Henry Blodget asks why pay people so little?

[ShawnD1]

There are plenting of people living in america for under $300 a month, quite comfortably at that. 4 people each paying $200-$250 a month in rent and utilities rents a very decent 3 bedroom home with finished basement in many areas. That leaves $100 for food and basic needs. Does it include gas money? Internet? $18 supreme pizzas? lol hell no but those arent needs. At 32 hours a week at minimum wage, you can save up $30 grand in five years living like that.

You're pretty much right. My gf was in a situation very similar to that. It was a house with 1 main floor, 1 basement, 1 bathroom, 3 real bedrooms, 2 rooms with beds (a room must have a window before it can be called a bedroom). Rent and utilities was about $350 for each of 3 people.

That is what people should be doing in their twenties. But of course that isnt what they do. They just feed a huge malinvestment/racket, spending their parents' money to enrich a bunch of corrupt officials and administrators. That is all college is.

That pretty much is what 20 year olds do, but what happens after 20? It's generally considered poverty when you're 40 and you still live with 3 other families.

 

[ultimatebob]

Heh, at some yard sales it is about the cost of a hamburger.

Exactly. Wouldn't something more substantial (like being able to afford a properly licensed, insured, and operational automobile) be a better example of something that you cannot afford if you're below the poverty line?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

McDonald's had a profit of over $10 billion last year. They have 400,000 employees.

If they took half their profits and used it to raise wages instead, the average employee would get an extra $10,000/yr. And McDonald's would still profit $5 billion.

Hell, why doesn't McD's or Walmart just pay them the same wages you currently earn? Flipping burgers, checking out customers, and looking a rock formations are damned close.

 

[Throckmorton]

Hell, why doesn't McD's or Walmart just pay them the same wages you currently earn? Flipping burgers, checking out customers, and looking a rock formations are damned close.

Sounds good, since what I make is barely a living wage IF you don't have extra expenses like student loans. But I don't look at rock formations. I'm a GIS tech not a geologist

 

[lord_emperor]

What misguided misinformed nonsense. People are not poor due to the wages they earn. One could live on a dollar a day in food, just google it. All sorts of people are doing it just to see if they can. Now all it takes is a few more dollars a day to get a basic shelter. Clothes can be had very cheaply as long as you stay away from the mall.

Anyone who socks away 50% or more of their earnings can be fairly wealthy after 30 years. Even at $7 an hour @ 32 hrs a week that is still $112 a week or $450 a month of savings. After a year you have $5400. You open up an ameritrade account and you go buy any one of the major top 25 mutual funds, which have returned on average 6% even in this secular bear. So you figure at 6% your 5400 is going to turn into $5700 after a year, in addition to the additional $5400 you added for the 2nd year. So after two years of savings you have about $11200. After 3 years you have about $17200. After 4 years you have about $23600. After 5 years you have $30k. Its just simple math. (My math could be off by as much as 10% so dont bite my head off over it.) Screw the government. Screw 401ks. Screw the fees, the administering, the endless debating. Just take some frickin responsibility for yourself and tell all the vultures in the retirement investment industry to piss off.

But see, the average braindead zombie doesnt want to deal with that. omg working for a living? Savings? Ha! I want it now! Now now now now now. And later too. So instead of saving 30k in 5 years, they are in debt 30k in 5 years. If you actually read this far you know what I am talking about. These people are without hope, wishing uncle sam would help them. And uncle sam will. Uncle sam will help them to the gas chambers because that is the only solution for a bunch of pathetic braindead scum. If you actually study 1930s germany you would see all of this was discussed quite openly. The jews, the gypsies, and what to do about them. I dont expect a repeat of what happened with the jews, but the gypsies, hell yeah its gonna happen again. There are just so many people who are hopelessly dependent on the uncle sugar, and most of these people know that and they just dont give a damn. That is a recipe for some very bad stuff goin down.

So you live on $450/mo for five years, you probably live in a vermin infested apartment or share a basement with three other people and have $150-200 after pitching in your share of the communal expenses. You can pretty much eat and pay for transit to and from work, never mind any unexpected expense or entertainment or education.

Now five years later you have $30,000... WTF DO YOU DO WITH IT? Keep saving until you retire? Buy a car that you can't fuel/insure/maintain? Put a down payment on a really, really shitty house that you can't make the payments for?

