helping with web hosting service

[watts3000]

Guys I'm helping a friend setup a web hosting service for our area. In this area there is a lot of small businesss who would like a web Presence but they don't really Know how to go about it. If you guys could have a utilmate hosting company what all would this company have. I mean what services would they offer such as database connectivity coldfusion access. Or anything else you think would be cool. Do you also think windows 2000 server boxes running iis is ok. And what type of internet access I mean would a business flavor of dsl be ok or should we think higher than that such as a frac t1. Since we are attemting to lower cost I would go go with dsl to start. Just want to know what you guys think.

 

[Dundain]

I'd say access speed depends upon how many connections your going to be serving, how many webpages, etc. DSL might work for a while, but its uptime isnt generally as good as that with a T1 line and your not going to see upload speeds as fast/steady as you likely would from the T1.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Some of the cheaper T1's are really just SDSL right now, from what I hear.

Anyhow, my ultimate company would have:
redundant connections from different isps
UNIX hosting
airconditioned server room
good physical security
24/7 monitoring
preferably IDS and firewalling options (mostly for co-lo setups probably, but an IDS and firewall for their webhosting would be nice too)
SQL connectivity
PHP, coldfusion, perl, asp, etc (PHP being my preference)
UPS and generator in case of power outage

 

[Goosemaster]

yeah..listen to n)cmonkey...it's not as simple as it sounds....actually it is..but just REALLY REALLY expensive.. I assume most host already have a forthcoming clientel before they even start to setup.

In addition, hosting is so cheap these days, you would never make a profit unless you got thousands and thousands of subscribers, and people would most certainly get a better deal and greater feuatures than you could provide...

If you have a Hellava lot of capiotal go for it..otherwise..

As for the line, you will need at least 2 t1 backbones, if not an oc3. Most good host have at least dual oc3 backbones for redundancy, speed and capacity, and others even have oc12s and up. A single T1 will not cut it... I could max that out in a few seconds.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Another solution would be to invest in a rack at an established co-lo facility. You can then either resell (sometimes allowed) your space and/or provide servers to host sites on. It will help cut down on some expenses, but others will be greater. Of course, you wont have to worry as much about the 24/7 monitoring and whatnot.

 

[watts3000]

Ok explain what you mean by physical security and also 24/7 monitoring also could you elabortate on
this "Another solution would be to invest in a rack at an established co-lo facility. You can then either resell (sometimes allowed) your space and/or provide servers to host sites on. It will help cut down on some expenses, but others will be greater. Of course, you wont have to worry as much about the 24/7 monitoring and whatnot. "

 

[n0cmonkey]

<< Ok explain what you mean by physical security >>



No matter how well you secure your network, if an intruder can walk up to the machine you are screwed. Biometrics, cameras, motion detectors, ID cards and the likes help with physical security. Think of your setup as a bank vault. You want to keep most people out.



<< and also 24/7 monitoring >>



What happens when (not if, but when) something goes down at 3am? Who will notice? Hopefully you notice before your customers. Someone should be monitoring the setup 24/7 to make sure everything is working, checking an IDS (if you have one) reading logs, and helping keep the physical security working.



<< so could you elabortate on
this "Another solution would be to invest in a rack at an established co-lo facility. You can then either resell (sometimes allowed) your space and/or provide servers to host sites on. It will help cut down on some expenses, but others will be greater. Of course, you wont have to worry as much about the 24/7 monitoring and whatnot. " >>



Rent a rack at a co-location facility. Resell your space for other people that want to setup co-lo machines instead of letting your host their sites (be *VERY* picky about what you resell to ). You put a server or two in your rack and sell hosting services off of those. The co-lo company will do the 24/7 monitoring, electricity backup, much of the filtering (sometimes for extra fees), etc.

 

[watts3000]

n0cmonkey for a good 24/7 monotoring system what would you recommend, and can this be out sourced. If so who is a good company for outsourcing we can take care of the physical security problem; also for the things you wanted in a company we already own full commercial copies of coldfusion server. We can provide asp and asp.net and jsp access we also own commercial copies of office 2000 and a xp and sql server 2000 for database access. I will also give windows media and quicktime streaming media access. I have really not thought about real player yet ok far as your php since I'm manily familiar with windows can this be ran off of a windows box if I'm correct apache will support php I've set up a version of apache on a 2000 server box for testing, and will apache perform just as well on widows as it will on linux. I know some programs don't perform as well when you take them away from there native platforms.

