Help with building a rig (sticky answers inside)

[faceplant710]

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.

Answer: Music editing (production programs like Reason, Melodyne, VST), video and photo editing editing, gaming. I'd also like it to be fairly quiet if possible.

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread

Answer: $1200-1300.

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.

Answer: United States

4. IF YOU have a brand preference.

Answer: Not really. I've been doing a fair amount of research and if I'm not mistaken Intel's Ivy Bridge (3rd gen, 3XXX) seems to be the best bet.

5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

Answer: I have a monitor, need keyboard + mouse. Prefer a gaming mouse with #1-9 buttons on the side if anyone knows of a good one.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.

Answer: Default speeds- no plans to overclock (mostly because I'm mostly unaware of how to and not keen on running my cpu over it's limit).

8. What resolution will you be using?

Answer: 1280 X 1024 currently but I will most likely upgrade eventually.

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?

Answer: 1-2 weeks, preferably sooner. Ordering parts at the end of week.


More info:

I have built very simple PCs before (8 yrs ago in high school, think cpus from about the early 90s that were donated to the class). I would like to build a rig that can handle some current games at high-ultra settings and hopefully will be able to play games in the near future (future-proofing is a crapshoot I know) on at least medium settings. For instance I know Skyrim can be run pretty easily at max but battlefield 3 is a different story.

I took a look at the mid range guide and I think I am sold on the MSI GTX 670 2gb. It seems to be able to hold its own against a lot of the other options in a similar price range but I'd be willing to go up a few bucks to get a better GPU if it would help a lot.

CPU wise I am debating between the i7 3770k 3.50 and the i5 3570k 3.4... my main concern being do I really need the i7? I would also like to max out my DDR3 ram to 16. As far as RAM goes since I am not overclocking I don't think I need to get something like corsair vengeance/dominator do I?

Edit: After looking around some other threads here I found a Xeon CPU that is much cheaper but still almost as good as the i7 as well as a Gskill ram kit. I think those would suffice yes? I've also read that having 2 HDs for video editing makes the process much faster... so far this site has been incredibly helpful and all I've done is consume thread after thread... hah.

Mobos I have essentially no idea about aside from the Z77 spiel (like SLI). Honestly the deal with the i5 + mobo looks good enough to me assuming the i5 will work for my needs.

I don't care much about any extra media slots as long as I have a few USB ports. I think I can hold off on getting the SSD for now as well... I know the benefits but honestly the amount of space is just way too cramped for being any sort of useful to me.

My only other concerns would be cooling.. would the fan that comes with my processor be enough (esp since I have no intention to overclock)?

Thanks for any help- it's greatly appreciated.

 

[postmortemIA]

hyperthreading does help with video editing. I know cuz I see some apps that I use manage to load 100% all real and virtual (HT) cores. Are these Xeons with 8MB L3 cache but only 4 real and 0 virtual cores?

I'm using stock fan and CPU does get hot under load, but so far I haven't had any problems.

 

[faceplant710]

This is the one I was referencing... so yes. Thanks for the heads up!

I'd also like to add that while video editing is definitely of interest to me I'd prefer to save money and focus on power for gaming over video editing. If the i7 is really that much better (even for both) than I will most definitely spend the money.

Another question as I browse the forum.. I've noticed different RAM kits have different numbers (1333, 1600, 1800, 2100 etc). I believe this is mhz and am wondering how much this affects performance?

 

[postmortemIA]

That Xeon is good deal: it has HT cores. However, it is Sandy Bridge, so it will be bit hotter & slower than Ivy Bridge.
if you are money conscious, i7 is not the best deal. Fastest i5 or decent Xeon is.

 

[faceplant710]

That Xeon is good deal: it has HT cores. However, it is Sandy Bridge, so it will be bit hotter & slower than Ivy Bridge.
if you are money conscious, i7 is not the best deal. Fastest i5 or decent Xeon is.

Hmm... but it says Ivy Bridge in the description? If it isn't I'll probably end up with the top tier i5.

Thanks again!

 

[postmortemIA]

Hmm... but it says Ivy Bridge in the description? If it isn't I'll probably end up with the top tier i5.

