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Originally posted by: Stunt
Perhaps not...but you can't really defend taiwan without an attack on Chinese air force, and naval bases. Once this is done, you definately have two countries at war.

If this situation happened...who would back who?...I assume other countries would take sides.

Russia, sanctioned Asian countries, NK, mid east would support China?
EU, Americas = Taiwan?

You don't have to attack China's air force or naval bases with ground troops. I don't think that it would result in an all out ground invasion at all. If there is any 'war' or 'battle' - which is probably unlikely - it would probably only involve repelling China's forces from attacking Taiwan.

It would be interesting to see if anyone even takes sides if China invades Taiwan. What are the many European country's position on this? I doubt that they would do anything, just like the US.
 
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: KFCrispy
Hello, I have written a petition to the US Administration asking it to recognize and support democracy and self-determination in Taiwan. I went to the Democratic National Convention with 3 friends to pass out information on Taiwan and get the petition signed, and we were only able to come up with 100. I may try to organize a group to try this at the Republican National Convention as well... but it is difficult to push for this, especially because it's neither a focus of Democrats nor Republicans. Yet America is ignoring and helping to suppress this very fundamental human right just because we want money and trade from China.

If you are true supporter of democracy, please sign the online petition and pass this along!

http://www.petitiononline.com/Taiwan
info on Taiwan: http://homepages.nyu.edu/~czc201/Taiwan_Brochure.pdf

Well, I am a Taiwanese and I am all for our right of self-determination. But what do you think you are going to accomplish by outright defying China right now.

You have to be realistic about the situation. Number one, no one country will fight the battle against China for us. If Taiwanese want freedom, we have to fight for it ourselves. I am not so sure everyone wants to risk the prosperity and the freedom we currently enjoy by starting a war with China. Especially when large percentage of Taiwanese business have factories and investments in China.

Number two, make no mistake, China will invade Taiwan if Taiwan seeks international support and declare independance. China has opened up recently in economic policies, but the current admin is still occupied by conservatives who can't wait for an excuse to invade Taiwan and unify China.

Number three, Taiwan has seen many political changes recently and that has weaken our national defense. Taiwan economy has not been doing well in recent years either and the military spending has been decreasing. On the other hand, China economy has been doing very well and their military spending has been increasing steadily.

Considering all these factors, it's probably wise to maintain the status quo and not do anything that will alarm Chinese government. An outright US statement on supporting Taiwan's right of self-determination will certainly make a huge impact. I don't know if it will be huge enough to start a war, but with American's involvement in Iraq and the war against terrorist, it is likely that China will think this is a good opportunity to solve Taiwan issue once and for all while American have other big concerns.

So are you saying Taiwan should just do the status-quo until the day China is powerful enough militarily to take the island by force and fend off any US intervention at the same time? Sometime in 2009?
 
Originally posted by: maddogchen

So are you saying Taiwan should just do the status-quo until the day China is powerful enough militarily to take the island by force and fend off any US intervention at the same time? Sometime in 2009?

Hehe, what makes you think US is gonna intervine? I am saying Taiwan should do the status-quo until Taiwanese either prepare to die fighting, or China gives up Taiwan. Stop dreaming about other people fighting for your own freedom.
 
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: maddogchen

So are you saying Taiwan should just do the status-quo until the day China is powerful enough militarily to take the island by force and fend off any US intervention at the same time? Sometime in 2009?

Hehe, what makes you think US is gonna intervine? I am saying Taiwan should do the status-quo until Taiwanese either prepare to die fighting, or China gives up Taiwan. Stop dreaming about other people fighting for your own freedom.

oh i wasn't saying the US is gonna intervine, no one knows. I'm just saying China's military plans assumes US military intervention, so they are preparing their military to invade Taiwan and fend off a possible US intervention and hope to have everything in place before 200?something.
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Dissipate
What is so great about democracy?

You got a better solution lets here it.

Most people like the idea they have some input on thier affiars and like all the concepts democracy brings to the table...judicaial review...separation of powers..and the powers ultimatly derived for the people.

I've got news for you, representative democracy is fraud and also democracy failed. 🙁
 
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Dissipate
What is so great about democracy?

You got a better solution lets here it.

Most people like the idea they have some input on thier affiars and like all the concepts democracy brings to the table...judicaial review...separation of powers..and the powers ultimatly derived for the people.

I've got news for you, representative democracy is fraud and also democracy failed. 🙁

You are a riot! 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Dissipate
What is so great about democracy?

You got a better solution lets here it.

Most people like the idea they have some input on thier affiars and like all the concepts democracy brings to the table...judicaial review...separation of powers..and the powers ultimatly derived for the people.

I've got news for you, representative democracy is fraud and also democracy failed. 🙁

You must be right because you linked to a book!
 
Originally posted by: maddogchen
I like Ameesh's One China policy- One China under Taiwan.

He stole it from me! That was my bit!

