists claim a debate exists, simply to say that it exists.

Such is the same with much of Climate deniers. I think there is a legit group of skeptics (another word for scientist, you know...), but a denier is easy to spot:

"Oh, those decades of thousands and thousands of peer-reviewed, non-industry papers coming into concert about relatively the same outcome? Yeah--no, not enough data! I got this one paper, from GE, that says otherwise! PROOF!"

Lack of understanding the basic standards of the scientific method tends to fool deniers/idiots/ideological soapboxers into assuming that their ignorance is a valid basis for creating a debate.

Soooo... The greater the # of lemmings, the truer the facts are?
I seem to remember a few decades ago where scientist overwhelmingly agreed in scientific racism.
When "studying" the impossible to prove or disprove its easy to arrive at the conclusions your looking for. Or like in this instance, the answers your masters are asking for.
When studying something as vast and unending as our worlds climate its incredibly naïve for any group of people to say they know or understand it. It's absolutely destructive to mock and minimize opposing views.

 

[Moonbeam]

So take us through one of your typical days on the front lines. Some will undoubtedly find your stories very motivating.

It wouldn't appeal to you. I have to get in and out of a lot of really tight places and your difficulty with your gravitationally challenged balls would only cause you to get hung up, even though, were you ev n more hung up, it wouldn't be an issue.