Help with a Conroe E6600 build

[sygyzy]

Motherboard Choice 1- ASUS P5B Deluxe
Motherboard Choice 2- Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
Processor Choice 1- <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819115003">Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
Conroe</a>
Processor Choice 2- Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 Conroe
Memory - Corsair XMS2 2GB TWIN2X2048-6400
Hard Drive Choice 1- Western Digital Raptor WD1500 SATA
Hard Drive Choice 2- Seagate 320GB Perpendicular SATA
Heatsink Fan Choice 1 - Zalman CNPS9500
Heatsink Fan Choice 2 - Scythe Infinity SCINF-1000
Power Supply - SeaSonic S12-500
Video - eVGA 7900GT (Which one? Confused about different versions of 7900GT? What about ATI?)
DVD-R - ND-3550A NEC
Case - Need recomendation. Mid-Tower.

I would apperciate some help with my Conroe build. I will be doing basic overclocking and will be playing games and using standard office applications. I'd like a quiet system if possible but am not very hardcore in that regards. Here are some important things to note:

• I plan on having at least 3 hard drives. The primar will be a SATA Raptor. However, I have plenty of perfectly usable PATA drives. The motherboard I chose only has 1 PATA slot (which would be taken up by the DVD-R and DVD-ROM). I'll need to use a RAID PCI card to add more PCI. That means I need at least one basic PCI slot, plus ...

• I am using a EMU-1212M that I don't want to give up. It requires 2 PCI slots. So that's 3 total

• I do not plan on running two video cards so this board might be overkill. However, ever review I've read about this says it's the best Conroe board. Is there a similar board you'd recommend that is just as good but not SLI? In other words, I don't want to pay extra for SLI but I don't want to lose too many additional features (if any) this board offers.

• i ran the system through the eXtreme PSU Calculator and it came up with 442W with a 3.55Ghz o/c (I just pulled a random value from the forums). That's why I chose the 500W PSU. If you have a different suggestion, feel free.

.

• Need help choosing a GPU. I want something around the performance of a 7900GT or equivalent. I don't know much about the variants like the GTX or GT KO

Thanks for all your help.

Edit 1: Added 320GB Seagate Perpendicular as an alternative to the Raptor 150GB.
Edit 2: Added Gigabyte DS3 and Conroe E6400 as choices.

 

[Bobthelost]

CPU: I'd go for a 6400, they overclock pretty well which the 6600 don't seem to at the moment. Much cheaper, either will be more CPU power than you need etc.

Motherboard:Check out the gigabyte P965 DS3, it's got an excellent reputation for overclocking performance and it's much cheaper.

RAM: Nice, good place to save some money though.

Graphics card: The 7900GT design is good, the different lettering like 7900GT KO refer to how fast it's been overclocked from the factory, and sometimes what heatsink is fitted. The 7900GTX is a different design, and a much more powerful one. What sort of resolution are you looking at using. The ATI options are X1900XT (Between a 7900GT and a 7900GTX) and X1900XTX (slightly faster than a GTX). There is a X1900GTO, but it's pretty crap value for money. The X1900 line are powerful and good value, but loud. However the 7900GTX is very quiet.

A 7900GT is plenty for 19" or so, but to get every bit of eyecandy you'd be wanting a 7900GTX.

Case: Lian li are the prettiest. But we'd need more information about what style you like.

 

[sygyzy]

Originally posted by: Bobthelost
CPU: I'd go for a 6400, they overclock pretty well which the 6600 don't seem to at the moment. Much cheaper, either will be more CPU power than you need etc.

I thought that the E6600 was like i chip to get right now. Is the E6400 the same family, but just slower?

Motherboard:Check out the gigabyte P965 DS3, it's got an excellent reputation for overclocking performance and it's much cheaper.

What am I losing getting this over the ASUS? I am a big ASUS fan so what about the idea of getting the NON-SLI equivalent to the P5B?

RAM: Nice, good place to save some money though.

Do you have any other specific recomendations? What are the min. requirements I should be looking for?

Graphics card: The 7900GT design is good, the different lettering like 7900GT KO refer to how fast it's been overclocked from the factory, and sometimes what heatsink is fitted. The 7900GTX is a different design, and a much more powerful one. What sort of resolution are you looking at using. The ATI options are X1900XT (Between a 7900GT and a 7900GTX) and X1900XTX (slightly faster than a GTX). There is a X1900GTO, but it's pretty crap value for money. The X1900 line are powerful and good value, but loud. However the 7900GTX is very quiet.

A 7900GT is plenty for 19" or so, but to get every bit of eyecandy you'd be wanting a 7900GTX.

I plan on purchasing either a 19 or 20" LCD so native will be 1600x1200. I am a fan of running stuff native but I realize games like Oblivion will choke at resolutions that high. I do not want to spend $400 for a card if I can help it. 7900GTX is too much money. What do you recommend? 7900GT (and which variant) or the X1900XT?

