HEMI question

[olds]

Originally posted by: galvanizedyankee

I'm not quite sure, but doesn't the new Hemi use two spark plugs per cylinder.

No

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

Originally posted by: galvanizedyankee

I'm not quite sure, but doesn't the new Hemi use two spark plugs per cylinder.

No

I might be wrong, but I thought I had read that somewhere.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

Originally posted by: alkemyst
the hemi never disappeared just stopped being advertised during the miserly period of cars I think was when it died out.

I ran that through the Google translator and still came up with nothing. Could you post that again using capitol letters and punctuation in the correct places?
Just trying to understand.

ahhh you still all upset from the last post how you thought you are supposed to fill a radiator when it's hot and pressurized?

I am sure those of normal intelligence understood me, however, for the slow of brain:

the hemi never disappeared, [it] just stopped being advertised during the miserly period of cars...I think [that] was when it died out.

capiche?

Maybe the short bus has a hemi....

Å

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

According to Allpar it's a dual pluger...ALLPAR.. Referring back to Rogers post. This is done to keep down emissions
because of a lack of combustion chamber efficiency.

At Allpar they note Cadilac's attempt at better mpg with their 4-6-8 engines.
The Hemi will be a 4-8 engine. I hope they do a better job than Cad did with it.:sun:

 

[Tom]

What is good about the new Hemi is it's a brand new design overall, and a very good one, in terms of power output for displacement, for example.

I wouldn't say it's superior to a GM small block which over the years has been the most successful V8 ever, but it's a lot closer than Chrysler has been in quite awhile.

 

[Wolfie]

Originally posted by: galvanizedyankee

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

Originally posted by: galvanizedyankee

I'm not quite sure, but doesn't the new Hemi use two spark plugs per cylinder.

No

I might be wrong, but I thought I had read that somewhere.

Yes the new HEMI does have two spark plugs. Much like the old Datsun. It was the Datsun in the 70's that came out with the double spark plug. One would fire during power stroke and the other would fire during the exhaust stroke. Burned the remaining fuel in the chambers, which reduced emissions. Much like the new engines of today that fire twice to burn excess fuel for better emissions.

The hemi design was the choice for such marques as Duesenburg , Stutz, Miller and Offenhauser.



During World War 11, Chrysler was engaged in the development of aircraft engine and a V-12 tank engine which were to use the hemi head.

James Zeder and Ev Moeller were on the team after the war that looked into the Hemi for Chrysler. They looked at a Healey engine with a Hemi head and found it to be the most efficient design that they had seen.

They built a head for a Chrysler six cylinder engine , and called the experimental unit the A161. It was tested in the real world in a car driven by the head of testing Wallace Zierer. It passed the test and by 1948 they had a 330 cubic engine called the A182 , a V8 with hemi heads.

The Chrysler hemi engines really began as a " back yard " Ford conversion in the early 1940s.

You can also find some more info about the hemi here...
ClassicHemi.com
Attn to the first few date entrys...

I hope this helps to show that the old 426 was NOT the only hemi engine.

Wolfie

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

Originally posted by: alkemyst
the hemi never disappeared just stopped being advertised during the miserly period of cars I think was when it died out.

I ran that through the Google translator and still came up with nothing. Could you post that again using capitol letters and punctuation in the correct places?
Just trying to understand.

ahhh you still all upset from the last post how you thought you are supposed to fill a radiator when it's hot and pressurized?

I am sure those of normal intelligence understood me, however, for the slow of brain:

the hemi never disappeared, [it] just stopped being advertised during the miserly period of cars...I think [that] was when it died out.

capiche?

Maybe the short bus has a hemi....

Å

Actually, no. I was so flabbergasted at your response I concluded that there was no reason to engage you in a battle of wits. While my time isn't all that valuable I did have some crud that I needed to remove from beneath my fingernails. In this instance, I was only trying to understand your point. But alas, you are so intelligent that your thought process moves faster than your fingers can type and it leaves us boors in the dirt. I defer once again to your great intellect and bow humbly in your presence.
In this case, are saying that the hemi was built to the present day?
Carry on my narcissistic friend.