Thanks again!

Sorry, you're right, it is ivy bridge. There's another one with same name (sans V2) which is sandy bridge.

 

[mfenn]

That Xeon is good deal: it has HT cores. However, it is Sandy Bridge, so it will be bit hotter & slower than Ivy Bridge.
if you are money conscious, i7 is not the best deal. Fastest i5 or decent Xeon is.

Any E3-12xx V2 chip is Ivy bridge.

OP, since you don't want to overclock, there is definitely no reason to even look an an i7. The Xeon will serve the role of the i7 perfectly, but for less money.

The real question is whether or not the Xeon is worth it over an i5. The thing is, video editing isn't your top priority, and even though HT does give you a big benefit in video editing, it's not like the i5 is a slow CPU in that department.

For $1300, there is no reason to wait on a monitor upgrade. Simply grab the midrange build as-is and add a decent 1080p monitor like this ASUS for $165 AR. That leaves you with $135 for the OS (should you need it).

 

[faceplant710]

Any E3-12xx V2 chip is Ivy bridge.

OP, since you don't want to overclock, there is definitely no reason to even look an an i7. The Xeon will serve the role of the i7 perfectly, but for less money.

The real question is whether or not the Xeon is worth it over an i5. The thing is, video editing isn't your top priority, and even though HT does give you a big benefit in video editing, it's not like the i5 is a slow CPU in that department.

For $1300, there is no reason to wait on a monitor upgrade. Simply grab the midrange build as-is and add a decent 1080p monitor like this ASUS for $165 AR. That leaves you with $135 for the OS (should you need it).

Depends on how much the Xeon would cost taking the i5/mobo bundle into consideration.. something I'll have to think about.

Anyway thanks for the advice but I'm still planning on waiting out the monitor... I want to tweak a few things from the midrange build (probably no SSD at first, 16 gb ram instead of 8, possible Xeon CPU switch)...

I was also looking at prices for some other GPUs... I noticed the Radeon 7970 3gb is currently on sale at newegg for about $10 more than the GTX 670 (after rebate and sale price for both).

I already linked to this comparison chart in another post and it seems to my fairly uneducated eyes that the Radeon is overall slightly better although it suffers from a lower memory clock (though I'm not sure which settings are more important).

Anyone with thoughts on that? It seems worth the $10 at this point if it will perform better.

Still looking for advice how I could reduce the dB output as well.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[DSF]

Depends on how much the Xeon would cost taking the i5/mobo bundle into consideration.. something I'll have to think about.

Anyway thanks for the advice but I'm still planning on waiting out the monitor... I want to tweak a few things from the midrange build (probably no SSD at first, 16 gb ram instead of 8, possible Xeon CPU switch)...

I was also looking at prices for some other GPUs... I noticed the Radeon 7970 3gb is currently on sale at newegg for about $10 more than the GTX 670 (after rebate and sale price for both).

I already linked to this comparison chart in another post and it seems to my fairly uneducated eyes that the Radeon is overall slightly better although it suffers from a lower memory clock (though I'm not sure which settings are more important).

Anyone with thoughts on that? It seems worth the $10 at this point if it will perform better.

Still looking for advice how I could reduce the dB output as well.

Thanks for the help guys.

I don't see the point in adding the SSD in later. To maximize the benefit you're going to want to have the OS and programs on the SSD, meaning that adding it in later would necessitate installing all over again.

Not to mention that if low noise is a priority for you, SSDs are as quiet as it gets in the storage world.

 

[faceplant710]

I don't see the point in adding the SSD in later. To maximize the benefit you're going to want to have the OS and programs on the SSD, meaning that adding it in later would necessitate installing all over again.

Not to mention that if low noise is a priority for you, SSDs are as quiet as it gets in the storage world.

A few hours worth of installing doesn't bother me much. The amount of space is honestly too limited in this price range to be even mildly useful for me. I'll go with a 1tb sata and think about getting an SSD eventually.

If there is a quality SSD available in this range with around 250 gb or higher.. I'd consider it.