I don't think it's much of a stretch to assume that most people don't want to live in such conditions for their whole lives and at 65 years old retire and live in the same conditions, hoping they die before the money runs out.

Almost every day I read about some corporation laying off thousands of employees, freezing wages or outsourcing all while posting ever increasing profits. Not just McDonald's and Wal-Mart, even better paying skilled jobs are paid the least amount the corp can manage to protect the bottom line.

Behavior I'd expect from a company barely scraping by, not from one proudly boasting record profits and doling out commensurate bonuses to its figureheads.

 

[Throckmorton]

Exactly. Wouldn't something more substantial (like being able to afford a properly licensed, insured, and operational automobile) be a better example of something that you cannot afford if you're below the poverty line?

Exactly. That is how I know I'm poor... I can't afford to maintain my Jeep. It needs new shocks, a steering stabilizer, a brake leak fixed, and a new exhaust manifold. About $2000 worth of work, which might as well be $20,000 when your savings rate is negative. I'm just hoping it runs until I get a better job. If it doesn't... well I'll be spending about 4 hours a day commuting by bus.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Sounds good, since what I make is barely a living wage IF you don't have extra expenses like student loans. But I don't look at rock formations. I'm a GIS tech not a geologist

I didn't say anything about raising your salary, just raising the burger flippers and cashiers to your wage level.

 

[Throckmorton]

I didn't say anything about raising your salary, just raising the burger flippers and cashiers to your wage level.

Right... And I think someone flipping burgers should make at least a living wage.

 

[Veliko]

What misguided misinformed nonsense. People are not poor due to the wages they earn. One could live on a dollar a day in food, just google it. All sorts of people are doing it just to see if they can. Now all it takes is a few more dollars a day to get a basic shelter. Clothes can be had very cheaply as long as you stay away from the mall.

Anyone who socks away 50% or more of their earnings can be fairly wealthy after 30 years. Even at $7 an hour @ 32 hrs a week that is still $112 a week or $450 a month of savings. After a year you have $5400. You open up an ameritrade account and you go buy any one of the major top 25 mutual funds, which have returned on average 6% even in this secular bear. So you figure at 6% your 5400 is going to turn into $5700 after a year, in addition to the additional $5400 you added for the 2nd year. So after two years of savings you have about $11200. After 3 years you have about $17200. After 4 years you have about $23600. After 5 years you have $30k. Its just simple math. (My math could be off by as much as 10% so dont bite my head off over it.) Screw the government. Screw 401ks. Screw the fees, the administering, the endless debating. Just take some frickin responsibility for yourself and tell all the vultures in the retirement investment industry to piss off.

But see, the average braindead zombie doesnt want to deal with that. omg working for a living? Savings? Ha! I want it now! Now now now now now. And later too. So instead of saving 30k in 5 years, they are in debt 30k in 5 years. If you actually read this far you know what I am talking about. These people are without hope, wishing uncle sam would help them. And uncle sam will. Uncle sam will help them to the gas chambers because that is the only solution for a bunch of pathetic braindead scum. If you actually study 1930s germany you would see all of this was discussed quite openly. The jews, the gypsies, and what to do about them. I dont expect a repeat of what happened with the jews, but the gypsies, hell yeah its gonna happen again. There are just so many people who are hopelessly dependent on the uncle sugar, and most of these people know that and they just dont give a damn. That is a recipe for some very bad stuff goin down.

Anyone who can afford to put 50% of their salary away each month is already wealthy.

Everyone else will be living the life of a pauper and suffering from malnourishment and then at the end of their 30 years of saving up they have nothing as it is eaten up by inflation.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Right... And I think someone flipping burgers should make at least a living wage.

So how much is that? $15/hr? $20/Hr? $25/Hr?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by Throckmorton
Right... And I think someone flipping burgers should make at least a living wage.

So how much is that? $15/hr? $20/Hr? $25/Hr?

Well your lowest figure is double minimum wage.

Is there a reason for that perhaps?

 

[Throckmorton]

So how much is that? $15/hr? $20/Hr? $25/Hr?