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: Wolfie

Originally posted by: galvanizedyankee

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

Originally posted by: galvanizedyankee

I'm not quite sure, but doesn't the new Hemi use two spark plugs per cylinder.

No

I might be wrong, but I thought I had read that somewhere.

Yes the new HEMI does have two spark plugs...

My bad. I was thinking of the original hemi and didn't even see the word new.
:beer:

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Actually, no. I was so flabbergasted at your response I concluded that there was no reason to engage you in a battle of wits. While my time isn't all that valuable I did have some crud that I needed to remove from beneath my fingernails. In this instance, I was only trying to understand your point. But alas, you are so intelligent that your thought process moves faster than your fingers can type and it leaves us boors in the dirt. I defer once again to your great intellect and bow humbly in your presence.
In this case, are saying that the hemi was built to the present day?
Carry on my narcissistic friend.

This will help explain the Chrysler Hemi's history Some Website, looks good to me....

However hemi's as in hemispherical head have been used elsewhere and are not a chrysler only item, they are just the ones to make it a big marketing gem.

So you are saying the proper way everyone/most people need to follow to make sure they put enough fluid in their cooling system is to do it with a big thick rag and take the cap off while hot and pressurized hoping that thick rag blocks all the coolant and/or you don't make a big mess?

That just seems insane to me and perhaps I got lucky, but I have changed the coolant in about 10 different types of cars and each one I was able to mix up a batch according to the amount in the manual or even by simply filling it cold and never had a problem with low coolant or overheating. A few times I did have to add a touch after running it once and it cooled back down.

Å

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
So you are saying the proper way everyone/most people need to follow to make sure they put enough fluid in their cooling system is to do it with a big thick rag and take the cap off while hot and pressurized hoping that thick rag blocks all the coolant and/or you don't make a big mess?

That just seems insane to me and perhaps I got lucky, but I have changed the coolant in about 10 different types of cars and each one I was able to mix up a batch according to the amount in the manual or even by simply filling it cold and never had a problem with low coolant or overheating. A few times I did have to add a touch after running it once and it cooled back down.

Å

No, not in every case for everyone. In his case it was possible that he never got the system full in the first place. This is my understanding of how coolant systems work:
When motor is hot the coolant pressure will force coolant into he reservoir. As it cools down the coolant will get sucked back into the motor. If you add coolant to the full line when the motor is hot, depending on coolant volume to begin with, the system may actually not be full.
The procedure I described was used all the time before the days of the closed systems. I guess I am still old school when it comes to automobiles.

 

[alkemyst]

In a closed system the proper way is still not hot if you think it's already full...there is a 'hot opening' step but it's not right off the bat.

(all fluid being added should be a premixed solution of anti-freeze, water and any addictives you'd like)

Open the cap with a cold engine. Fill it up to the neck of the radiator. Start the engine and run it. As the engine warms the coolant will start to rise, stop filing as this happens and slowly add if it's not going to overflow. Then when it stays at the top install the cap. Let then engine continue to run until the thermostat opens and the coolant flows (on a modern closed system the fan should kick on when the thermostat is now open, an older car the upper radiator hose should get noticibly hotter...I always use the upper radiator hose to check). Now this is the step where is it hot and you open it....Open slowly with a large rag to relieve any pressure that has built up, it should be mostly air (if the system was low to begin with)...instead of hot coolant and since the thermostat is open a lot less pressure. The coolant should appear low, top it off again, then install the cap, fill the surge tank to the hot mark (if you have one) and go drive it for a few miles and repeat the process if needed.

