Help with a Conroe E6600 build

[sygyzy]

Originally posted by: Howard
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 - $226
Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 - $140
Enhance ENP-5140GH - $56
Shipping from ewiz.com - $12-15 UPS Ground

G.SKILL 2x1GB DDR2-667 5-5-5-15 1.8V - $157
Sapphire Radeon X1900XT 512MB - $316
NEC ND-3550A - $29
Shipping from newegg.com - $8-10 UPS 3 Day

Thermalright Ultra-120 - $43
Yate Loon D12SL-12 - $4, x 2 (needs a little modding to fit on the U-120)
Arctic Cooling Accelero X2 - $22 (you can spring for the VF900 if you like - it cools the VRM sinks better)
Shipping from jab-tech - $8-10 UPS Ground

You'll note there's no case or HD above. You can fill up an 80GB with the OS and programs?

Howard, thanks for your specific suggestions. Some questions:

1. Why the Enhance PS? Is is sufficient?

2. Why 667 instead of 800 ram? If I overclocked, would the 667 be ok?

I am not sure what you meant by the 80GB HD? Are you saying I can't fill it up? Or that it's too small? Also, why ordering from eWiz plus NewEgg? Why not just one place?

 

[Howard]

1. Yes
2. Yes, and it runs at a nominal voltage of 1.8V which means that if the sticks aren't DOA, they should work fine in any mobo.
3. You said you had Program Files on F: because you ran out of space on the primary. The primary was 80GB. Correct?
6-7. Because it's cheaper to order it that way.

 

[acegazda]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: 1N0V471V
A single 7200RPM Perpendicular 16MB cache drive will be comparable to a 10,000RPM Raptor.

Where are you getting your figures?

Right Here!

 

[sygyzy]

Originally posted by: Howard
1. Yes
2. Yes, and it runs at a nominal voltage of 1.8V which means that if the sticks aren't DOA, they should work fine in any mobo.
3. You said you had Program Files on F: because you ran out of space on the primary. The primary was 80GB. Correct?
6-7. Because it's cheaper to order it that way.

I just meant I had a secondary Program Files on F: because I ran out of space on C:. What case do you ilke Howard? If I wanted to get a beefier PSU to protect against upgrades, what would you recommend? The voltage issue you brought up, does it have to do with all those boot problems people have been having?

 

[Howard]

What case do I like? Whatever works and has 2x120mm mounts. Nothing fancy. I suspend my HDs anyway. The Antec SLK3000B works well enough for me (I don't own it ) and it can be had for less than $50 shipped.

For a bit more power, you can go with the Masscool PS-PSU460 at Newegg or the Enhance ENP-5150GH at ewiz. If silence is more your thing, there's nothing wrong with the S12-500 you picked out originally. For more bang for your buck (and likely more power than you could ever use), go for the Enhance ENS-0560G, also at ewiz. If you want modular, go with the Corsair CMPSU-520HX at ZZF or the Enermax Liberty ELT500AWT - you get more usable power per dollar with the Corsair.

Oh, and if you buy from ewiz or case-mod, go through Froogle first since you get a few dollars off (more than a few, in the case of case-mod, no pun intended). I haven't actually verified that ewiz make up the discount by bumping up shipping costs, but I'd hope ewiz doesn't dabble in shadiness like that.

Re: your last question (at the time of this edit) - possibly.

 

[acegazda]

You can use the 667 ram to POST, then oc it over 1.8v and you shouldn't have a problem, or so I'm told. If you've got a limited amount of $$ to throw around, a solid choice is the cooler master centurion 534, with a front 12cm intake and a bracket for a rear 12cm exhaust, it's a good value @ $50 AR including shipping.

 

[Bobthelost]

Originally posted by: acegazda

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: 1N0V471V
A single 7200RPM Perpendicular 16MB cache drive will be comparable to a 10,000RPM Raptor.

Where are you getting your figures?

Right Here!

Those arent' the worst HD comparison charts i've seen, but they are pretty bad. If there was a real world test amongst them then i must have missed it.

A large 7200.10 will be plenty fast, but it won't be as quick as a raptor 150. Perp recording is nice, but it's just a density boost at the end of the day. Higher max read/write and slower seeks.