Case - Let's go Lian-Li. Any specific recommendtions? Want to make sure there are no funky wiring incompatibilities with my ram, HSF, and PSU. I currently have the PC-65. I am getting tired of it since I've had it so long.

P.S. All the old stuff in my current PC will move to my dad to replace his P3 1 Ghz. Either I can buy him a new case to house the stuff (if I keep my PC-65) or give him the PC-65 and get a new Lian-Li.

Thanks.

Case: Lian li are the prettiest. But we'd need more information about what style you like.

 

[Bobthelost]

The 6400 is a slower version of the 6600 with 2MB of cache rather than 4mb (About a 5% performance boost from the cache in addition to the speed), but with a few exceptions the 6600 doesn't overclock at all well, while the 6400 does. Either is way more than you need for gaming at stock settings, let alone overclocked. Check out the CPU forum, there's a thread on 6600 vs 6400 at the moment.

The only bad thing i've heard about the Gigabyte is that it's fussy about RAM, but i don't know which brands it's fussy about. I don't think there is a decent Asus non sli/crossfire overclocking board around at the moment for C2D.

RAM: Aim for 667 or 800, cheap is still cheerful.

Graphics card: You can run oblivion with a 7900GT on medium to high settings at 1280x1040 (19" native) but you'd either have to drop the res or drop the eyecandy at 1600X1200 (20"). The X1900XT is more powerful than a 7900GT, but the GT is easier to overclock (and if you go eVGA they will honour the warranty even if you volt mod the card [as long as you clean it up before you return it and don't do anything deeply stupid]) as well as drawing less power. Neither of them (7900GT and X1900XT) come with particulary good heatsinks, i'd serriously consider going for a 3rd party one, a vf700 would be enough for a 7900GT, but you'd need an Arctic cooling silencer or VF900 for a X1900XT.

Any Lian li is a good case, i forget the name (V1000B?) but i'm a fan of the dual chamber design, one chamber for the PSU and HDs, one for the optical drives and motherboard.

 

[sygyzy]

What are some other cases that have dual chambers? Have you heard anything about PSU fit problems? I will definitely get an aftermarket cooler.

What do you think of my PSU choice? Feel free to tell me if any of this is overkill. I am considering the DS3/E6400 combination that you recommended. Would save me about $200!

If we go the eVGA 7900 route, which should I get? Lots to choose from

 

[Bobthelost]

It's a nice PSU. A conservative choice if you're going for a C2D and a 7900GT, you could go for a 430W PSU if you wanted. Then again a bit of comfort blanket is nice to have.

Personally if you're going for a 3rd party cooler and overclocking i'd just get the cheapest one they do. I've heard the heatsink on the higher end models is quite decent, but i doubt it's going to be in the realm of the VF900.

 

[deadseasquirrel]

Originally posted by: sygyzy
I plan on purchasing either a 19 or 20" LCD so native will be 1600x1200. I am a fan of running stuff native but I realize games like Oblivion will choke at resolutions that high. I do not want to spend $400 for a card if I can help it. 7900GTX is too much money. What do you recommend? 7900GT (and which variant) or the X1900XT?

If you're going with the 20" LCD for a native 1600x1200 (some are 16x10), then you'll definitely benefit from going with the x1900xt or the GTX. In order to afford one of those cards (I prefer the XT), do like bobthelost said and scale down the CPU and RAM. Neither one of those components is going to help your gaming framerates anywhere near the level a faster GPU would (especially at that resolution).

As for Oblivion at 1600x1200... I'm using a 3000+ A64 with an XTX (not overclocked) and play at 1600x1200 with 4xAA, 16xHQAF, HDR (Chuck patch FTW!), as well as all kinds of mods and texture packs. While the frames can drop during crazy battles, the game is VERY playable. With your C2D and an XT, your frames should be pretty much identical.

The XT is a better value than the GTX, and depending on which deal you jump on (some MIRs are out there), the XT should only cost around $50 more than the 7900GT. So, the money you save going from a 6600 to a 6400 will definitely pay for it. It is, as bobthelost said, louder than the GT, but the GT isn't exactly what I would call quiet anyway.

 

[bamacre]

Dump the Raptor. Worst "bang for buck" piece of hardware on the market.

 

[Raduque]

7900GTs are currently $262 at the lowest. 7900GS is out, and at only $212. I can't attest to the XFX on newegg, but I bought the MSI one from woot.com last week, and overclocks like a celeron 300A I'm running at 600/1700, which makes i think makes it as fast as a GT.

