Help with budget gaming computer(P4 Motherboard)

[gariig]

I'm giving my Tbird 900 to my girlfriend and we are building me a new computer together. I'm looking for something that will be semi-quiet(my current one sounds like a jet engine), a good gaming machine (I don't need to extend my manhood, just get descent FPS), and inexpensive (around $600). The only things I will need is a case, motherboard, CPU, RAM, and a video card. I'm paratial to Nvidia(thinking about a Ti4600) but if someone can convince me of a ATi I just might. I really appreciate in tidbits of insight someone can give me.

Thanks in advance,

Gariig

 

[ai42]

Well Radeon 8500s run about at the same range as a GF3 Ti500, and cost in the sub-$100 range now. Otherwise you could get a GF4 ti4200 and OC the thing. Honestly though I will never go back to Nvidia the visual quality of the ATI chips are so much better.

RAM - DDR is a must have I suggest PC2700, and has a future unlike RDRAM (as PC3200 is expensive and not a real standard yet so you don't want sub-standard ram)
CPU - Contrary to the AMD lovefest which has been going on for years (great cpus don't get me wrong I own one, but just it has its drawbacks) I suggest a P4 Northwood say 1.8A and you should be able to pump that up to 533fsb easily and OC to 2.4.
Mobo - Intel 845E chipset any manufacuter, not a super overclocker but decent

So in summary (using newegg prices)
106 Radeon 8500 128mb
85 shuttle 845e mobo
74 pny 256mb pc2700
148 P4 1.8a retail
50 case (from wherever I suggest local so you dont have to pay shipping)
463 + some shipping/taxes (if applies)

 

[gariig]

Originally posted by: ai42
Well Radeon 8500s run about at the same range as a GF3 Ti500

Will I get the same performance out of an Radeon 8500 has a GF3 Ti500 or GF4 Ti4600? Just want to make sure when I get Doom 3 I can play it.

533fsb easily and OC to 2.4.

What about heat issues, will the stock heatsink/fan work for that?

Thank you ai42 for the help, I might think about a P4, I was kind of leaning towards an AMD, but I didn't realize they are so cheap.

Gariig

 

[ai42]

Will I get the same performance out of an Radeon 8500 has a GF3 Ti500 or GF4 Ti4600? Just want to make sure when I get Doom 3 I can play it

Well the Radeon 8500 is certainly not a top performer anymore. You will get about similar fps as a GF3 Ti500. Doom 3 is kind of tricky, programmers say it is designed to work for the GF3/Radeon 8500 range cards, but the demos they have shown are only on super top performing cards IE Radoen 9700s. But perhaps they have some bug testing stuff in there that slows it down, we'll see. But it is supposed to work for GF3/Radeon 8500s. And FPS on those cards is in question as well.

What about heat issues, will the stock heatsink/fan work for that?

Northwoods put off fractional heat as AthlonXPs. The previous version the 1.6A (which is discontinued) was wild in the overclocking community, because they would often overclock to in excess of 3Ghz with the same retail heatsync (but with some voltage mod).

As far as a P4 being cheap heh... well prices are comming down but Athlons are cheaper its all relative b/c if you can easily OC to 2.4 then its worth the money in my opinion.

 

[gariig]

When I said "budget" I meant I'm not going to buy a P4 2.53(or 2.5 forgot the higest) and 1.5 GB of RAM, etc. I'd spend the extra $50 for the P4 which I think I will. The motherboard I'm going to snag a barebones one since I have a NIC/sound card/etc. Now, all I'm really debating on is a case which I'm either going to get from electroseller.com or an Enermax case from newegg.com. I'm kind of leaning towards the Enermax case, unless someone knows a problem with the PSU. Also, is 300 watts enough anymore or is that still up for debating?

So far I'm looking at $365 shipped for the case/ram/cpu/mobo...I might snag an ATi 9700 pro, err well, That will kind of put me over or maybe I will wait until they get to the $250 range then I would be all over one I think. However, I can't wait for the NV30 to come out, I need one fairly soon so I can give mine away.

I was looking through newegg.com for CPUs..is it work the extra $20 to get a 2.0a ghz?

Once again ai42 I appreciate all the help you are giving me.

Gariig

Editted because I forgot the motherboard. So far I picked basically everything you said ai42, you are damned good at this.