Edit: Howards build gets a :thumbsup: from me, apart from the DVD drive, ive got a 3550 and much prefer my BenQ 1650.

 

[Howard]

So how are you supposed to use those benches to figure the disparity in speed in real-world usage?

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: Howard
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 - $226
Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 - $140
Enhance ENP-5140GH - $56
Shipping from ewiz.com - $12-15 UPS Ground

G.SKILL 2x1GB DDR2-667 5-5-5-15 1.8V - $157
Sapphire Radeon X1900XT 512MB - $316
NEC ND-3550A - $29
Shipping from newegg.com - $8-10 UPS 3 Day

Thermalright Ultra-120 - $43
Yate Loon D12SL-12 - $4, x 2 (needs a little modding to fit on the U-120)
Arctic Cooling Accelero X2 - $22 (you can spring for the VF900 if you like - it cools the VRM sinks better)
Shipping from jab-tech - $8-10 UPS Ground

You'll note there's no case or HD above. You can fill up an 80GB with the OS and programs?

Very very nice.
Except a few things i disagree with.


Definitely E6400 > E6600 in price/performance

The DS3 = too much trouble if you get unlucky.
Teh P5B is a monster with fewer issues.

Nice PSU; OP look at that one. Seriously, it's superb.

DDR2-667 already rated 5-5-5?
Not something i'd be looking at, as i could see that becoming a bottleneck for a high FSB, since you can't really loosen timings at all to get higher. Only thing you could do it up vdimm, which still would be a luck of the draw situation.
http://www.tankguys.biz/ddr2-3338-p-167...sCsid=e389e24081f2787f3160af8d4d7d31d6
Not so cheap, but this stuff will hit DDR2-1000 almost guaranteed w/o insane vdimm either.
It's what i shoulda bought instead of wasting my money on DDR2-1000 stuff...

 

[Howard]

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2006/07/18/core_2_duo_memory_timings/7.html

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: Howard
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2006/07/18/core_2_duo_memory_timings/7.html

Thanx for showing me something i already knew.

The OP wants to OC.

You recommended 667 that's already at very loose timings, meaning that unless you get lucky, i wouldn't count on that RAM getting up to say 425-450 (DDR2-850-900).


With the RAM i linked to, one can loosen timings from the defaults if speeds higher than 667 are needed w/o frying it with excessive vdimm, if more vdimm is even needed.

Assume a mediumish OC.
Say 8x425 like i have.

667 @ 5-5-5 now needs to get to 850 5-5-5, since i really doubt loosening to 5-6-6 will help much.
I'd venture that will require either great luck or excessive vdimm.

Make any sense???

At least 4-4-4 or 3-3-3 DDR2-667 will have somewhere to go...

 

[acegazda]

Originally posted by: Howard
So how are you supposed to use those benches to figure the disparity in speed in real-world usage?

hey, you asked for figures...

 

[Bobthelost]

Originally posted by: acegazda

Originally posted by: Howard
So how are you supposed to use those benches to figure the disparity in speed in real-world usage?

hey, you asked for figures...

I think he might have wanted ones that mean something...

 

[sygyzy]

Originally posted by: acegazda
You can use the 667 ram to POST, then oc it over 1.8v and you shouldn't have a problem, or so I'm told. If you've got a limited amount of $$ to throw around, a solid choice is the cooler master centurion 534, with a front 12cm intake and a bracket for a rear 12cm exhaust, it's a good value @ $50 AR including shipping.

If I save the o/c settings (over 1.8v), then restart, it won't post anymore right?

 

[sygyzy]

Originally posted by: Howard
What case do I like? Whatever works and has 2x120mm mounts. Nothing fancy. I suspend my HDs anyway. The Antec SLK3000B works well enough for me (I don't own it ) and it can be had for less than $50 shipped.

For a bit more power, you can go with the Masscool PS-PSU460 at Newegg or the Enhance ENP-5150GH at ewiz. If silence is more your thing, there's nothing wrong with the S12-500 you picked out originally. For more bang for your buck (and likely more power than you could ever use), go for the Enhance ENS-0560G, also at ewiz. If you want modular, go with the Corsair CMPSU-520HX at ZZF or the Enermax Liberty ELT500AWT - you get more usable power per dollar with the Corsair.

