Help with QoS settings. (two routers)

[natto fire]

I am sharing an internet connection with a friend who streams a lot of netflix. When he is streaming, my connection becomes so slow that it is almost unusable. I want to set up QoS to effectively split the connection so that only half the bandwidth goes to his computers. My computer is connected through wireless to a WRT54G router which is connected with a cable to a Zyxel PK5000Z which is the router and modem for the DSL connection. His 2 computers are connected to the Zyxel router.

The settings on the WRT54G are DHCP:ON, no static routes (role is Gateway), QoS off. The Cat5 cable is connected to the "internet" port, and wirelessly to my computer. IP of router is 192.168.5.1.

I have messed with the QoS settings on the Zyxel to bump priority of 192.168.0.5 (IP of the WRT54G router on the zyxel ntetwork) but it did not seem to help.

As I just typed this out, I realized I have two separate networks and that is probably why the QoS settings are not working?

 

[Nuwave]

I am sharing an internet connection with a friend who streams a lot of netflix. When he is streaming, my connection becomes so slow that it is almost unusable. I want to set up QoS to effectively split the connection so that only half the bandwidth goes to his computers. My computer is connected through wireless to a WRT54G router which is connected with a cable to a Zyxel PK5000Z which is the router and modem for the DSL connection. His 2 computers are connected to the Zyxel router.

The settings on the WRT54G are DHCP:ON, no static routes (role is Gateway), QoS off. The Cat5 cable is connected to the "internet" port, and wirelessly to my computer. IP of router is 192.168.5.1.

I have messed with the QoS settings on the Zyxel to bump priority of 192.168.0.5 (IP of the WRT54G router on the zyxel ntetwork) but it did not seem to help.

As I just typed this out, I realized I have two separate networks and that is probably why the QoS settings are not working?

When trying to implement QoS you must realise you can only influence data you have control of. You can only apply QoS to data going out to the internet (outgoing). This in turn does have an effect on incoming traffic. However, when it comes to streaming there isn't much outgoing traffic to apply any kind of QoS policy to. Therefore in this case, QoS isn't going to solve your problem at all. You are running into congestion that is applied to you by your ISP. There are 3 solutions to your problem.

1. Increase your incoming bandwidth. You would have to talk to your provider and decide if you are willing to pay more.

2. Make your friend buy his own internet connection.

3. Netflix now supports lower bandwidth options. This will reduce the overall quality of his streaming media, however it should improve your performance.

 

[theevilsharpie]

You can only apply QoS to data going out to the internet (outgoing).

For the type of bandwidth restrictions that the OP wants to do, that's not true.

 

[drebo]

For the type of bandwidth restrictions that the OP wants to do, that's not true.

You can do inbound shaping with TCP traffic, yes. I don't know whether or not Netflix is TCP, though. I suspect it probably isn't.

 

[theevilsharpie]

You can do inbound shaping with TCP traffic, yes. I don't know whether or not Netflix is TCP, though. I suspect it probably isn't.

It almost certainly is.

 

[natto fire]

Thanks for the reply Nuwave. Unfortunately Option 1 is not available for me, as I am in a very rural area, and it is a miracle I can even get DSL, especially the 3mbps tier (just barely close enough to the CO for that.)

I am leaning towards option 2, but I really don't use the connection that much, and mainly need low latency over lots of bandwidth.

Option 3 has been discussed with him, and he supposedly is doing that, but I have not really tried using the connection much since then.

Just to clear things up, I do have the settings correct to raise priority of my traffic?

 

[drebo]

It almost certainly is.

I'd like to know your logic behind that.

TCP is woefully inefficient for any kind of streaming media. Buffering defeats the purpose behind why TCP exists. UDP is far more efficient and was pretty much designed for streaming media.

 

[theevilsharpie]

I'd like to know your logic behind that.

Compatibility.

 

[drebo]

Er, what?

Whatever. You think what you want. I don't have the time or inclination to argue with the ignorant.

 

[theevilsharpie]

Er, what?

Whatever. You think what you want. I don't have the time or inclination to argue with the ignorant.

