Herbalife, anyone?

[desura]

It's in the news lately now that a big hedge fund manager has placed a huge billion dollar bet that it is a fraudulent company.

It looks like your basic Amway-esque MLM. Anyone know anyone into it? I'm not into the whole supplements thing, but it looks like they're charging like $30 for a plastic container of powdered sugar.

 

[chimaxi83]

It's in the news lately now that a big hedge fund manager has placed a huge billion dollar bet that it is a fraudulent company.

It looks like your basic Amway-esque MLM. Anyone know anyone into it? I'm not into the whole supplements thing, but it looks like they're charging like $30 for a plastic container of powdered sugar.

Lately? You're more than a year late.

 

[jpeyton]

It's been in the new for a year or so, back when Ackman originally shorted Herbalife.

It's in the news again because Ackman's lobbying dollars have paid off, and the FTC is going to investigate Herbalife.

Not that I care. Herbalife reeks of MLM.

 

[norseamd]

I'm not into the whole supplements thing, but it looks like they're charging like $30 for a plastic container of powdered sugar.

link?

sure it is not protein?

might be carb powders. like dextrose or something

 

[desura]

It's been in the new for a year or so, back when Ackman originally shorted Herbalife.

It's in the news again because Ackman's lobbying dollars have paid off, and the FTC is going to investigate Herbalife.

Not that I care. Herbalife reeks of MLM.

Eh, I read a big article a few days ago in the NYT which is why I started this thread...

yeah, MLM's are evil. I wish that they would all be destroyed.

 

[norseamd]

Eh, I read a big article a few days ago in the NYT which is why I started this thread... yeah, MLM's are evil. I wish that they would all be destroyed.

have you read about salt lake city and utah?

 

[desura]

have you read about salt lake city and utah?

what about them?

 

[norseamd]

think there was a program on pbs about how utah has laws favorable to mlm companies to go there.

apparantly when romney was on the campagin trail during 2012 he had a big convention at salt lake city and invited a whole lot of mlm types.

might have been frontline

 

[Destiny]

MLM = "Revised" Pyramid scheme. From what I researched, if most of the revenue is generated from recruiting, "franchise" or "business set up fees" or whatever lingo they use = illegal = pyramid scheme.

I noticed some of the longest lasting and successful MLM companies have former attorney generals and federal judges sitting on their board to help fight the lawsuits... I know for a fact that some of the top MLM earners are just money laundering or "purchased" their high postions including the downline book of businesses - then the MLM companies use these people as their marketing gimmicks.

 

[desura]

I noticed some of the longest lasting and successful MLM companies have former attorney generals and federal judges sitting on their board to help fight the lawsuits... I know for a fact that some of the top MLM earners are just money laundering or "purchased" their high postions including the downline book of businesses - then the MLM companies use these people as their marketing gimmicks.

*barf*

 

[baydude]

fuck HLF and fuck all legit MLM companies too.

I'm tired of seeing people who attend these lame MLM conventions where it's all jazzed up with fireworks and motivational music like they're there cheering for a fucking WWE match. Idiots would go home preaching to their closest family members and friends with scripted stories of retiring the entire family early, owning exotic cars, and showing photos of their highest up-up-line's paycheck.. LOL idiots.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Didnt Ackman recently over half his short position?

 

[Alienwho]

I work at the corporate headquarters of an MLM company in Salt Lake City and I am so torn over MLM's. 99% of executive leadership at MLM's are complete scumbags. It's a game to them and they often treat company funds like their own personal checking account. The regular corporate headquarter employees are just doing a job and making a living and are actually typically treated very well by management.

Most MLM's shovel BS products down everyone's throats but I am consistently shocked at the sheer amount of users of our product that swear by it. The typical associate who pushes product is a complete moron and 5% of the associates make 95% of the money. To be fair though anyone who has the right personality and is willing to really put in the work and probably lose all their friends and family can hit that top 5%. IMO to hit that top 5% you have to have no soul or sense of morality.

It's a fascinating industry, that's for sure.

 

[Alienwho]

I know for a fact that some of the top MLM earners are just money laundering or "purchased" their high postions including the downline book of businesses - then the MLM companies use these people as their marketing gimmicks.

Confirmed for truth but it's much more corrupt than this.

 

[Ruptga]

I work at the corporate headquarters of an MLM company in Salt Lake City and I am so torn over MLM's. 99% of executive leadership at MLM's are complete scumbags. It's a game to them and they often treat company funds like their own personal checking account. The regular corporate headquarter employees are just doing a job and making a living and are actually typically treated very well by management.

Most MLM's shovel BS products down everyone's throats but I am consistently shocked at the sheer amount of users of our product that swear by it. The typical associate who pushes product is a complete moron and 5% of the associates make 95% of the money. To be fair though anyone who has the right personality and is willing to really put in the work and probably lose all their friends and family can hit that top 5%. IMO to hit that top 5% you have to have no soul or sense of morality.