 

[ai42]

Enermax makes very fine cases, dunno which one your looking at (and I'm not really going to look it up) but I think it is the steel one with rails and blue buttons and such. I think its on the small side, but thats just me I like very large cases for cooling and such. PSU is top rate, and 300w should be sufficent, contrary to everyone wanting 400w+ psus I'n most case it is purely excessive. If you were to actually add up all your wattage I think that even most gamming systems run in the 250's wattage range. Of course you need more than your using but still. In most cases PSU problems is an undervolt issue not wattage, and Enermax makes top notch PSUs so you should be good.

Also another suggestion I think you should run say just a 256 stick for now, I know most power users run 1/2 gig now, but DDR prices are on the rise and if you wait till spring you can save some cash. You know most memory manufcatuers are in debt (or recently out of debt) with the whole memory price fall a while back. So to make some extra cash they are reducing production artificially increasing prices. After the Christmas season they will drop again.

To the whole video card scene. Well as we all know Radeon 9700 is king and looks like Nvidia won't have any real competition at least this year. With NV28 comming out very soon (BTW NV28 is basically a GF4 Ti4600 + type thing based on the same basic core just faster), a Ti4600 may not be too unreasonable to purchase once that happens (as prices are surely to drop even further). NV30 will be something to watch out for but I don't think it will fit your timeframe. And if your looking for rather upper performance ATI has a huge hole, Radeon 8500 and then the Radeon 9700 no middleground in there (which might change but I doubt this year).

As to the 2.0A cpu your choice gives you more clock. BTW my terms of OC is rather basic I know lots of ppl will push fsb to 150s range and what not, but I am just suggesting 100 to 133 because it is easy and wont stress out your components so much.
18 x 133 = 2400
20 x 133 = 2660
Personal choice is 266mhz worth $20? (funny I never though I would ever say that considering it was a huge thing when the classic pentium series you could pay $100 more for +33mhz and it was a huge deal )

 

[pitupepito2000]

Hi,

I would suggest you to go with an Athlon XP, right now they are in the all time low. You can't go wrong with that price for an Athlon. I would suggest you 256MB of ram cas 2.0 PC2700. The cas in the ram is one of the most important things. For example a stick of ram cas 2.0 PC2100 can perform better than a stick of ram cas 2.5 PC2700. If you play a lot of games I would recommend you the ATI Radeon 8500LE is the best bang for the buck. DON'T GO AT ALL FOR THE RADEON 9000, it actually performs lower than the radeon 8500. The case I would recommend you the antec performance plus series. The motherboard for this cpu, I would say the best bet is MSI KT3 Ultra-ARU. That is a great motherboard with great features for the price.

I hope this helps!

 

[ai42]

The cas in the ram is one of the most important things. For example a stick of ram cas 2.0 PC2100 can perform better than a stick of ram cas 2.5 PC2700

Hey fanboy read your tech before you make assumptions. Required reading on cas latency Since PC2100 and PC2700 has a 25% clock increase theoretically you have 25% increase in speed (in testing closer to 20%, but varies by chipset), and better cas ratting is going to give you an extra few percentage points only, but nowhere near your claim.

Unless you intend to push your FSB to maximmum potential, and the type of overclock im reffering to isn't super stressful on components then you can go with cheaper RAM. I would stick to well known brands because of compatability issues.

BTW to the Radeon 9000 comment well no I don't suggest it because it benchmarks below Radeon 8500s, but not by a huge number, and in fact will beat out some GF3 Ti200s and I personally think it is an incredible deal for the prices they go for.

 

[gariig]

I think I'm sold on a P4(I've wanted to build one and when I build my first computer the P4 wasn't out of reach). Now, I'm just thinking about the case/psu and video card. I will look into 8500 vs. 8500 LE and a GF4(4200 or 4600). Also, I'm going to search for the Antec, I have that case right now and really like it.

Thank you all for the help and information.

Gariig

 

[gariig]

Bumping to see if someone wants to input their opinions. As I said, I want the P4A but I need a motherboard. I also went for a Ti4200, but I might return it to Best Buy for something else in a week...I appreciate any help.

Gariig

 

[FishTankX]

You're busted

As you see in this graph, CAS latency can make a *HUGE* difference in performance. So much, as to warrant lower latency over higher memory clock speed. I don't mean to be offensive, but...

"Hey fanboy read your tech before you make assumptions. Required reading on cas latency above. Since CAS2.0 and CAS3.0 have a 50% latency difference but DDR2100 and DDR2700 only have a 33% difference. CAS2.0 has a 50% edge over CAS3.0, and DDR2700 is going to give you a few percentage points over DDR2100 (On the athlon side) but no where what you claim."

 

[gariig]

So get good memory? Check. Is 2700 is fine? but I still need a motherboard to buy.

Gariig