Help with SFF Mini-ITX build

[SP33Demon]

Wait, how many PWM fans will you have? Check the motherboard. Some ITX boards only have two fan headers.

Hey Zap, I'll have 3. But the two Arctic Cooling F8's are daisy chained (up to 5 at a time!) on a single PWM case fan signal:
http://www.quietpc.com/ac-arctic-f8-pwm

Other solutions like Noctua have a Y-cable as well but decided to go 67.5% cheaper with the Arctic Cooling F8's ($6.50 vs $20.00 apiece). What do you think? 92mm regular size fan should be a beast, and combined with triple PWM, cooling should be optimized.

If I wanted to add a Graphics card, what would you recommend?

 

[mfenn]

If I wanted to add a Graphics card, what would you recommend?

Depends on what you want to do with the machine. Gaming? General use? 3D Modeling?

 

[SP33Demon]

Depends on what you want to do with the machine. Gaming? General use? 3D Modeling?

Gaming. Mainly play Moba's like LoL or Smite for fun.

 

[mfenn]

Gaming. Mainly play Moba's like LoL or Smite for fun.

In that case, you can get away with something small and cheap like the 7750.

 

[Zap]

At $70 shipped, I had to snag another ISK 300-150. I plan to hack one of them up, plus new ones have USB 3.0 (Newegg review in August mentioned it, some other retailers mention it in description).

I want to actually shoehorn a more powerful PSU into the casing, plus mod the PSU cable so it doesn't cover the CPU, cut the PSU grill and seal the fans to the exterior using weatherstripping. The guy that started this thread gave me those ideas, except for the PSU part. Others have put Flex ATX PSUs into these. I just want to do it with an 80mm fan.

Hey Zap, I'll have 3. But the two Arctic Cooling F8's are daisy chained (up to 5 at a time!) on a single PWM case fan signal:
http://www.quietpc.com/ac-arctic-f8-pwm

Let me know how you like those fans.

In that case, you can get away with something small and cheap like the 7750.

No, don't get that card. You need a low profile card for the Antec ISK 300.

Low profile Radeon 7750

Feel free to shop around or wait for a deal, since popping one of these in is easy.

Do not get the HIS, because the cooler makes it a double slot card.

The VisionTek with the gold heatsink has strange outputs. If you are primarily using DVI, look elsewhere because you would have to use a dongle.

The VisionTek with the black heatsink and the PowerColor are going to be a bit noisier due to their blower fan.

The Sapphire is what I bought. Been happy with their 6670 low profile and got the 7750 as well. Fan should be reasonably quiet, and plenty of fins and mass on the heatsink for cooling. It also supports triple monitors with micro HDMI and mini DisplayPort alongside the standard DVI.

 

[SP33Demon]

At $70 shipped, I had to snag another ISK 300-150. I plan to hack one of them up, plus new ones have USB 3.0 (Newegg review in August mentioned it, some other retailers mention it in description).

I want to actually shoehorn a more powerful PSU into the casing, plus mod the PSU cable so it doesn't cover the CPU, cut the PSU grill and seal the fans to the exterior using weatherstripping. The guy that started this thread gave me those ideas, except for the PSU part. Others have put Flex ATX PSUs into these. I just want to do it with an 80mm fan.



Let me know how you like those fans.



No, don't get that card. You need a low profile card for the Antec ISK 300.

Low profile Radeon 7750

Feel free to shop around or wait for a deal, since popping one of these in is easy.

Do not get the HIS, because the cooler makes it a double slot card.

The VisionTek with the gold heatsink has strange outputs. If you are primarily using DVI, look elsewhere because you would have to use a dongle.

The VisionTek with the black heatsink and the PowerColor are going to be a bit noisier due to their blower fan.

The Sapphire is what I bought. Been happy with their 6670 low profile and got the 7750 as well. Fan should be reasonably quiet, and plenty of fins and mass on the heatsink for cooling. It also supports triple monitors with micro HDMI and mini DisplayPort alongside the standard DVI.

Thanks for the info mfenn and Zap on the cards. Zap, yeah looks like I'll go with the low profile like you did, no reason to reinvent the wheel. I am a little worried about the Noctua 93mmx93mm heatsink blocking the PCIe slot too much, but I'll install it tonight and take measurements. I haven't seen any reviews of the Noctua in this case yet but I should be ok since it conforms to the Intel keep out zone. Furthermore, I measured how high the clearance would need to be to fit under the dam power supply nub. Answer-55mm high is the most we have to work with. I should be right under that with the Noctua heatsink/Scythe 92mm fan.

I'll keep an eye out on that card since everything is so cheap this time of year. After Christmas sales are usually decent too.