Å

 

Open the cap with a cold engine. Fill it up to the neck of the radiator. Start the engine and run it. As the engine warms the coolant will start to rise, stop filing as this happens and slowly add if it's not going to overflow. Then when it stays at the top install the cap. Let then engine continue to run until the thermostat opens and the coolant flows (on a modern closed system the fan should kick on when the thermostat is now open, an older car the upper radiator hose should get noticibly hotter...I always use the upper radiator hose to check). Now this is the step where is it hot and you open it....Open slowly with a large rag to relieve any pressure that has built up, it should be mostly air (if the system was low to begin with)...instead of hot coolant and since the thermostat is open a lot less pressure. The coolant should appear low, top it off again, then install the cap, fill the surge tank to the hot mark (if you have one) and go drive it for a few miles and repeat the process if needed.

The pressure in the cooling system is not from the pump, it's from the expanding coolant as it heats up.

The closed cooling system came about to reduce cooling system corrosion, this is accomplished because the older total loss cooling system allowed air to enter the radiator upon cool down, this accelerated the corrosion process, the engineers in their infinite wisdom decided to dump the expanding coolant into a reservoir, upon cool down the reservoir coolant is drawn back into the radiator, thus eliminating the air.

There is absolutely no need what-so-ever to continually top off the radiator when filling, just fill it cold, fill the reservoir and drive, upon cool down the system will automatically refill itself.

 

[BillGates]

Hemi = Redneck Marketing

 

[TechnoKid]

The new Mercedes benz have two spark plugs per cylinder when I last looked in the vehicle brochure for the C-class (cept for the 4cyl).

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Roger

Open the cap with a cold engine. Fill it up to the neck of the radiator. Start the engine and run it. As the engine warms the coolant will start to rise, stop filing as this happens and slowly add if it's not going to overflow. Then when it stays at the top install the cap. Let then engine continue to run until the thermostat opens and the coolant flows (on a modern closed system the fan should kick on when the thermostat is now open, an older car the upper radiator hose should get noticibly hotter...I always use the upper radiator hose to check). Now this is the step where is it hot and you open it....Open slowly with a large rag to relieve any pressure that has built up, it should be mostly air (if the system was low to begin with)...instead of hot coolant and since the thermostat is open a lot less pressure. The coolant should appear low, top it off again, then install the cap, fill the surge tank to the hot mark (if you have one) and go drive it for a few miles and repeat the process if needed.

The pressure in the cooling system is not from the pump, it's from the expanding coolant as it heats up.

The closed cooling system came about to reduce cooling system corrosion, this is accomplished because the older total loss cooling system allowed air to enter the radiator upon cool down, this accelerated the corrosion process, the engineers in their infinite wisdom decided to dump the expanding coolant into a reservoir, upon cool down the reservoir coolant is drawn back into the radiator, thus eliminating the air.

There is absolutely no need what-so-ever to continually top off the radiator when filling, just fill it cold, fill the reservoir and drive, upon cool down the system will automatically refill itself.

Right...however with the thermostat open you have a place for more pressure to go. Also if you drain a system completely and refill without letting the thermostat open I have found more often than not you can't get the full 'fill' recommendation in at all and once that thermostat opens you now can.

Å

 

Right...however with the thermostat open you have a place for more pressure to go. Also if you drain a system completely and refill without letting the thermostat open I have found more often than not you can't get the full 'fill' recommendation in at all and once that thermostat opens you now can.

Not true, the pressure stays the same, the pressure is equalized throughout the system because the lower radiator is connected to the block.
The thermostat is just a doorway that opens and closes in a system that is closed to the atmosphere, therefor the pressure is the same throughout the system regardless of the position of the thermostat.

I have found more often than not you can't get the full 'fill' recommendation in at all and once that thermostat opens you now can.

This is true, but there is no need to open a radiator cap while the system is hot and under pressure (Which can be extremely dangerous), just leave the cap off in the first place, warm up the engine, when the thermostat opens, the level will drop, fill to the top and be on your way.

 

[alkemyst]

that does work on the cars I have used, I just wasn't sure if that works on all....everywhere I saw looking said you have to heat it up with the radiator closed.....it's only 160-200F so I'd imagine any engine would heat the water up that much or more open.

some say also that whenever the 'fan' is on the thermostat is open....I don't know if that is true either. I have not seen any thermostat with a sensor actually going to it.