But seriously, most people back in Taiwan from the green side supports Bush's reelection because that means the possible sells of weapons.
 
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Dissipate
What is so great about democracy?

You got a better solution lets here it.

Most people like the idea they have some input on thier affiars and like all the concepts democracy brings to the table...judicaial review...separation of powers..and the powers ultimatly derived for the people.

I've got news for you, representative democracy is fraud and also democracy failed. 🙁

You must be right because you linked to a book!

Read the book, then try to explain to me how I'm wrong. Furthermore, try explaining to me how elected "representatives" can represent countless mutually exclusive interests at the same time. Any other agent acting on someone's behalf who did this would be fired on the spot.

No sir, I have officially jumped off the bandwagon of the sacred cow known as democracy. I suggest everyone else do the same, professor Hoppe does an excellent job of explaining why.
 
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Dissipate
What is so great about democracy?

You got a better solution lets here it.

Most people like the idea they have some input on thier affiars and like all the concepts democracy brings to the table...judicaial review...separation of powers..and the powers ultimatly derived for the people.

I've got news for you, representative democracy is fraud and also democracy failed. 🙁

You must be right because you linked to a book!

Read the book, then try to explain to me how I'm wrong. Furthermore, try explaining to me how elected "representatives" can represent countless mutually exclusive interests at the same time. Any other agent acting on someone's behalf who did this would be fired on the spot.

No sir, I have officially jumped off the bandwagon of the sacred cow known as democracy. I suggest everyone else do the same, professor Hoppe does an excellent job of explaining why.

I already agreed with you. You see, as I previously stated, dictatorships are the way to go. I read a book about it, too!

No sir, I have officially dumped off the bandwagon of the sacred cow known as democracy, too. I suggest we all live under a dictatorship.
 
Originally posted by: maddogchen
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: KFCrispy
Hello, I have written a petition to the US Administration asking it to recognize and support democracy and self-determination in Taiwan. I went to the Democratic National Convention with 3 friends to pass out information on Taiwan and get the petition signed, and we were only able to come up with 100. I may try to organize a group to try this at the Republican National Convention as well... but it is difficult to push for this, especially because it's neither a focus of Democrats nor Republicans. Yet America is ignoring and helping to suppress this very fundamental human right just because we want money and trade from China.

If you are true supporter of democracy, please sign the online petition and pass this along!

http://www.petitiononline.com/Taiwan
info on Taiwan: http://homepages.nyu.edu/~czc201/Taiwan_Brochure.pdf

Well, I am a Taiwanese and I am all for our right of self-determination. But what do you think you are going to accomplish by outright defying China right now.

You have to be realistic about the situation. Number one, no one country will fight the battle against China for us. If Taiwanese want freedom, we have to fight for it ourselves. I am not so sure everyone wants to risk the prosperity and the freedom we currently enjoy by starting a war with China. Especially when large percentage of Taiwanese business have factories and investments in China.

Number two, make no mistake, China will invade Taiwan if Taiwan seeks international support and declare independance. China has opened up recently in economic policies, but the current admin is still occupied by conservatives who can't wait for an excuse to invade Taiwan and unify China.

Number three, Taiwan has seen many political changes recently and that has weaken our national defense. Taiwan economy has not been doing well in recent years either and the military spending has been decreasing. On the other hand, China economy has been doing very well and their military spending has been increasing steadily.

Considering all these factors, it's probably wise to maintain the status quo and not do anything that will alarm Chinese government. An outright US statement on supporting Taiwan's right of self-determination will certainly make a huge impact. I don't know if it will be huge enough to start a war, but with American's involvement in Iraq and the war against terrorist, it is likely that China will think this is a good opportunity to solve Taiwan issue once and for all while American have other big concerns.

So are you saying Taiwan should just do the status-quo until the day China is powerful enough militarily to take the island by force and fend off any US intervention at the same time? Sometime in 2009?

2020 to be exact. i agree with washington dc on this one. its best for taiwan not to make any moves right now, it will only result in conflict. the best option is to retain the status quo until the mainland has relaxed its grip more on the island. will this happen? most likely, because the mainland is clearly stepping away gradually from its hard-line communist ideals. with these reforms occuring on the mainland, it will be logical to guess its politics will become more tolerable.

however, if taiwan decides to move now, when china feels very strongly about the subject, it can only result in harm. for both sides. the island would likely be damaged severely if not invaded, and the chinese economy and relations with the US would suffer greatly (relative to the very good relations right now).

no side would benefit from a sudden move, and it would be best to follow DC's advice and wait it out.

EDIT: as for the US-taiwan issue. the whitehouse has recently (i think in this past week) refreshed its position in saying they will defend the island but it will NOT fight a war for taiwan because it is not a "main interest" of the united states.
 
If there was good leadership who were fiscal, not oppressive, rights driven, economically enlightened, and popular....i'd be for dictatorship.

we have yet to see anything even close to this...even in a democracy. But think of the money wasted on politcs and what not. Look at fundraising alone for the campaigns...then look at the cost of committees, councils, houses of reps, several governments representing the same people. etc etc.