Very excited to see how you mod that Power Supply nub over the CPU! If it weren't for that, at least we'd have the option of going bigger on the heatsink (such as Scythe Shuriken Rev. B - although not sure it'd have enough clearance for a graphics card and optical drive). Rev. B is probably overkill, let's see what temps I get with the 92mm fan before getting crazy about cooling.

That would be awesome to just cut the PSU grill, and then mod a Flex PSU so the 3-Prong female is facing out, flush with the side of the case. That's how the case should been built in the first place. Are you going to use a dremel? I was thinking about doing that over the xmas break but not sure how to screw/bolt down a PSU, and which one to get, i.e. size wise that would fit snug.

From your hardforum link and question you asked, it doesn't look like he modded the rear power cord jack? I could be wrong though.

All the parts just arrived yesterday, I'll let you know how I like the PWM fans. I cloned the hard drive last night so I'm ready to rumble. Pics to follow sometime this weekend.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

id like to build a system just like this but i doubt 150w would be enough. it may power up but it will probably buzz and not last very long

 

[SP33Demon]

id like to build a system just like this but i doubt 150w would be enough. it may power up but it will probably buzz and not last very long

Huh? Why wouldn't it last long?

Depending on how easy it is to mod the case PSU grill (Zap is trying it out), it should be possible to upgrade to a higher wattage if needed. Someone already upgraded to a 2xx Watt Seasonic, Zap linked to it earlier in the thread.

If Mini-ITX will play your favorite game on high settings, then I don't see the point in going with a full case anymore. Since it's catching on, better cooling options will continue to come out like the recent Noctua NH-L9i.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

Huh? Why wouldn't it last long?

Depending on how easy it is to mod the case PSU grill (Zap is trying it out), it should be possible to upgrade to a higher wattage if needed. Someone already upgraded to a 2xx Watt Seasonic, Zap linked to it earlier in the thread.

If Mini-ITX will play your favorite game on high settings, then I don't see the point in going with a full case anymore. Since it's catching on, better cooling options will continue to come out like the recent Noctua NH-L9i.

it doesnt use any type of standard power supply right? arent they designed to be used with atom chips? i personally dont want to mod something other than screwing in a part that already fits

 

[mfenn]

No, don't get that card. You need a low profile card for the Antec ISK 300.

Low profile Radeon 7750

Whoops, I had for some reason assumed that the GPU was on the other axis of the case. The little external PCI bracket must have gotten me thinking of the MI-008 and derivatives.

 

[Zap]

That would be awesome to just cut the PSU grill, and then mod a Flex PSU so the 3-Prong female is facing out, flush with the side of the case. That's how the case should been built in the first place. Are you going to use a dremel? I was thinking about doing that over the xmas break but not sure how to screw/bolt down a PSU, and which one to get, i.e. size wise that would fit snug.

This is what I meant by cutting the grill of the existing PSU. See, the case has a grill and the PSU has a grill, so the air has to go through both.

Cutting the grill of the PSU instead of the case is the better idea for two reasons.
1) Grills closer to the fan can cause noise.
2) It doesn't change the way the exterior looks.

For a replacement PSU, that Seasonic I linked to is reasonably good quality and inexpensive, and is very similar in size/shape. 250W is totally more than any hardware you can physically shove into the case can pull. If you took the stock PSU and cut off half the fan so that nothing stuck out, it would be the same size as the Seasonic PSU. The only problem then is the power cord. On the stock PSU it comes out the other end as a cable, with the jack on the back of the case.

If I swapped, I would try to gut the two PSUs and shove the Seasonic guts into the stock PSU casing.

Very excited to see how you mod that Power Supply nub over the CPU! If it weren't for that, at least we'd have the option of going bigger on the heatsink
...
From your hardforum link and question you asked, it doesn't look like he modded the rear power cord jack? I could be wrong though.

Here it is. You can see how it is routed on the edge of the metal rail. This is what he said.

"removing the heatshrink covering the IEC jack and the filter. The filter originally pointed towards the PSU, but that would block the heatsink, so I turned it upwards."

id like to build a system just like this but i doubt 150w would be enough. it may power up but it will probably buzz and not last very long

Don't doubt. Use a Kill-A-Watt to find out what your system really uses. Results will surprise you.

FWIW my stock clocked 2500K and Radeon 6670 system would draw up to 138W while gaming. That number is from the wall, so the PSU is only putting out around 100W at the time (this 150W PSU is not super efficient, around 70%).

