Help with New Car Price Negotiation

[tjaisv]

Was wondering if somebody could help me with negotiating a new vehicle that I am looking to buy this week. It's a 2017 Dodge Ram 1500 "Laramie" 4x4 truck with Crew Cab and Long Bed (aka standard 6ft 4" bed). I've done most of my homework on this vehicle and have researched car buying in general, I just have some questions regarding negotiation of the Out-The-Door [OTD] price which is the stage I'm currently in via email with a new dealership's Internet Sales dept (dealer located in Puyallup, WA). First some info:

The window sticker total MSRP with the installed options is $54,215 and total invoice price is $49,830
They sent me a quote that includes several discounts and rebates totaling a deduction of $12,385 (off MSRP) but then they added on to that the Documentation Fee ($150) + Sales Tax ($4741) + Non Tax Fee ($1041) which brought the total OTD price back up to $48,161. [Truecar.com says people in my region are actually paying an average of $45,500+ for this exact vehicle.]

My question is what offer should I make next in my next email to the sales manager. I really want this vehicle for under $40K OTD and perhaps I shouldn't have but I already let him know this, to which he responded that he couldn't do that. The thing is I of course know they COULD do it, since they get the 3% holdback (off MSRP) + the factory to dealer incentives + any other kickbacks and secret rewards/bonuses that they get after they sell it, all of which pads their profits over True Dealer Cost (ie the actual amount the vehicle costs the dealership, which is usually much lower than Invoice). Plus new dealerships often buy their vehicles in fleets which nets them even more cost discounts. I've read that a shrewd negotiator should only allow them a 3-5% profit margin over dealer cost, but in my case since I don't know this truck's true dealer cost, I can't calculate that, I can only guess, and I have no idea how much exactly of what incentives they get beyond the holdback. And even if I did know the true dealer cost, WHAT EXACTLY SHOULD I SAY TO NEGOTIATE THEM DOWN AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO THEIR TRUE BOTTOM LINE?

 

[Kaido]

You've already done the two best steps:

1. Go on Truecar to get a price:

https://www.truecar.com/

2. Buy from the Internet sales person. Don't go into the dealer.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/part-one-internet-vs-traditional-car-buying.html

Sounds like you're already on the right track...see if you can get another dealer in on the game to start a price war!

 

[Stopsignhank]

Email every dealer within 30 miles of you. Ignore your phone when they call. The prices will vary greatly by dealer for the exact same car. You will get the lowest price the easiest way this way.

 

[Kaido]

Email every dealer within 30 miles of you. Ignore your phone when they call. The prices will vary greatly by dealer for the exact same car. You will get the lowest price the easiest way this way.

Alternative Gmail account + free Google Voice account = what I give all the dealers, Truecar, etc.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

What the fuck is "Non Tax Fee ($1041)"? Is that the FU fee?

 

[BoomerD]

I'd go in to the dealership cold. Try to negotiate a better deal. If you can't...walk away.

Sounds like Larson Dodge. We bought a car from them last spring. They're tough...but if you're persistent...and know when to walm away, you can get them to deal.

Also, don't forget to check dealers in the surrounding areas...including West Hills in Bremerton.

 

[postmortemIA]

find high volume dealer closest to you and get quote from them. ideally, you'd get at least 5 quotes.

 

[Svnla]

First of all, IGNORE the MSRP because it is a non issue to the buyer. You are the buyer, you only care to get the lowest price.

Sale tax is one thing you have to pay, just make sure it is the correct rate.

Document fee and the non tax fee of over $1K are too high IMO. Ask them to remove them or lower.

You have to decide which number is the price you can live it and will not give you the buyer remorse (paying too high) later. I would NOT pay higher than the TrueCar average price.

The last time I purchased a brand new vehicle. I got the sale price from a dealer in Dallas and asked the local dealer to match it and I would purchase the vehicle from them that day. Five minutes later, I had a new vehicle.

Remember. You have the one best weapon. You can choose to walk away and get another vehicle from another dealer. The dealer needs you more than vice versa.

 

[BoomerD]

The $150 doc fee is pretty standard...but is usually negotiable. That's supposed to reimburse the dealership for processing the DMV paperwork...but IMO, it's just another "Fuck you. We charge it because we can." fee. I have no idea what the "Non Tax Fee ($1041)" is. I'd challenge that one...unless they could convince me that it's required by state law.