 

[jkukowsk]

<< n0cmonkey for a good 24/7 monotoring system what would you recommend and can this be out sourced if so who is a good company for outsourcing we can take care of the physical security problem also for the things you wanted in a company we already own full commercial copies of coldfusion server we can provide asp and asp.net and jsp access we also l own commercial copies of office 2000 and a xp and sql server 2000 for database access. I will also give windows media and quicktime streaming media access I have really not thought about real player yet ok far as your php since I'm manily familiar with windows can this be ran off of a windows box if I'm correct apache will support php I've set up a version of apache on a 2000 server box for testing and will apache perform just as well on widows as it will on linux I know some programs don't perform as well when you take them away from there native platforms >>



Please put a few more periods in this paragraph. I think you wanted to know if PHP and Apache could be run off of Windows, yes it can. I am doing it on my home server to test my PHP scripting ability .

 

[n0cmonkey]

I dont know any 24/7 physical security companies (except for maybe a rent-a-cop), but there are plenty of places with security alarms and stuff. php will work just fine in Windows.

 

[Wizkid]

Business DSL is good enough to start with... I'm doing the same thing and business DSL is working well for me.

I recommend that you use linux/bsd instead of Windows. First of all, windows is more difficult to secure (and firewalls costs $$ verses iptables for linux which is free). Second, Windows is *VERY* expensive. You need to buy email servers, sql servers, windows 2000 server, etc. You cannot use NFR or any other discounted licenses for a commercial server. For SQL server you need a "per processor" license to use it on the Internet. It gets expensive very quickly.

Most of what you need for Linux is free, however you need to invest some time in learning it. You should also consider getting a control panel for your users. Check here: Plesk

If you have any questions feel free to email me.

 

[watts3000]

Yea you are right it does get expensive but we own serveral commercial software packages already. I want to try linux but windows is what I know and since I'm charging people I'll go with what I know for know. But I have recently built a machine thats running redhat 7.2 that I'm traing on. Also what do you guys think about using cable to run off of I have heard that dsl is more secure and I know thats it dedicated bandwidth . This a price list from roadrunner

SOHO PACKAGES Bandwidth* 1 Dynamic 1 Static 5 Static
SOHO Lite 512K down x256K up $54.95 $94.90 $114.90
SOHO Basic 1M down x 256K up $59.95 $99.90 $119.90
SOHO Pro 512K down x 512K up $69.95 $109.90 $129.90


LAN Package Chart Bandwidth* 5 Dynamic 1 Static 5 Static
LAN Basic 2M down x 384K up $129.90 $169.85 $189.85
LAN Plus 1.5M down x 768K up $149.95 $189.90 $209.90
LAN Broadband 1M down x 1M up $299.95 $339.90 $359.90
LAN Broadband Plus 1.5M down x 1.5M up $399.95 $459.90 $479.90
LAN Enterprise 4M down x 2M up $999.95 $999.95 $999.95

 

[n0cmonkey]

Cable can be fine. Ive talked with admins at companies that have done it.

What kind of UPS system and generators are you looking at?

 

[watts3000]

I was hopeing you could recommend some products I know about the general ups thats put out by apc but I don't know any more ones that might be used in the industry. Also from my last post what type of 24/7 monitoring system do you recommend

 

[n0cmonkey]

<< I was hopeing you could recommend some products I know about the general ups thats put out by apc but I don't know any more ones that might be used in the industry. >>



APC is a good bet. Take a look at their larger enterprise edition stuff. Its expensive (several THOUSAND dollars), but it will be worth it to you and your customers. Cant help you with generators though.



<< Also from my last post what type of 24/7 monitoring system do you recommend >>



It depends on what you want to monitor. There should always be someone on call, if you cannot have someone in the LAN room at all times. linkanalyst can be used to help make sure everything is up and running. It seems to be very configurable.

For an IDS system you will have problems. The "real time" (doesnt really exist) monitoring programs are all *VERY* expensive. So are analysts, but they are worth the money (if they are any good). But a simple Snort + ACID interface should be good enough for checking IDS alarms throughout the day.

At minimum you should start carrying a pager. The pager (or cellphone) should be able to recieve email, and linkanalyst (or similar program) could email that pager/phone with alarms. Customers should also get the pager/cell number in case they have an emergency or something in the middle of the night.