It will be fine as long as you aren't using higher wattage AMD CPUs/APUs and graphics cards that requires more power (there has been low profile cards requiring a 6-pin PCIe power). Also, don't run synthetic torture tests because those are designed to push more wattage through a system than most would actually see under normal use.

it doesnt use any type of standard power supply right? arent they designed to be used with atom chips? i personally dont want to mod something other than screwing in a part that already fits

The PSU conforms to ATX specification for voltages and connectors. What more do you need? It has a 24-pin plug for your motherboard and a secondary plug for the 4-pin. There are two SATA power connectors and one mini SATA, corresponding to all the drive bays the case has. There are also two peripheral and one FDD connector, for what reason IDK.

Here is a review of this PSU running on a load tester. Yes it can actually put out every single one of the 150W, and do it within ATX specifications for voltage and ripple.

 

[SP33Demon]

This is what I meant by cutting the grill of the existing PSU. See, the case has a grill and the PSU has a grill, so the air has to go through both.

Cutting the grill of the PSU instead of the case is the better idea for two reasons.
1) Grills closer to the fan can cause noise.
2) It doesn't change the way the exterior looks.

For a replacement PSU, that Seasonic I linked to is reasonably good quality and inexpensive, and is very similar in size/shape. 250W is totally more than any hardware you can physically shove into the case can pull. If you took the stock PSU and cut off half the fan so that nothing stuck out, it would be the same size as the Seasonic PSU. The only problem then is the power cord. On the stock PSU it comes out the other end as a cable, with the jack on the back of the case.

If I swapped, I would try to gut the two PSUs and shove the Seasonic guts into the stock PSU casing.



Here it is. You can see how it is routed on the edge of the metal rail. This is what he said.

"removing the heatshrink covering the IEC jack and the filter. The filter originally pointed towards the PSU, but that would block the heatsink, so I turned it upwards."

Don't doubt. Use a Kill-A-Watt to find out what your system really uses. Results will surprise you.

FWIW my stock clocked 2500K and Radeon 6670 system would draw up to 138W while gaming. That number is from the wall, so the PSU is only putting out around 100W at the time (this 150W PSU is not super efficient, around 70%).

It will be fine as long as you aren't using higher wattage AMD CPUs/APUs and graphics cards that requires more power (there has been low profile cards requiring a 6-pin PCIe power). Also, don't run synthetic torture tests because those are designed to push more wattage through a system than most would actually see under normal use.



The PSU conforms to ATX specification for voltages and connectors. What more do you need? It has a 24-pin plug for your motherboard and a secondary plug for the 4-pin. There are two SATA power connectors and one mini SATA, corresponding to all the drive bays the case has. There are also two peripheral and one FDD connector, for what reason IDK.

Here is a review of this PSU running on a load tester. Yes it can actually put out every single one of the 150W, and do it within ATX specifications for voltage and ripple.

Very cool on the mod Zap. What tool did you use to cut out the grill?

I'm having issues with the Noctua heatsink not seating all the way down onto the CPU because of the transistor knob sticking up (right next to the PCIe slot) and blocking it from going all the way down. It's hard to see if it was seating correctly. It appeared to be, but when I hooked everything up, it won't POST and only the fans are running. So I'm pretty sure it's not the mobo, the Hard Drive works fine, so that leaves the RAM or CPU. Going to try it with the stock cooler tonight and see if I can get anything to display. Not sure if the CPU or mobo can sense if a heatsink isn't putting a certain amount of pressure on it, but I'm better it's something related to that since the thermal paste wasn't spreading evenly after seating.

 

[Zap]

Those aren't my pictures. I linked to the original in an earlier post.

Motherboard won't POST? Reset the CMOS using the button on the I/O area. I have two of those ASRock Z77E-ITX boards and both of them required that step before they would POST.

 

[SP33Demon]

Those aren't my pictures. I linked to the original in an earlier post.

Motherboard won't POST? Reset the CMOS using the button on the I/O area. I have two of those ASRock Z77E-ITX boards and both of them required that step before they would POST.

I hit the CMOS Reset button before connecting the power cable to the PSU. I even took the CMOS battery out to reset it, and tried a couple times without the RAM too. Hell I even did the 2-3 CMOS jumper clear. I still can't get anything on a brand new monitor (which I know works), connected via DVI. I'm running out of ideas, even after putting on the stock cooler nothing is appearing on the screen.

Are you connecting anything to the 8 pin ATX 12V on the mobo? That's one thing that I'm not doing, but that cord isn't part of the Antec 150W Power Supply and I doubt it's needed.

I wonder if Microcenter would let me do an exchange for both the mobo and CPU? That's what I may have to do.

 

[mfenn]

Are you connecting anything to the 8 pin ATX 12V on the mobo? That's one thing that I'm not doing, but that cord isn't part of the Antec 150W Power Supply and I doubt it's needed.

Well, there's your problem! You definitely need to have at least an ATX 12V 4-pin plugged into the 8-pin socket (it plugs into one side). That's what provides the main power to the CPU and the board won't boot without it. According to my digging, PSU should have an ATX 12V 4-pin cable included.

