Herbal Zoloft?

[Nocturnal]

<< Well, that brings me to another question (everyone's saying ARE YOU REALLY DEPRESSED?) etc. I don't know if what I have is something with me that's unusual, or if it's just natural, teenage, fvcked up inbalances that makes me dissatisfied with life. I know I've been blessed with my mother's insomnia, which doesn't help, but I'm not sure if I'm unhappy because everyone is or if there's something really wrong.
I'm confused. >>



DONT listen to anyone on here. nobody can make a diagnosis over the internet, and especially just by a bunch of text. they dont know if youre depressed or not. what you can do is get an appointment with a psychologist. but dont listen to anyone here from at. theyre not anywhere near qualified to tell you what you have and what you dont have. and even if they were, thats very bad practice if you try to diagnose someone online. thats a definate no no.

 

[apoppin]

<< Herbs are fvcking dangerous. >>



Thank you for your ignorant opinion.

 

[Chooco]

technically opium and coca are herbs, same with poison ivy, stingin nettles and many other trees which have very poisonous leaves.
as a general rule, leaves are supposed to be poisonous so that predators don't eat them. roots shouldn't ever be poisonous because if it were, the plant would die.

placebo effect is HUGE, scientific studies have shown that ginseng and ginko have absolutely no effect on the body besides placebo since they got the same results when they gave out pills that had a very similar taste but were nothing more than artificial flavour.

if you are happy, weed will make you happier but if you are depressed it will make you even more depressed. if you think you are depressed, stay the hell away from weed, the paranoia doesn't like mixing with sadness...........make you all crazy

 

[rahvin]

<< << Herbs are fvcking dangerous. >>

Thank you for your ignorant opinion. >>



So explain to me how my opinion is ignorant. Here's an example: I'm on coumadin, a drug to regulate the coagulation of my blood. I was told by my coumadin clinic to avoid Herbal products and I must tell them before I start any of. Do you know why? Because that Herbal Viagra you take may in fact cause a conflict with coumadin. See when you take Herbs (an unregulated product) you don't know the quality, and you don't KNOW what is in it. It could contain and usually does, numerous poisons or actual quantities of real drugs that you don't intend to consume. See that Herbal Viagra may give you the placebo effect you desire, but if it lowers the coagulation of your blood and you end up getting in a car accident and the hospital has to go to extreme measures to stabilize your blood what would you think then?

Without science it's NOTHING but old wives tales. Come on out to utah and have some sagebrush tea, I hear it's great for headaches.

 

[vi edit]

<< I'm on coumadin, a drug to regulate the coagulation of my blood. I was told by my coumadin clinic to avoid Herbal products and I must tell them before I start any of. >>



rahvin, any doctor with an sence of self-accountability would make this suggestion when you were on any sort of medication that could be potentially dangerous and/or reduce the effectiveness of a perscribed drug.

This is why pharmacists go to school for 4 years. They have to know the ins and outs of damn near any every drug to drug interaction.

It's pretty much a given that when you are on a perscribed medication, you should consult with a doctor and/or a pharmacist before taking ANYTHING else...whether it be OTC sinus medication, off the shelf herbal supplements, or doctor perscribed blood pressure medication.

 

[jhu]

I'm more fond of the cognitive/behavioral schools of thought when it comes to handling depression.

The mind is a very powerful thing and suggestive thing. Learning how to ignore the deceptions that it feeds you is a very important step to overcoming it.

unless you have a serotonin deficit in your brain...

 

[vi edit]

<< unless you have a serotonin deficit in your brain... >>



Not much has been proven to help schizophrenics Serotonin makes them "manageable", but it is by no means a cure all.