Edit: After browsing the best I've found seems to be this but the low price relative to the competition makes me question that choice... though it is a sale price and the same recommended model (aside from size).

 

[mfenn]

I'm really confused. You have a $1300 budget, right? That's more than enough to get everything you want all in one go. Buying it in bits and pieces is just creating extra work for yourself. Is there some other factor that we don't know about?

 

[faceplant710]

I'm really confused. You have a $1300 budget, right? That's more than enough to get everything you want all in one go. Buying it in bits and pieces is just creating extra work for yourself. Is there some other factor that we don't know about?

I just don't want a small SSD (god forbid) because, and I'll say it a third time, it's worthless to me. Between games, the literal tons of audio editing software and VST I have, and the photo/video editing I'd literally have to pick and choose what I want in that small space. It'd be filled to the brim and I'd have to make sacrifices that I'm frankly unwilling to make.

I won't be explaining this point again as frankly I'm sick of talking about it.

I have a monitor already too- if I can spend the extra cash on hardware upgrades I'd rather just do that. I'll get the monitor for Christmas (which is good both ways because I never know what I want anyway) and I'm confused as to why any of me explaining what I want/don't want is such a big deal?

I appreciate the help but I feel I've explained it more than clearly even before this post.... I am not looking for a SSD (unless there is a quality one with at least 250gb..pref more) or monitor at this time and would rather the money go to hardware.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

256 GB SSD
Go with Intel or Cruicial or Samsung

The new samsung ssds look sexy

hell, you could just buy a 512gb ssd

 

[riversend]

Just as a note, the Samsung 830 you linked to for $170 is an outstanding drive. The reason it is on sale is that Samsung is bringing their newer model, the 840 on line, so many places are selling the 830 for a song. To go to T's point, you could buy two of them for $340.

But, if you just want to wait to get a single unit 512GB then that is fine also. Historically, we have not seen price drops on those very much. They seem to stay well north of $500 for the most part.

 

[faceplant710]

Just as a note, the Samsung 830 you linked to for $170 is an outstanding drive. The reason it is on sale is that Samsung is bringing their newer model, the 840 on line, so many places are selling the 830 for a song. To go to T's point, you could buy two of them for $340.

But, if you just want to wait to get a single unit 512GB then that is fine also. Historically, we have not seen price drops on those very much. They seem to stay well north of $500 for the most part.

Good to know- I know the prices of SSDs have literally been insane since they came out. I think I could manage to get a single 250 and just trim some fat (probably from gaming honestly) if there is no better place to spend the money on hardware at this price range.

Anyone with thoughts on the Radeon 3gb vs the GTX 670?

 

[mfenn]

I just don't want a small SSD (god forbid) because, and I'll say it a third time, it's worthless to me. Between games, the literal tons of audio editing software and VST I have, and the photo/video editing I'd literally have to pick and choose what I want in that small space. It'd be filled to the brim and I'd have to make sacrifices that I'm frankly unwilling to make.

I won't be explaining this point again as frankly I'm sick of talking about it.

I have a monitor already too- if I can spend the extra cash on hardware upgrades I'd rather just do that. I'll get the monitor for Christmas (which is good both ways because I never know what I want anyway) and I'm confused as to why any of me explaining what I want/don't want is such a big deal?

I appreciate the help but I feel I've explained it more than clearly even before this post.... I am not looking for a SSD (unless there is a quality one with at least 250gb..pref more) or monitor at this time and would rather the money go to hardware.

I don't understand why you're getting so defensive here. All I did was point out that with $1300, you don't have to compromise on any aspect of the machine. To explicitly restate:

Base Midrange Machine $1003 AR AP (note that this includes a 1TB HDD for storage)
Upgrade to 16 GB of RAM +$25 AP
Upgrade to 256 GB SSD +$60
Add IPS Monitor +$165 AR
Total: $1253 AR AP

 

[faceplant710]

I don't understand why you're getting so defensive here. All I did was point out that with $1300, you don't have to compromise on any aspect of the machine.