It's a fascinating industry, that's for sure.

Oh yeah, fascinating in much the same way that psychologists find Mao fascinating.

 

[norseamd]

Oh yeah, fascinating in much the same way that psychologists find Mao fascinating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Guerrilla_Warfare

a highly cited work

 

[norseamd]

mao has quite a few more writings and such

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong#Writings_and_calligraphy

 

[desura]

I work at the corporate headquarters of an MLM company in Salt Lake City and I am so torn over MLM's. 99% of executive leadership at MLM's are complete scumbags. It's a game to them and they often treat company funds like their own personal checking account. The regular corporate headquarter employees are just doing a job and making a living and are actually typically treated very well by management.

Most MLM's shovel BS products down everyone's throats but I am consistently shocked at the sheer amount of users of our product that swear by it. The typical associate who pushes product is a complete moron and 5% of the associates make 95% of the money. To be fair though anyone who has the right personality and is willing to really put in the work and probably lose all their friends and family can hit that top 5%. IMO to hit that top 5% you have to have no soul or sense of morality.

It's a fascinating industry, that's for sure.

Now are those 5% legitimately good salespersons, as in they could be a top salesperson at like a car dealership?

Or are those 5% just better at pushing others into being "distributors"?

 

[norseamd]

Now are those 5% legitimately skilled salespersons, as in they could be a top salesperson at like a car dealership? Or are those 5% just better at pushing others into being "distributors"?

fixed

 

[Ruptga]

mao has quite a few more writings and such

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong#Writings_and_calligraphy

A controversial figure, Mao is regarded as one of the most important individuals in modern world history.[2] Mao is officially held in high regard in the People's Republic of China. Supporters regard him as a great leader and credit him with numerous accomplishments including modernizing China and building it into a world power, promoting the status of women, improving education and health care, providing universal housing, and increasing life expectancy as China's population grew from around 550 to over 900 million during the period of his leadership.[3][4][4][5] Maoists furthermore promote his role as theorist, statesman, poet, and visionary.[6] In contrast, critics and historians have characterised him as a dictator who oversaw systematic human rights abuses, and whose rule is estimated to have contributed to the deaths of 40–70 million people through starvation, forced labour and executions, ranking his tenure as the top incidence of democide in human history.[7][8][9]

Hitler clocks in at 11 million deaths, with Stalin at 15-20 million deaths, and Mao smokes both of them with 40-70. I don't care how brilliant he was, we don't need people like that, nor do we need institutionalized exploitation in the form of MLMs.

 

[norseamd]

the art of war by sun tzu is often read by businessmen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_War

 

[norseamd]

Hitler clocks in at 11 million deaths, with Stalin at 15-20 million deaths, and Mao smokes both of them with 40-70. I don't care how brilliant he was, we don't need people like that, nor do we need institutionalized exploitation in the form of MLMs.

no

hate him very much

he killed a ton of people and animals

several endangered animals like the south chinese tiger almost went extinct.

also was willing to use the ignorance and depravity of any one he could.

 

[TwiceOver]

I don't sell their products, but I drink their shakes and teas. Tasty, decent meal replacement.

 

[Alienwho]

Now are those 5% legitimately good salespersons, as in they could be a top salesperson at like a car dealership?

Or are those 5% just better at pushing others into being "distributors"?

It's not so much about selling the product, it's about selling the job. You won't make the big bucks if you are selling all the product. You need to enroll people under you who are the true product selling rock stars.

For example lets say I buy $1000 worth of product at the loyalty price and I'm able to resell it myself for $2000. That's $1000 worth of profit which may have taken me a month to sell and quite a bit of work. Well if I would enroll a salesman on my left leg and another on my right leg which each sell $1000 worth of product the MLM company itself might actually pay me $500 and give me some free product for having built my own "business". Now instead of focusing on spending 100% of my time selling the product I spend 5% of my time supporting each of my team members. Once you have a competent team up and running you're basically making good money for doing hardly any work. This is the "dream" lifestyle that they try to sell you.

It's not easy but you'd be amazed at the amount of buffoons who actually end up making good money in it because they lucked out and happened to get some real rockstars below them who do all the work.

Here's some numbers for you. The top 5% do make 95% of the money, meaning if you have 100 distributors and $1million pot to split, 5 of the 95 are going to pocket $950k leaving the other $50k distributed among the 95. Well in reality the bottom 50% are inactive or complete idiots and not trying anyway so they filter themselves out. So those people aren't taking a cut. This leaves 45 people to pretty even split the remaining $50k, which means they're each earning slightly less than $1000 a month for spending a few hours per week working the job in their free time. This is all most of the 'working class' MLM distributors care about. Working a few hours a week to make some additional income to make their fancy car payment.

 

[Ruptga]

What you didn't mention is that the half that doesn't get any payout usually paid IN several hundred dollars in "membership fees" before they realized what a scam it was and cut their losses. Other than that, sure, it's win-win-win all around.