 

[apoppin]

<< So explain to me how my opinion is ignorant. Here's an example: I'm on coumadin, a drug to regulate the coagulation of my blood. I was told by my coumadin clinic to avoid Herbal products and I must tell them before I start any of. Do you know why? Because that Herbal Viagra you take may in fact cause a conflict with coumadin. See when you take Herbs (an unregulated product) you don't know the quality, and you don't KNOW what is in it. It could contain and usually does, numerous poisons or actual quantities of real drugs that you don't intend to consume. See that Herbal Viagra may give you the placebo effect you desire, but if it lowers the coagulation of your blood and you end up getting in a car accident and the hospital has to go to extreme measures to stabilize your blood what would you think then? >>



I think I will have a very hard time explaining this to you since you appear to worship at the altar of "modern" Western Medicine.

What you fail to realize that a very large percentage of Western medicine is based on herbal remedies.

How old is Western medicine? People have been treated successfully for many thousands of years with proven herbal remedies. The same powers of observation have been part of the human experience for years. They have observed animals using certain herbs for ailments and have been able to get very consistent results in humans with them.

In Europe - where drug companies seem to have less control - herbs are in much more common use than America. Many of them have been scientifically studied and are proven effective. However, where big business rules, herbs don't generate much money for manufactrurers so herbal studies are generally not even bothered with.

Tell me, what are the side-effects of YOUR medicine? Did you read the booklet that came with your prescription? Do you wanna talk about "dangerous"?

Sure, it IS dangerous to mix or take herbs without certain knowledge. And there are many dangerous drug/herb interactions.

But don't compare herbs to witchcraft. That IS ignorant. There is a HUGE base of information - for example - in Traditional Chinese Medicine that is safe, effective and cost effective. Western medicine has not even scratched the surface here.

Now let me give you a personal example . . . I was badly injured in two whiplash rear-end auto accidents. Herniated and bulging disks which are untreatable in Western medicine except by operation and analgesics. My MD prescribed Vicodin (every 4 hours) and Ultram (every 6 hours - damned if they know how it works or what it's long term effects are) and 3,200mg daily of Ibuprofin (guaranteed liver failure and kidney shutdown if I took it long enough). My MD is just willing to continue writing those prescriptions (sure, she said let's do blood tests so we can change my meds to other [read: equally dangerous] analgesics).

I opted to move back to Honolulu January-April this year to get treated by my old Traditional Chinese Medicine master-herbalist/acupuncturist. This man is dean of the Oriental Medicine college there and has been practicing for 36 years (he is from Mainland China). Currently, I am having NO pain and I haven't taken any painkillers for months (nor am I continuing acupuncture OR herbs).

You can rail all you want against herbs. Some of us know better.


EDIT: The above is in no way any endorsement for any particular form of treatment. The original topic was "depression". My suggestion to the original poster of this thread was to seek PROFESSIONAL guidance and counseling BEFORE jumping to ANY form of medicine - herbal or otherwise.

 

[SagaLore]

<< Depression is serious. Everyone gets depressed at times but if it does not go away it needs attention. >>



Everyone get's depressed, but nobody should be taking a prescription drug for it..

if life get's you down, then do something to get it back up

 

[apoppin]

<< Everyone get's depressed, but nobody should be taking a prescription drug for it..

if life get's you down, then do something to get it back up >>




Not true. Depression can be very serious including life-threatening. Most people get depressed from time-to-time - it's "clinical" depression that needs help. The inability to "snap-back" after a prolonged time.

In looking at the January 21, 2002 issue of Time, "Staying Healthy" article - regular EXERCISE (brisk daily walks) can help clinical depression (if necessary, coupled with antidrepressants). And don't forget eating HEALTHY and getting regular SLEEP.

 

[vi edit]

<< In looking at the January 21, 2002 issue of Time, "Staying Healthy" article - regular EXERCISE can help clinical depression (if necessary, coupled with antidrepressants). And don't forget eating HEALTHY and getting regular SLEEP. >>



All of those things with the exception of antidepressants fall under the "behavioral" method of combating depression.

 

[apoppin]

Behavioral modification is shown to be powerful "medicine".

It is much more difficult than taking a pill but at least you don't have possible bad side-effects.