Right- well the thing is that while I appreciate your help you have largely ignored my own personal input (even again after explaining it 3 times). The monitor can wait till Christmas- if that means I just pocket the $160... great!

I showed interest in upgrading the GPU for $10 (which would include a case upgrade for more room) and the CPU for $30 but it's been a no-go for you. Even with a 256 SDD I would still have space issues.. when you have 100+ vsts ranging from 85 gb for just ONE in the higher range to about 35 gb in the mid range and anywhere from 6 mb to 5gb for the low range... space gets tight quick. Then you throw on top of that how much space a lot of games (and inevitable mods) take up... things start to get hairy.

In short- I was acting defensive because you are voracious. The help is still greatly appreciated but it feels more like your machine than mine.. if you can imagine.

 

[mfenn]

Right- well the thing is that while I appreciate your help you have largely ignored my own personal input (even again after explaining it 3 times). The monitor can wait till Christmas- if that means I just pocket the $160... great!

Even with a 256 SDD I would still have space issues.. when you have 100+ vsts ranging from 85 gb for just ONE in the higher range to about 35 gb in the mid range and anywhere from 6 mb to 5gb for the low range... space gets tight quick. Then you throw on top of that how much space a lot of games (and inevitable mods) take up... things start to get hairy.

Please give us your true requirements then. For the record, you have stated (emhpasis mine),

"2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spreadAnswer: $1200-1300."

"I am not looking for a SSD (unless there is a quality one with at least 250gb..pref more)"

Can you understand how this mixed messaging makes it really hard to give advice?

It sounds like your true budget is more like ~$1100 (~1250-160) and your true storage requirement for an SSD (if one were to be bought) is 512GB. Please confirm or point out where I have gone wrong.

I showed interest in upgrading the GPU for $10 (which would include a case upgrade for more room) and the CPU for $30 but it's been a no-go for you.

The 7970 is definitely a "no-go" since you're "Still looking for advice how I could reduce the dB output as well.". The Xeon is fine (as I stated in my first reply) and is still within the $1300 budget (assuming that is even the budget).

 

[faceplant710]

Can you understand how this mixed messaging makes it really hard to give advice?

It sounds like your true budget is more like ~$1100 (~1250-160) and your true storage requirement for an SSD (if one were to be bought) is 512GB. Please confirm or point out where I have gone wrong.

The 7970 is definitely a "no-go" since you're "Still looking for advice how I could reduce the dB output as well.". The Xeon is fine (as I stated in my first reply) and is still within the $1300 budget (assuming that is even the budget).

This wasn't meant to be insulting in any way mate- I did say that even though I could probably live with a 256 it still wouldn't be comfortable.. right? Right.

Also- I've said before that if I can throw more money at hardware upgrades I'd prefer to do that. So $10 + case costs for a 7970 and the possibility of it being louder might be worth my money.. you know? Especially if there is a way to reduce the noise.. I've seen insulating foam around but I assume it restricts airflow (though my cpu shouldn't have temp issues anyway) but honestly I don't know.. that's why I am here

Just because I don't want a monitor (or potentially a SSD) doesn't mean I don't want to spend $1300 on the PC... there is no sane reason I can't wait a month and a half for a monitor as a Christmas present.

 

[DSF]

To shift the conversation slightly, building a truly quiet computer is often less about sound dampening material and more about choosing quiet components in the first place. If you have a loud graphics card or case fan you won't be able to completely block it out just by adding foam. Of course, if you can buy a case built with silence in mind that doesn't hurt, but a run-of-the-mill case with quiet fans is probably going to sound better than a "silent" case with loud fans.

It all depends on how tolerant you are of noise.

Now back to where you were, I think the reason mfenn is suggesting things like an SSD and monitor is because you're at the point where you're going to see diminishing returns on most components if you try to use the $1300 to step up from here. If you want to put the extra $150-200 toward CPU/GPU type stuff rather than storage you're probably going to get the most mileage out of your money by pocketing it and doing a partial upgrade in a year or two.

Of course, if you really want to spend it all now you can do that, your dollars just won't get you quite as much machine in the long run.