 

[Jeeebus]

I have no idea what the "Non Tax Fee ($1041)" is. I'd challenge that one...unless they could convince me that it's required by state law.

lol a couple yeara ago I was checking out the new Hyundai Genesis and Equus and the local dealer had some 'appearance package' that was $5,000 - $10,000 depending on the model. A salesman told me that was just extra dealer profit but they'd negotiate on that amount. I laughed at him and walked out (did not like the cars anyway, but would never buy from a place like that).

 

[kranky]

I don't care for the technique of negotiating line item by line item. Just when you win a reduction on documentation fee, they figure out a way to put that back in somewhere else. I'd calculate a price I could live with and say that's what I'll pay out the door. I don't care how they write it up on each line item. If they say they can't meet your price, say thanks, let me know if things change and I'll shop around at other places. If your price is doable, they'll call you back in a day or two.

I think you might be reaching too hard with a $40K OTD price. That means they are getting around $36K (subtracting the sales tax) for a $54K car where most people are paying $45.5K. I think you'll have to come up some.

 

[Kaido]

I don't care for the technique of negotiating line item by line item. Just when you win a reduction on documentation fee, they figure out a way to put that back in somewhere else. I'd calculate a price I could live with and say that's what I'll pay out the door. I don't care how they write it up on each line item. If they say they can't meet your price, say thanks, let me know if things change and I'll shop around at other places. If your price is doable, they'll call you back in a day or two.

I think you might be reaching too hard with a $40K OTD price. That means they are getting around $36K (subtracting the sales tax) for a $54K car where most people are paying $45.5K. I think you'll have to come up some.

That's exactly why the OTD price matters so much. They have counterweights everywhere in their system.

 

[cressida]

Did some car shopping for my dad ... but this was posted on here a while back and was helpful. You need quotes from multiple dealers to use as leverage and go from there. It's almost close to the end of the month so I would try this technique. Dealers are also trying to clear inventory for 2018's.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-one-email-you-should-send-when-youre-buying-a-new-car-2016-5

 

[lytalbayre2]

I recently purchased a Toyota Sienna SE. Here's what I did.

Look for a forums where people list actual prices paid. I did a little bit of research like that to get a good target number in mind. Also looked at Truecar to get their number. I also went on Costco Auto and got their number.

So i had a bunch of data and had a good target price in mind.

I would call around to a bunch of dealerships and work with their internet sales departments. Get quotes from all the internet sales departments and use the lowest quote as your starting point in negotiating.

In my instance, there was a dealership about 30 mi away that has a really great internet sales dept. and their quote was extremely competitive and was already pretty much on target for some of the lowest prices people were paying according to real data. Many other dealerships were not even willing to match this internet price even with a promise to buy the car that day.

I had previously visited my local dealership to look at vehicles and got pissed because their salesman was pulling the same BS tactics of making us wait long periods of time to get back to us with prices, etc. So we left angry... a couple days later the local dealership called performing a CS survey, and I told them I was pissed because they wasted so much of my time with BS while I had two little kids in tow....

The next day, the local floor manager called me and apologized and offered to make it right.

I used the really good internet quote and negotiated down from their since the local dealership was now trying to "make it right with me".

Once we were at this stage, it was basically a couple rounds of back and forth. I offered a low price, the dealership so no... I went up a little, and they finally agreed. But I was still about $750 less than the really good internet price and right on target for a really low OTD price for a newly released vehicle.

The best thing you can do is be armed with information. KNow what others are paying, call around and get multiple quotes.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

Find forums to see what people paid in your same state. Fees/taxes vary heavily between different states. Hit up 5+ dealerships within a 30-50 mile radius of you. Have them bid war. If they don't want to, then their loss.

I did this for 5-6 leases I negotiated and got great deals for all of my family and friends. It's a headache and a half though and you'll probably forget who talked to who. I always try to do it via email. Pricing over the phone doesn't mean much without a paper trail. Some places would give you something too good to be true on the phone and when you walk in there jack up the price. If you get numbers via email, you can show them right what was quoted.

 

[raildogg]

I might be interested in a car so I'm kind of shopping around a little here and there. I went to a dealer's site and filled out a form about a car I might be interested in. I asked some questions about the car and also asked them to make me an offer. Now, they are asking for my phone number to talk to me. I'm not quite sure how I should respond.

Right now, I'm looking for a good price on the car and only then will I be more interested. But they seem to want to talk and get the ball rolling quickly it seems. Should I give them the number or keep the communication to emails for now?