And behavorial modification is often the first logical choice except in certain situations (suicidal, etc.).

 

[vi edit]

I agree completely. When coupled with a little cognitive therapy, it makes for a very incredible way to combat depression.

All too commonly people turn to biological(meds) means of battling depression. They are looking for a quick fix. It just doesn't work that way IMHO. I see most depression drugs as a patch to the real problem. But, therein lies the debate - which came first, the depression or the chemical imbalance in the brain? I see chemical imbalences as a result of depression. Not the other way around. Treating the imbalances with drugs does nothing more than fix the imbalance. It does nothing to help WHY you were depressed in the first place.

Fix the problem, don't band aid. Changing your lifestyle, being active, and eating healthy are all ways to help you "snap out of it". You do need the help and support of friends and loved ones though. It is very difficult to push yourself to actually do them when you depressed.

Sometimes you just need a good, swift, kick in the ass to get motivated

 

[amnesiac]

Too many people think that anti-depressants are the equivalent of "happy pills".

That can't be farther from the truth. All they do is dampen the depression signals in your brain, effectively limiting your range of emotions. Kind of like giving your life a blunter edge. Some people are positively ecstatic with the results they get from these meds, but they are by far in the minority. What many people don't tell you about these meds is the appalling list of side effects.

Trust me on this, I've dealt with depression for the past 6 years, been prescribed almost every known anti-depressant and mood stabilizer, and have an interestingly large amount of friends who have been through the same thing. More often than not they'd appreciate being mildly depressed than doped up on Zoloft / Paxil / Wellbutrin / Prozac / etc.

These are POWERFUL meds and not to be taken on a whim. Any doctor who prescribes these because their patient is "discontent" is a quack and should have his/her license to practice revoked. Such medications should only be in the hands of those under severe psychic distress, not any kid who thinks there's an instant solution to all of life's problems.

There are dozens of ways to make yourself feel better sans medication; I suggest you try one of those. If you start to become highly antisocial, anxious, or suicidal, THEN go see a shrink.

 

[amnesiac]

listen to vi_edit's advice too.

 

[apoppin]

<< These are POWERFUL meds and not to be taken on a whim. Any doctor who prescribes these because their patient is "discontent" is a quack and should have his/her license to practice revoked. >>



Agreed.

I had a bout with depression shortly after my second accident (duh). My MD gave me a written "test" designed by the makers of Paxil (which I think will show everyone at least mildly depressed). When I scored high, she whipped out her Paxil samples and wrote me a prescription for it.

I argued with her for awhile saying that I thought the cause of my depression was obvious (the accident) and should be temporary. But she insisted that I needed to be treated for depression. I kept the samples unused - did my own research (and temporarily took St. john's Wort after researching the possible side-effects and possible conflicts with my analgesics).

My doctor was actually offended when I told her (a few weeks later) I did not take the Paxil and no longer felt depressed. I was offended when this same doctor (irresponsibly, IMO) ALSO prescribed Paxil to my mother (who suffered a bad allergic reaction to it). We no longer go to this doctor . . .

I think the drug companies have WAY TOO much influence on MDs in this country. None of the chemical antidepressants are "safe". And the long-term effects are just being seen now.

 

[Chooco]

amnesiac, that thing you said about drugs blocking sadness chemicals from entering parts of the brain........that is exactly what cocaine does

i did a 6 page report on cocain a few months back, quite the interesting drug it is actually. it has the effects of:
-causes happiness
-causes activeness
-rids you of fear
-fixes upset stomaches due to elevation sickness (in small quantities)

cocaine is actualy a very useful drug. it is not as addictive as you are lead to believe, the addiction is just one caused by the sadness. you take the drug because you are sad, there is an abundance of this sadness chemical which has not been recieved by the brain so it's backing up, as soon as the coke wears off you are flooded with all this sadness chemical so you want more and more coke to fight it off. coke is only addictive because of the sadness after, otherwise it is totaly not addictive, by that i mean you don't start freaking out like when you don't have a cigarette in a while, you don't go into psychosis like you do with narcotics and you don't feel the urge for cocaine after being clean for 2 weeks.
it's always people who purify stuff to make it highly addictive that screw it up for the rest of us.....