Lulz. If you don't believe me, just look at the traffic using Wireshark or whatever sniffer you prefer. Hulu streams over HTTP, just like YouTube. I don't have Netflix, but I can almost guarantee you that their streaming occurs over HTTP as well.

 

[Saint Nick]

I think Netflix is likely UDP. VoIP and most streaming/communication is all UDP...no idea why Netflix would be TCP.

This is just speculation.

 

[Crusty]

Netflix uses HTTP over TCP for streaming for their web based Silverlight streaming app. Check it out in a packet sniffer if you don't believe it.

 

[bobdole369]

In any event, the challenge is to attempt to throttle a connection that is sending the OP data, when there is no control over it. You will need something layer 7 to shape this effectively. IOW - it ain't gonna happen.

You can control what goes out of your network, up to the demarc, and thats it. You can't put in any control with any sort of success to slow down traffic coming IN from everywhere on the internet. It just doesn't work that way. You can't say "1.5mb incoming goes to john, an d 1.5mb goes to me."

All you can control is that 256k going out is the maximum, while 192kb of that can be me, and 64kb can be john.

 

[theevilsharpie]

In any event, the challenge is to attempt to throttle a connection that is sending the OP data, when there is no control over it. You will need something layer 7 to shape this effectively. IOW - it ain't gonna happen.

Inbound TCP traffic can be throttled, which is what the OP cares about.

 

[Nuwave]

Inbound TCP traffic can be throttled, which is what the OP cares about.

No you cannot.

I know there is an option in most SOHO routers and even in DD-WRT where you it says you can throttle your incoming connection. "Throttling" at this point along the path back to his house is pointless. Because at this point most people will have a 100Mbps internal network or even 1Gbps. So throttling it down at this point does not create an increase in performance for other applications.

You need to "throttle" what is being sent to you. unfortunately, YOU DO NOT HAVE DIRECT CONTROL over this. If you are throttling down what has already got to your router, you have already used up the LIMITED bandwidth. Throttle anything down beyond the bottle neck would ultimately cause even worse performance.

 

[drebo]

No you cannot.

I know there is an option in most SOHO routers and even in DD-WRT where you it says you can throttle your incoming connection. "Throttling" at this point along the path back to his house is pointless. Because at this point most people will have a 100Mbps internal network or even 1Gbps. So throttling it down at this point does not create an increase in performance for other applications.

You need to "throttle" what is being sent to you. unfortunately, YOU DO NOT HAVE DIRECT CONTROL over this. If you are throttling down what has already got to your router, you have already used up the LIMITED bandwidth. Throttle anything down beyond the bottle neck would ultimately cause even worse performance.

You don't understand the way the TCP protocol works.

TCP can be shaped from the receiving end. It's part of the way that TCP works. When packets are dropped from the stream, by your router, your computer will tell the sending server to resend the packets. The server will see all the retrans requests and will send you packets more slowly, effectively shaping the connection. This occurs at layer 4.

 

[Emulex]

quicktime X has a similar live http streaming. too bad they don't open up the source equally to both sides.

 

[James Bond]

Compatibility.

Wow. No clue what you're talking about.

Maybe sit the next few plays out.

 

[Nuwave]

OP Read http://tomatousb.org/tut:using-tomato-s-qos-system

Near the end it shows a SS with the ability to set differant download rates for IP/mac address. This may be helpful to you.

 

[theevilsharpie]

Wow. No clue what you're talking about.

Maybe sit the next few plays out.

Lulz.

I wonder if there's a reason why James Bond lets Q handle all the technical details :hmm:

 

[kevnich2]

On your WRT54G router you need to either put Tomato or DDWRT firmware. Tomato does handle QOS and bandwidth limiting better. And yes, you CAN limit the inbound bandwidth to certain computers. Since your internet comes into the WRT54G and then into his zyxel, simply put whatever the zyxel router's WAN IP address is and limit the amount of bandwidth it can consume. At that point the WRT54g router will simply limit the downstream bandwidth going to his zyxel router.