 

[1N0V471V]

Rather than going for one Raptor, get two of these for RAID0.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148140

You can go with a lesser size drive with of the 7200.10 series, but this was as close as I could get to the price of the Raptor.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: 1N0V471V
Rather than going for one Raptor, get two of these for RAID0.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148140

You can go with a lesser size drive with of the 7200.10 series, but this was as close as I could get to the price of the Raptor.

RAID 0 is a waste, and an increased danger, to a desktop. RAID 1 however is not a bad idea.

 

[1N0V471V]

Perhaps, but I work with somebody who has installed over 600 drives in 4 years... all Seagates... and has never had to replace a single one

And the performance of my RAID setup beats most setups (except ones that have dedicated RAID cards)

All I'm saying is that for $230 USD you can get a lot more speed/ storage then a Raptor would offer

 

[Bobthelost]

Originally posted by: 1N0V471V
Perhaps, but I work with somebody who has installed over 600 drives in 4 years... all Seagates... and has never had to replace a single one

And the performance of my RAID setup beats most setups (except ones that have dedicated RAID cards)

All I'm saying is that for $230 USD you can get a lot more speed/ storage then a Raptor would offer

Bollocks, or just a very very unlikley claim.

RAID0 helps boot times, large file transfer/handling and that's about it. Some reviews find RAID0 decreasing BF2 load times, some don't. Remember, you do not play HDtack.

For gamers, with the exception of BF2 you're better off with a 7200rpm drive and the money spent on graphics. For media encoding then seperate 7200 drives to read and write to are better (with a 3rd for OS). For allround epenis you get a raptor. (waves raptor around).

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Raduque
7900GTs are currently $262 at the lowest. 7900GS is out, and at only $212. I can't attest to the XFX on newegg, but I bought the MSI one from woot.com last week, and overclocks like a celeron 300A I'm running at 600/1700, which makes i think makes it as fast as a GT.

You can get a 7900GT for ~235 after rebate. It's actually a better card. $20 price difference is not enough to justify going for a GS. (IMHO)

And the woot deal... meh, MSI. IIRC the warranty sucked too.

 

[sygyzy]

Originally posted by: Bobthelost
It's a nice PSU. A conservative choice if you're going for a C2D and a 7900GT, you could go for a 430W PSU if you wanted. Then again a bit of comfort blanket is nice to have.

Bob - The S12 500W is conservative? What would you recommend instead? Or are you saying that I cuold go 430 if I wanted to be conservative?

Personally if you're going for a 3rd party cooler and overclocking i'd just get the cheapest one they do. I've heard the heatsink on the higher end models is quite decent, but i doubt it's going to be in the realm of the VF900.

Cheapest what, who does?

Originally posted by: deadseasquirrel
If you're going with the 20" LCD for a native 1600x1200 (some are 16x10), then you'll definitely benefit from going with the x1900xt or the GTX. In order to afford one of those cards (I prefer the XT), do like bobthelost said and scale down the CPU and RAM. Neither one of those components is going to help your gaming framerates anywhere near the level a faster GPU would (especially at that resolution).

As for Oblivion at 1600x1200... I'm using a 3000+ A64 with an XTX (not overclocked) and play at 1600x1200 with 4xAA, 16xHQAF, HDR (Chuck patch FTW!), as well as all kinds of mods and texture packs. While the frames can drop during crazy battles, the game is VERY playable. With your C2D and an XT, your frames should be pretty much identical.

The XT is a better value than the GTX, and depending on which deal you jump on (some MIRs are out there), the XT should only cost around $50 more than the 7900GT. So, the money you save going from a 6600 to a 6400 will definitely pay for it. It is, as bobthelost said, louder than the GT, but the GT isn't exactly what I would call quiet anyway.

I can scale down the CPU (640 instead of 6600) but how would you recommend scaling down the RAM? Keep the M/B or get the Gigabyte DS3? I pretty much made my mind on the Viewsonic VX2025WM 20.1" widescreen monitor. Seems to be at my pricepoint unlike the $500 Samsung. With that said, I guess I need to improve my graphics card, like you said. Ok, let's go one step up from the 7900GT. Now to figure which one.

Raduque - I agree with the others. I am not going to go a step down from the GT, if anything I'll go up.

1N0V471V and bamacre - What do you guys not like about the Raptor? I was planning on just using the Raptor as my O/S drive then use the other drives (mix between PATA and SATA, though I prefer the former since I have so many) for storage. Is the performance of the perpendicular drives close to the Raptor or at least better than the standard drives?

Here's the thing. I am not a big fan of having a large primary HD but with the prices of drives now, it doesn't make sense not to. So I am between a rock and a hard place. I have used a 80GB drive for my primary for years. In some ways, having little space on it forced me to move my important media to other larger drives. I even have a Program Files now on F: because I ran out of space on C:. The drive is on the verge of dying (I suspect) and I am not that concerned because backups of a 80GB are easy. I have (at least( 80GB free on (at least) 3 drives.