 

[SP33Demon]

Well, there's your problem! You definitely need to have at least an ATX 12V 4-pin plugged into the 8-pin socket (it plugs into one side). That's what provides the main power to the CPU and the board won't boot without it. According to my digging, PSU should have an ATX 12V 4-pin cable included.

Doh, that fixed it! Knew it was probably something simple. Thanks mfenn.

Ordered some metal cutting and grinding Dremel attachments today + cutting oil. I'm going to cut a notch out of the heatsink fins to fit the transistor that is in the way so the Noctua can properly seat. Also going to cut the PSU grill like in the pics that Zap linked. Then clean it up with zipties - weekend project is set.

 

[Zap]

Pics!

Just remember to not get any metal shavings into your electronics. IDK what the guy who took the pics I posted did, but if I were cutting the PSU I would take it completely apart. About the only way you can cut cleanly without metal shavings is if you used a nibbler of some kind and made sure you caught all the bits that comes out.

 

[SP33Demon]

Pics!

Just remember to not get any metal shavings into your electronics. IDK what the guy who took the pics I posted did, but if I were cutting the PSU I would take it completely apart. About the only way you can cut cleanly without metal shavings is if you used a nibbler of some kind and made sure you caught all the bits that comes out.

It's all done!

The PSU grill dremeled out, not pretty but gets the job done:

The fan installed:

The Noctua bracket cut, I had to go a little wide since the disc is big. Not the cleanest but got the job done. If you get this heatsink, you *could* just take that bracket off. However, you lose 2 screw supports for the 92mm fan, and I routed cables behind the screws so YMMV:

I had to file the top of the backplate opening since it didn't fit. Not sure if you ran into this problem as well?

Here you can see that I used the PCIe slot to route cables. This is before the SATA top shelf connections (optical drive, SSD) are in place:

Cable management after the optical drive and SSD are installed:

Now I need to check temps, and try to overclock it to 4.0 or higher for fun! Temps are in around 35.5 C just during regular use and fans @"Full On". Not sure if that's good compared to the stock cooling (but should be better!). CPU fan is reporting 2650~ RPM. Note that you have to actually change the Fan settings in the BIOS from "Full On" to Auto and set your desired degree C and fan level. At Full On, it was pretty loud. At Auto, it's quiet.

 

[Zap]

I did not need to cut the I/O opening, but yes it was misaligned.

Yes, even aftermarket HSFs can be noisy. I've found that at stock speeds the stock cooler is both adequate and quiet when a fan profile is set up in BIOS.

How much clearance between the CPU fan and the bracket?

 

[SP33Demon]

I did not need to cut the I/O opening, but yes it was misaligned.

Yes, even aftermarket HSFs can be noisy. I've found that at stock speeds the stock cooler is both adequate and quiet when a fan profile is set up in BIOS.

How much clearance between the CPU fan and the bracket?

Yeah it sucks that Antec can't get the I/O hole right. They've been in business for awhile.

I set mine to auto OC at 4 GHz in the BIOS and it's running great so far. No BSODs.

Clearance between the CPU fan and the bracket is very small, maybe 1-2 mm? Almost touching!

 

[Zap]

Yeah it sucks that Antec can't get the I/O hole right. They've been in business for awhile.

You'd think, right? I've worked with a large Chinese case OEM before on a design, and they botched alignment stuff too. Crazy how that happens. Just a simple "hey let's actually test this case by putting normal parts into it" would have caught the problem before expensive prototypes gets airmailed halfway around the world.

I remember what was wrong with my ISK 300-150. The spacing between the expansion slot and the I/O area was too wide. If you look at a normal case you will see that all the expansion slots are the same width apart (the thin strip of metal separating them) but the space between the top slot and the I/O area is narrower. On this Antec case, this causes the ports on the graphics card to be pushed against the top of the opening and the card to be a bit crooked in the slot.

 

[SP33Demon]

You'd think, right? I've worked with a large Chinese case OEM before on a design, and they botched alignment stuff too. Crazy how that happens. Just a simple "hey let's actually test this case by putting normal parts into it" would have caught the problem before expensive prototypes gets airmailed halfway around the world.

I remember what was wrong with my ISK 300-150. The spacing between the expansion slot and the I/O area was too wide. If you look at a normal case you will see that all the expansion slots are the same width apart (the thin strip of metal separating them) but the space between the top slot and the I/O area is narrower. On this Antec case, this causes the ports on the graphics card to be pushed against the top of the opening and the card to be a bit crooked in the slot.

Yeah a good file should fix it. I used a Victorinox Utility Tool that has one, works like a charm although had to use earplugs b/c it will make a weird high pitched noise while filing.