Oh, and if you buy from ewiz or case-mod, go through Froogle first since you get a few dollars off (more than a few, in the case of case-mod, no pun intended). I haven't actually verified that ewiz make up the discount by bumping up shipping costs, but I'd hope ewiz doesn't dabble in shadiness like that.

Re: your last question (at the time of this edit) - possibly.

Thanks for your power recommendations. I am going to get something other thant he S12 since it's so pricey at $120. I'll save some money with a lesser PSU. Too bad Newegg doesn't carry them ALL!

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: sygyzy

Originally posted by: Howard
What case do I like? Whatever works and has 2x120mm mounts. Nothing fancy. I suspend my HDs anyway. The Antec SLK3000B works well enough for me (I don't own it ) and it can be had for less than $50 shipped.

For a bit more power, you can go with the Masscool PS-PSU460 at Newegg or the Enhance ENP-5150GH at ewiz. If silence is more your thing, there's nothing wrong with the S12-500 you picked out originally. For more bang for your buck (and likely more power than you could ever use), go for the Enhance ENS-0560G, also at ewiz. If you want modular, go with the Corsair CMPSU-520HX at ZZF or the Enermax Liberty ELT500AWT - you get more usable power per dollar with the Corsair.

Oh, and if you buy from ewiz or case-mod, go through Froogle first since you get a few dollars off (more than a few, in the case of case-mod, no pun intended). I haven't actually verified that ewiz make up the discount by bumping up shipping costs, but I'd hope ewiz doesn't dabble in shadiness like that.

Re: your last question (at the time of this edit) - possibly.

Thanks for your power recommendations. I am going to get something other thant he S12 since it's so pricey at $120. I'll save some money with a lesser PSU. Too bad Newegg doesn't carry them ALL!

Just a word of caution. a PSU is NOT and I emphasize and repeat N-O-T the place to save money. Obviously Seasonic and PC Power and Cooling are the 2 top rated pretty much and the price comes with it. Now, Fortron and Enermax are the only 2 I'd recommend looking at in the $100 and lower range. UIt's just a matter of protecting your investment through quality and stability.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: sygyzy

Originally posted by: acegazda
You can use the 667 ram to POST, then oc it over 1.8v and you shouldn't have a problem, or so I'm told. If you've got a limited amount of $$ to throw around, a solid choice is the cooler master centurion 534, with a front 12cm intake and a bracket for a rear 12cm exhaust, it's a good value @ $50 AR including shipping.

If I save the o/c settings (over 1.8v), then restart, it won't post anymore right?

No no, most motherboards boot up by default at 1.8v on the memory. Most high performance memory is rated higher than this. IOnly a few brands will accept lower voltages and allow the system to run. You may have to get a stick of cheap memory to plug in and startup then change the voltages and install your performance memory. Corsair will boot at 1.8-2.1 (they recommend 2.1 for overclocked systems for enhanced stability). OCZ won't boot under 2.0v if I'm not mistaken. Patriot boots at 1.9 and has been known to boot at 1.8. Crucial Ballistix will boot at 1.8 in some systems and not in others and is rated at 2.1v. Mushkin I'm not sure about. It's rated at 1.9-2.1v but I have no idea if it will boot at 1.8

 

[sygyzy]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: sygyzy

Originally posted by: acegazda
You can use the 667 ram to POST, then oc it over 1.8v and you shouldn't have a problem, or so I'm told. If you've got a limited amount of $$ to throw around, a solid choice is the cooler master centurion 534, with a front 12cm intake and a bracket for a rear 12cm exhaust, it's a good value @ $50 AR including shipping.

If I save the o/c settings (over 1.8v), then restart, it won't post anymore right?