Recommendations on Lian-Li (or any) cases $100-200 preferbly. I checked out the V1000 that Bobthelost mentioned but there are so many variations!

Thanks.

 

[bamacre]

The difference in speed of a Raptor and a "normal" 7200rpm SATA drive is exaggerated. It's barely noticeable, and insignifacant. You are MUCH MUCH better off putting the extra money in a faster cpu or gpu.

As for RAID0, as many review sites have pointed out, the performance difference is just not there for home users, even gamers. And it doubles the chance of you losing data due to hard drive failure.

Just get a single 7200rpm drive of whatever capacity you need. Seagate is good, and I also like WD.

 

[Howard]

Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 - $226
Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 - $140
Enhance ENP-5140GH - $56
Shipping from ewiz.com - $12-15 UPS Ground

G.SKILL 2x1GB DDR2-667 5-5-5-15 1.8V - $157
Sapphire Radeon X1900XT 512MB - $316
NEC ND-3550A - $29
Shipping from newegg.com - $8-10 UPS 3 Day

Thermalright Ultra-120 - $43
Yate Loon D12SL-12 - $4, x 2 (needs a little modding to fit on the U-120)
Arctic Cooling Accelero X2 - $22 (you can spring for the VF900 if you like - it cools the VRM sinks better)
Shipping from jab-tech - $8-10 UPS Ground

You'll note there's no case or HD above. You can fill up an 80GB with the OS and programs?

 

[acegazda]

How much of a difference is there between the ds3 and s3 from gigabyte? You save $28 by going with the s3.

EDIT: Howard, aren't you an advocate of the freezer 7 pro? Best value ATM i think...
Raptors aren't a very good value... scratch that, a bad value. Only in ultra high end rigs. I think the lian li you want is either the v1000b plus or the pc101. Both ~$180. Top notch quality, cooling and looks.

 

[Howard]

Off the top of my head, the S3 doesn't use aluminum polymer caps.

 

[acegazda]

Does that mean decreased cap life?

 

[Howard]

Supposedly so. I haven't checked the datasheets.

I like the F7P, but it's neither the quietest nor the coolest HSF. I figure if you're going to overclock, you may as well spend the $20 and make sure it's not your HSF holding you back. Or something like that. Besides, the Ultra-120 is a nice compromise between the Infinity and the F7P.

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Raduque
7900GTs are currently $262 at the lowest. 7900GS is out, and at only $212. I can't attest to the XFX on newegg, but I bought the MSI one from woot.com last week, and overclocks like a celeron 300A I'm running at 600/1700, which makes i think makes it as fast as a GT.

You can get a 7900GT for ~235 after rebate. It's actually a better card. $20 price difference is not enough to justify going for a GS. (IMHO)

And the woot deal... meh, MSI. IIRC the warranty sucked too.

Rebates, unless they're instant, are NOT a factor when I do price comparos. As I had said, the GS overclocks like a banshee, which'll put it faster then a GT. Also, when more GS' hit market, the price is going to go down.

Anyway, it's a moot point, the OP isn't going to get anything lower then a GTX.

 

[1N0V471V]

A single 7200RPM Perpendicular 16MB cache drive will be comparable to a 10,000RPM Raptor. IIRC the burst speeds of the Raptor can be faster, but nothing noticeable. If you're going to spend that much on a drive, you might as well go with a RAID0 or RAID1 setup IMO. If not a single 7200.10 will suffice. I can definately tell the diifference between a single and dual (or quad) drive configuration. As long as you have a good backup system in place there is absolutely no worries of loosing data. An no, I don't NEED 1TB of space (by any means) but the drives are soooo cheap... so why not!?

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: 1N0V471V
A single 7200RPM Perpendicular 16MB cache drive will be comparable to a 10,000RPM Raptor.

Where are you getting your figures?

 

[nycdude]

Originally posted by: Howard
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 - $226
Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 - $140
Enhance ENP-5140GH - $56
Shipping from ewiz.com - $12-15 UPS Ground

G.SKILL 2x1GB DDR2-667 5-5-5-15 1.8V - $157
Sapphire Radeon X1900XT 512MB - $316
NEC ND-3550A - $29
Shipping from newegg.com - $8-10 UPS 3 Day

Thermalright Ultra-120 - $43
Yate Loon D12SL-12 - $4, x 2 (needs a little modding to fit on the U-120)
Arctic Cooling Accelero X2 - $22 (you can spring for the VF900 if you like - it cools the VRM sinks better)
Shipping from jab-tech - $8-10 UPS Ground

You'll note there's no case or HD above. You can fill up an 80GB with the OS and programs?

If I were to build a C2D, this is the setup I would go for. Nice.