 

[mike2fix]

I hope this helps to show that the old 426 was NOT the only hemi engine.

The 426 was the only Hemi that mattered, an awsome machine.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Originally posted by: mike2fix

I hope this helps to show that the old 426 was NOT the only hemi engine.

The 426 was the only Hemi that mattered, an awsome machine.

Are you discounting a 392 THE Hemi that launched serious drag racing. At 16 years of age
I tore down used ones and hot tanked them. I worked for Reath Automotive an early
stroker crank manufacture. That was the motor of the 50's .

 

[mike2fix]

Certainly not, the 392 was the predecessor to the 426, but the 426 was the culmination of quite a bit of research and developement. I doubt many of the folks here have ever even heard of the 426 Hemi, much less the 392. Yes, our age is showing. The 426 Hemi cars were/are considered one of the truly great horsepower monsters from the days of real musclecars. Even in street trim, it was a beast to drive and to maintain but went like the devil.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: mike2fix
Certainly not, the 392 was the predecessor to the 426, but the 426 was the culmination of quite a bit of research and developement. I doubt many of the folks here have ever even heard of the 426 Hemi, much less the 392. Yes, our age is showing. The 426 Hemi cars were/are considered one of the truly great horsepower monsters from the days of real musclecars. Even in street trim, it was a beast to drive and to maintain but went like the devil.

as the devil, I can say I am not very fast.

Å

 

It disappeard because of emissions and fuel efficiency standards in the 70s.

 

[mike2fix]

Those issues were certainly a problem, but I think what is generally regarded as the cause of death for most Musclecars, was the Insurance industry. That was why manufacturers went to net at the rear wheel horsepower ratings in 1971. The numbers were much lower, numerically and that placated the Insurance industry for a short time.

 

[alkemyst]

They aren't measuring rear wheel HP, with 'NET' HP, it's still the power at the flywheel....very few (if any) manufacturers record RWHP figures....it would make them look 'weak' to other car's figures.

Gross HP testing was done with "open" dyno exhaust (usually tuned headers) and high octane gas, but without an air cleaner or belt driven accessories (sometimes not even the water pump, they'd have a separate pump controlling water flow). The timing was continually adjusted (an engineer would tweak the distributor for every recorded RPM for max power...in the end they'd figure out what made the freaking engine run right all the time)...a favorable standard correction factor of 29.92 in/hg at 60 (some say 59) degrees F dry air.

Net HP testing the engine is dressed with all accessory drive systems ... and a full production exhaust system and is tuned to safe, real world fuel and spark curves, and the result is corrected to 29.94 in/hg at 77 F dry air. Net is inaccurate for many turbo engines (probably one of the reasons all independent tests of the Neon SRT4 are reporting way higher than factory numbers). A special classification of NET HP is SAE Net (which many auto makers don't use) uses a 3 car average.

Just the atm and temp differences account for a 3% difference in the two power levels....yet alone all other changes.

Now this made a big difference, in 1971, Chevy rated with both: the LT-1 was rated 330HP gross and 275HP net, LS-5 454 365HP gross and 285HP net, the LS-6 454 425HP gross and 325HP net....that's 100HP different!

I am not sure if they switched to net to help disguise some of the emissions drag the EPA was mandating and some have said it was due to insurance companies, and of course marketing played a big role....but in 1971 the death bell rang in the muscle car world and it was over a decade until performace became sought after....right now we are seeing the most powerful cars ever displacement for displacement.

Å

 

[Brutuskend]

Originally posted by: redly1
HEMI this HEMI that, blah blah blah

Why did the HEMI engine disappear for ~30 yrs? What was it's downfall? Could/has the technology be incorporated into 6 or 4 cylinder engines?

just curious

My Mitsubishi 2.8L four cylinder is a Hemi.