No no, most motherboards boot up by default at 1.8v on the memory. Most high performance memory is rated higher than this. IOnly a few brands will accept lower voltages and allow the system to run. You may have to get a stick of cheap memory to plug in and startup then change the voltages and install your performance memory. Corsair will boot at 1.8-2.1 (they recommend 2.1 for overclocked systems for enhanced stability). OCZ won't boot under 2.0v if I'm not mistaken. Patriot boots at 1.9 and has been known to boot at 1.8. Crucial Ballistix will boot at 1.8 in some systems and not in others and is rated at 2.1v. Mushkin I'm not sure about. It's rated at 1.9-2.1v but I have no idea if it will boot at 1.8

I can't believe memory got SO complicated with Conroe. Before, you just had to worry about stuff if you cared about overclocking but for the most part, 99% of ram worked in 99% of the motherboards. Now it's just crazy. I am so confused.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: sygyzy

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: sygyzy

Originally posted by: acegazda
You can use the 667 ram to POST, then oc it over 1.8v and you shouldn't have a problem, or so I'm told. If you've got a limited amount of $$ to throw around, a solid choice is the cooler master centurion 534, with a front 12cm intake and a bracket for a rear 12cm exhaust, it's a good value @ $50 AR including shipping.

If I save the o/c settings (over 1.8v), then restart, it won't post anymore right?

No no, most motherboards boot up by default at 1.8v on the memory. Most high performance memory is rated higher than this. IOnly a few brands will accept lower voltages and allow the system to run. You may have to get a stick of cheap memory to plug in and startup then change the voltages and install your performance memory. Corsair will boot at 1.8-2.1 (they recommend 2.1 for overclocked systems for enhanced stability). OCZ won't boot under 2.0v if I'm not mistaken. Patriot boots at 1.9 and has been known to boot at 1.8. Crucial Ballistix will boot at 1.8 in some systems and not in others and is rated at 2.1v. Mushkin I'm not sure about. It's rated at 1.9-2.1v but I have no idea if it will boot at 1.8

I can't believe memory got SO complicated with Conroe. Before, you just had to worry about stuff if you cared about overclocking but for the most part, 99% of ram worked in 99% of the motherboards. Now it's just crazy. I am so confused.

It's mostly because the chipset/BIOS boots up out of the box at 1.8v and most high performance memory uses non-standard chips that need higher voltages for low timings and increased performance. From what I understand, most of the fastest memory is actually a cherry picked ddr2-667 chip that has been reprogrammed for different timings and higher speeds. Some of them are actual DDR2-800 chips (these have timings like 4-4-4-12 and such).

 

[acegazda]

Originally posted by: sygyzy

Originally posted by: acegazda
You can use the 667 ram to POST, then oc it over 1.8v and you shouldn't have a problem, or so I'm told. If you've got a limited amount of $$ to throw around, a solid choice is the cooler master centurion 534, with a front 12cm intake and a bracket for a rear 12cm exhaust, it's a good value @ $50 AR including shipping.

If I save the o/c settings (over 1.8v), then restart, it won't post anymore right?

I was under the impression that it would... pleaz correct me if that's not the case!

 

[sygyzy]

I just wanted to update everyone especially since I feel like I owe it to you guys, to give you closure after being so helpful. Here is what I ended up with:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6400
Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
Enhance ENS-0560G
Patriot 2GB DDR2 667 Kit 4-4-4-12
Sapphire Radeon X1900XT 512MB
Scythe Ninja Plus
Arctic Cooling Accelero X2
Lian Li PC-6070

FYI - I bought the Lian Li PC-101 which is $200 case (not cheap) and very similar to the V1000/V2000 with the inverted power supply (sits at the bottom). Well I just returned it because of the way the PS compartment was designed. There is only about 0.5-1 inch of space for the wires. You have to bunch up all your cables and try to route them to a small hole that's all the way to one side of the compartment, so it can exit. With a modular power supply, this is impossible since the plugs are spread across the PS. Even with a non-modular PS, you'd have to pray that all the cables are bunched to the correct side of the PS so they line up. At first, I RMA'd my PS then ordered another one. Then I realized I'd have to play the PS exchange game until I found one that fit. No thank you.

BTW, Enermax has detailed CAD drawings of their supplies but none that show you how the cables are being outputted or positioned. Also, sites like eWiz have terrible pictures of the PS. Newegg is the best with pictures and angles but they don't carry most of the good PS's, at leas the ones recommended by Howard.