 

[apoppin]

Speaking of cocaine, back in the 1980s, modern Western medicine largely said it was "safe" and not addictive.

 

[Chooco]

they should pass a law so that doctors can not legaly own stocks in drug companies and taking a bribe from a drug company would mean an immediate 5 year suspension from practising medicine.

 

[Mill]

<<



Speaking of cocaine, back in the 1980s, modern Western medicine largely said it was "safe" and not addictive.
>>



Until someone got the idea to cook it up with baking soda. Then you have crack. I think crack is not something you would do for recreation or for medicinal purposes. BTW, cocaine is highly addictive in any form.

 

[Chooco]

just because it's addictive doesn't mean it should be illegal, technically speaking you could say that nicotine is almot 100x as addictive as heroine or coke. you buy heroine or coke in GRAMS right? read the package of cigarettes you will see it says the nicotine is measured in MILIGRAMS. 1 or 2 shots of heroine and you could very possibly be addicted. cigarettes are more addictive than ever now, they measure like 5mg of nicotine per cigarette BUT it's almost 100% pure and smoking 1 pack of cigarettes in the same time as taking 2 shots of heroine would make you addicted as well.

keep in mind that coke has medical purposes when taken in small doses such as treat depression and fix motion sickness and elevation sickness. heroine which is basically just morphine but the molecule arranged differently has very good pain killer effects to it but doesn't need to be legal since we already use morphine. nicotine has no medicinal use at all, if you can think of 1 i will actually bang my head into the drywall and spend my weekend fixing the damage.

 

[apoppin]

<< Until someone got the idea to cook it up with baking soda. Then you have crack >>


Freebasing or smoking cocaine has been around for a long long time and was popular also in the 80s . . . however, the convenience of little rocks for users got popular much later.

Most doctors in the 1980s - the medical establishment - largely viewed cocaine as somewhat harmless and NONaddictive - they were wrong - dead wrong. My whole point re:cocaine was that "modern" Western Medicine falls short in many areas and those worshiping at it's altar are bound for seriious disappointment.

 

[apoppin]

Nicotine is very useful as a pesticide.

Now go hurt yourself.

 

[vi edit]

They use cocaine in eye surguries to help keep the eye dilated and as a surface anesthetic.

 

[Nocturnal]

you know anti-depressants doesn't and will never work for EVERYONE. thats why doctors tell you that it might work, and it might not work. if your doctor did not tell you that, and guaranteed you that it would help you then they're quacks. it isnt a cure-all pill, but it does help others who have a chemical imbalance in their brain. you guys have your theories on what causes depression because you suffered it for 6 years. But who are you gonna believe, scientists who have been researching the drug for many more years then you've had depression, or someone who had depression for six years and claims that the medicine doesnt work, or its not a cure-all.

it really helps a lot of people out there. you who take it here and say it doesnt work or it sucks and whatever else you say about only make up like less then 1% of the people who actually take any anti-depressant.

i can agree with you when you say doctors prescribe it too easily. Taking anti-depressants does not give a placebo effect either. I don't know what else to say. You'll all probably flame away and tell me I'm a moron and all that good stuff. But I just felt like speaking my mind. Some people (who may be depressed) may read this and end up not trying the medicine because there is such negative talk towards anti-deppresants.

ok thanks for listening.

and of course people can have allergic reactions to anything. people are alergic to milk, candy, sugar, all kinda things. there is more then one anti-depressant out there for your mom to try. the ones i can name off the top of my head are celexa, paxil, zoloft, and i cant remember the other 3. but there are 6 altogether. and they are not the same exact thing with different names on them. they are ssri's, but not the exact same thing.