 

[faceplant710]

To shift the conversation slightly, building a truly quiet computer is often less about sound dampening material and more about choosing quiet components in the first place. If you have a loud graphics card or case fan you won't be able to completely block it out just by adding foam. Of course, if you can buy a case built with silence in mind that doesn't hurt, but a run-of-the-mill case with quiet fans is probably going to sound better than a "silent" case with loud fans.

It all depends on how tolerant you are of noise.

Now back to where you were, I think the reason mfenn is suggesting things like an SSD and monitor is because you're at the point where you're going to see diminishing returns on most components if you try to use the $1300 to step up from here. If you want to put the extra $150-200 toward CPU/GPU type stuff rather than storage you're probably going to get the most mileage out of your money by pocketing it and doing a partial upgrade in a year or two.

Of course, if you really want to spend it all now you can do that, your dollars just won't get you quite as much machine in the long run.

Well, that last part makes a lot of sense when explained. Case costs aside I think the combined extra $40 for CPU and GPU tweaks might be worth it for me.

I can't honestly say how tolerant of noise I am because it's been over 6 years since I've done any PC gaming... all I have is a crappy dell inspirion laptop with integrated graphics atm. I did the console gaming for college and now that I'm out and with an "adult" job I felt like I wanted to get back in.

When doing audio work I'd like to keep the noise down since I have both open cup and closed cup headphones... when I am on my monitors though it wouldn't really matter much. I'd love any suggestions on good cases for that kind of thing (especially since I apparently have a decent chunk of leftover budget).

I've been referred to these cases but they seem a bit overkill to me (esp the HAF)..

Rosewill BLACKHAWK Gaming ATX Mid Tower
COOLER MASTER HAF 932 Advanced Blue Edition

The Rosewill seems like a decent case (though it has a lot more fans than I imagine needing) and would allow room for the 7970.

 

[VirtualLarry]

The Rosewill Blackhawk is a fine case, I have two of them, but they suffer from a design defect, in which the mic/headphone jacks will not fit properly, they will pop out just enough to not make good contact and allow you to hear stereo sound.

Otherwise, the case is superb.

There is also a Blackhawk Ultra, which is a bit bigger. (more fans, more expansion cards, more drive bays, and just more room in general.)

 

[faceplant710]

The Rosewill Blackhawk is a fine case, I have two of them, but they suffer from a design defect, in which the mic/headphone jacks will not fit properly, they will pop out just enough to not make good contact and allow you to hear stereo sound.

Otherwise, the case is superb.

There is also a Blackhawk Ultra, which is a bit bigger. (more fans, more expansion cards, more drive bays, and just more room in general.)

Bah! That is really quite a horrible defect... I could use my external sound card I suppose but that leaves out the mic jack (which is important for a good deal of games).

Thanks for the heads up mate- I think I'll have to go back to case hunting. So far that has been my biggest headache

 

[riversend]

Have you looked at this case (Fractal Design Define R4)? It has popped up on the boards here a few times, seems to be a nice case and quiet, but I do not have any personal experience with it.

Personnally, I paid extra for my case some years ago (Antec P182) and have my second build inside of it now. Very happy I got what I wanted at the time, looks good, functional, and while not the perfect case to work in, it does the job. Take your time on the case, and if you are going to spend a bit more I think this is a place to do it.

 

[mfenn]

Now back to where you were, I think the reason mfenn is suggesting things like an SSD and monitor is because you're at the point where you're going to see diminishing returns on most components if you try to use the $1300 to step up from here. If you want to put the extra $150-200 toward CPU/GPU type stuff rather than storage you're probably going to get the most mileage out of your money by pocketing it and doing a partial upgrade in a year or two.

:thumbsup: Well put, exactly what I was getting at.

Regarding cases: A HAF 932 or Rosewill Blackhawk are definitely not the types of cases you want to use for low noise purposes, as both are open "meshy" designs that may was well be acoustically transparent.

If lowering noise is your goal, cases like the Bitfenix Outlaw, Fractal Design R4, and Corsair 550D are where you should be looking. Obviously more money gets you a nicer case, but I don't think that the 550D is twice as good as the Outlaw.