Here on Maui, yes I would say $15/hr. In Honolulu, NYC, or San Francisco I'd guess $20/hr. In most rural places, maybe as low as $10/hr.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Here on Maui, yes I would say $15/hr. In Honolulu, NYC, or San Francisco I'd guess $20/hr. In most rural places, maybe as low as $10/hr.

You don't think that willmake more people move to the areas with higher pay?

 

[Throckmorton]

You don't think that willmake more people move to the areas with higher pay?

Shouldn't that be what employers want?

 

[ShawnD1]

Right... And I think someone flipping burgers should make at least a living wage.

The problem is that living wage varies from person to person. A teen can live on $2/h. A single parent with 2 kids would need more like $20 per hour. This is why other first world nations tend to socialize things that make up the cost difference. Education is a big burden for anyone who has kids, so education is ~free. Day care is a burden for people with kids, so day care is ~free in some countries. Once all of that stuff is taken care of, everyone needs roughly the same living wage, and $7/h is enough to cover it.

Setting the minimum wage to $20/h creates a whole new set of problems. Suddenly you have this enormous gap where teens who can find a job are driving BMWs and single parents can't even afford a car because their kids daycare eats half their pay check. Socialism is supposed to make people more equal, and that is not accomplished by raising all wages.

You don't think that willmake more people move to the areas with higher pay?

Higher pay doesn't mean richer. A farm boy making $10 in the middle of nowhere has a lot more money than a guy making $20 in NYC. Here in Edmonton, the cheapest crack apartment you can possibly find is about $750/month. Out in assfuck nowhere you can live for peanuts.

 

[Throckmorton]

The problem is that living wage varies from person to person. A teen can live in $2. A single parent with 2 kids would need more like $20 per hour. This is why other first world nations tend to socialize things that make up the cost difference. Education is a big burden for anyone who has kids, so education is ~free. Day care is a burden for people with kids, so day care is ~free in some countries. Once all of that stuff is taken care of, everyone needs roughly the same living wage, and $7/h is enough to cover it.

Setting the minimum wage to $20/h creates a whole new set of problems. Suddenly you have this enormous gap where teens who can find a job are driving BMWs and single parents can't even afford a car because their kids daycare eats half their pay check. Socialism is supposed to make people more equal, and that is not accomplished by raising all wages.

That will never happen in America. Too much prejudice against the welfare state.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Shouldn't that be what employers want?

If there's a limited amount of jobs why would you want or need more workers?

 

[Throckmorton]

If there's a limited amount of jobs why would you want or need more workers?

So that you can pick the best ones.

 

[MovingTarget]

So that you can pick the best ones.

...or the ones willing to work for the smallest amount of peanuts.

 

[Throckmorton]

...or the ones willing to work for the smallest amount of peanuts.

Well if there's a living wage mandate, the smallest amount of peanuts would still be enough to survive.

 

[MovingTarget]

Well if there's a living wage mandate, the smallest amount of peanuts would still be enough to survive.

Indeed. This is why we need a living wage mandate. :thumbsup:

 

[Throckmorton]

BTW, Australia has a living wage law, and their economy is doing fine. It's $16.62/hr (15.51 AUD)

That's right, even McDonald's in Australia pays $16.62/hr. And they're making a profit, otherwise they wouldn't have restaurants there.

 

[NetGuySC]

If the national minimum wage was set to $100 per hour would that solve the living wage issue? Would $500 per hour do it?
Does anyone here think either would solve anything, or would prices very quickly rise to compensate and unskilled citizens would once again have to struggle economically.?

 

[Throckmorton]

If the national minimum wage was set to $100 per hour would that solve the living wage issue? Would $500 per hour do it?
Does anyone here think either would solve anything, or would prices very quickly rise to compensate and unskilled citizens would once again have to struggle economically.?

That's physically impossible... Without a lot more dollars in the economy. It would require raising almost everybody's wages.

A living wage at the same level as Australia's, $16.62, wouldn't require more dollars, just more of them going to the low level workers and less to the ones at the top.

 

[NetGuySC]

If $16 per hour is good then $100 per hour would be even better.

So if the minimum wage was more than doubled to become $16 per hour, you don't think almost everyone else's wage would also soon be raised ?

At what dollar amount could the minimum wage be raised and not cause price increases of everything?

At what dollar amount could the minimum wage be raised before they are just being paid too much?