(Not to derail OP's thread )

 

[Cr0nJ0b]

When I bought my first and last new car, I did the following:

1. Research the car that I wanted with the features.
2. did some price research...on the forums people would talk about what they paid to get an idea of what ppl are getting as a "Deal".
3. Once I locked on the exact car, I sent email to every dealer inside a 100 mile radius. It was a lot of dealers. I sent the email to the fleet manager with all of the exact specs that I was looking for.
   1. On the email I listed every spec i wanted to the detail
   2. I asked them to only respond if they had the car and wanted to sell to me.
   3. I made sure to tell them I had cash and was planning to buy in the next 2 weeks
4. I combed through the emails and responded to the serious ones but didn't call anyone. I didn't visit anyone.
   1. out of 30 emails, i weeded it down to like 10 that were serious. I asked them for a price with details
5. In the end I got a great deal, walked in, talked to the fleet guy. He tried to tell me that locking bolts and some other do dad was an added charge. I pointed to the email and said...I'm out if you don't honor this for this price. He got approval and I left with the car. very happy.

When I do this again, i'll probably use a throw away email. as I'm still getting emails 7 years later from the dealers.

 

[blackangst1]

As others have said, multiple quotes are best. You can do that the easiest way buying through TrueCar. You can specify how many miles radius youre willing to go, and once you select the car you want it emails every dealer in the area. They KNOW its a Truecar bid so will be very aggressive.

Sit on your couch and buy a car!

 

[shortylickens]

I'm not sure how to specifically help you, but here's what I did:

Found out what the car is selling for in my area (2009 Nissan Murano).
As it happens, that particular model DOES sell for blue book value in Northern Virginia. (its popular).
I told the guy what I was willing to pay, then I walked out. Went back once a week and saw him. Always friendly.
Eventually he dug up what I wanted for the price I wanted and had it shipped to his dealership. I got my car for the price I wanted.
He wasn't very nice about it, which means I screwed him. He did not screw me.
If the guy is nice and smiling and he offers a free tank of gas, it means he got you good.

 

[Svnla]

Another thing. if you can wait until close to the end of the month, go to the dealer. If the sale person is 1 vehicle short to win the sale person of the month award, he/she will willing to do whatever he/she could to win that tittle..ie..lower the price as much as possible to get your business. As I said before, you are the buyer, you have the power to walk away. Use it to maximize your saving.

 

[Fritzo]

My help: never buy new. Always buy 2-3 years used certified. All the depreciation is taken off, and you have a new car warranty.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

When I bought my first and last new car, I did the following

1. 1. I made sure to tell them I had cash and was planning to buy in the next 2 weeks

This is something you should NEVER tell a dealership. Word to the wise.

Come to terms on how much to pay - and don't mention how it will be paid. Plenty of the dealerships WANT you to finance it - as they often make money under the table depending on whom you finance through. So if you tell them that you are paying cash, that is a mark against you because they know they will not be making interest (and thus will factor it in to their offer price)

Furthermore, if you pay with cash (And they know you are paying with cash) they would be more likely to try and sell you a clunker - such as a car with previous water damage, etc... whereas if it's financed, the bank can hold them by the balls if they sell you a defective car.

 

[BoomerD]

The dealership would rather have you finance through them. They get a percentage from the finance company/bank.

 

[fleshconsumed]

I really don't get why buying new car is so difficult. You contact all dealerships in your immediate area, whether by phone, email, or by physically going in. You give them the town you live in (no need to give full address) so that they can calculate all the local taxes and fees as required by your state/county. Now that they have information required to calculate all the taxes and fees you get them to give you final out the door price. And then you just bid them against each other until they cannot go any lower.

Say you're working with dealers A, B, and C. A gives you 23,500, B gives you 23,700, and C gives you 23,400. You take the lowest quote from C, subtract $100 from it, call dealers A and B and tell them you got a new out the door quote of 23,300 and if they can beat it, or if they cannot beat it can they match it at least. Once you get the new low quote, you go back and repeat the process until the dealers start saying they cannot go any lower - that's when you know you got the lowest price possible. Then, what you do is you call all the dealers with the lowest quote and say hey, I really liked working with you, I got this quote and I'm ready to buy it from you today if you throw in a little extra, like an appearance package, or a homelink mirror, or free oil changes or whatever it is that you can think of. Go for that extra mile if you can.

Dealerships are ruthless. If you want to get a good deal from them you got to be ruthless too. Bidding the dealerships against each other is the only way to guarantee you get the lowest price possible. It's easier too since you don't have to sit at any given dealership for multiple hours playing mind games. If you play that game, you're going to lose as dealerships are experts at that game. Don't be that guy.

 

[BoomerD]

So...did the OP ever get his new truck?