This ideal situation would never happen, but interesting concept
 
Not going to happen, US relations with China can't be disturbed at this point.

In the long run, the relations between US and China might make the Taiwan unimportant enough for China to let it go, it pretty much depends on how much the US (and the EU for that matter but to a lesser degree) are willing to look the other way while the Chinese leadership contiue the slaughtering of the political opponents within.

China and the death penalty for political opposition? Well, daily executions shouln't disturb the trade after all. *insert something about liberation and freedom here*
 
I don't think it's worth it to support Taiwan. If the US alienates China and other nations don't, then the US would be severely hurt. For some reason I don't think other nations support Taiwan as much as the US does.
 
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I don't think it's worth it to support Taiwan. If the US alienates China and other nations don't, then the US would be severely hurt. For some reason I don't think other nations support Taiwan as much as the US does.

I agree, it needs to be a worldwide action.

While the US does indeed support Taiwan, it still supports the brutal regime of China too, kinda hard to support both if you ask me.

While other countries continue to critizise China for the brutal executions of political prisoners the silence from the mightiest nations of all is deafening.
 
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I don't think it's worth it to support Taiwan. If the US alienates China and other nations don't, then the US would be severely hurt. For some reason I don't think other nations support Taiwan as much as the US does.

I agree, it needs to be a worldwide action.

While the US does indeed support Taiwan, it still supports the brutal regime of China too, kinda hard to support both if you ask me. It would be like saying Canada supports Cuba.

While other countries continue to critizise China for the brutal executions of political prisoners the silence from the mightiest nations of all is deafening.

The US doesn't uniquely support China. I don't consider trade to be support because then everyone nation in the world supports each other and that's just too juvenile to consider.

The thing is that everyone would have to come together and I doubt that solidarity would happen. If the US defends Taiwan, then trade between China and the US would be strained, much to the benefit of other nations. They'd benefit a lot from inaction. I think other nations should help out more with Taiwan. Right now it's basically only the US defending Taiwan. Others should really step up and help out a democracy. This is a responsibility of many, not only the US.

I read all sorts of critical statements and reports from at least the US regarding China, including about the SARS whistleblower. I'm pretty sure others in the world do too.

If you think about it, most third world nations are oppressive. I think it would be pretty devastating to just stop supporting any trade with them.
 
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Dissipate
What is so great about democracy?

You got a better solution lets here it.

Most people like the idea they have some input on thier affiars and like all the concepts democracy brings to the table...judicaial review...separation of powers..and the powers ultimatly derived for the people.

I've got news for you, representative democracy is fraud and also democracy failed. 🙁

You must be right because you linked to a book!

Read the book, then try to explain to me how I'm wrong. Furthermore, try explaining to me how elected "representatives" can represent countless mutually exclusive interests at the same time. Any other agent acting on someone's behalf who did this would be fired on the spot.

No sir, I have officially jumped off the bandwagon of the sacred cow known as democracy. I suggest everyone else do the same, professor Hoppe does an excellent job of explaining why.

I already agreed with you. You see, as I previously stated, dictatorships are the way to go. I read a book about it, too!

No sir, I have officially dumped off the bandwagon of the sacred cow known as democracy, too. I suggest we all live under a dictatorship.

404 - Teh strawman humor not found
 
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Dissipate
What is so great about democracy?

You got a better solution lets here it.

Most people like the idea they have some input on thier affiars and like all the concepts democracy brings to the table...judicaial review...separation of powers..and the powers ultimatly derived for the people.

I've got news for you, representative democracy is fraud and also democracy failed. 🙁

You must be right because you linked to a book!

Read the book, then try to explain to me how I'm wrong. Furthermore, try explaining to me how elected "representatives" can represent countless mutually exclusive interests at the same time. Any other agent acting on someone's behalf who did this would be fired on the spot.

No sir, I have officially jumped off the bandwagon of the sacred cow known as democracy. I suggest everyone else do the same, professor Hoppe does an excellent job of explaining why.

I already agreed with you. You see, as I previously stated, dictatorships are the way to go. I read a book about it, too!

No sir, I have officially dumped off the bandwagon of the sacred cow known as democracy, too. I suggest we all live under a dictatorship.

404 - Teh strawman humor not found

LOL YOU SO FUNNY! YOU GO GIRL!! ^_^
 
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Dissipate
What is so great about democracy?

You got a better solution lets here it.

Most people like the idea they have some input on thier affiars and like all the concepts democracy brings to the table...judicaial review...separation of powers..and the powers ultimatly derived for the people.

I've got news for you, representative democracy is fraud and also democracy failed. 🙁

You must be right because you linked to a book!

Read the book, then try to explain to me how I'm wrong. Furthermore, try explaining to me how elected "representatives" can represent countless mutually exclusive interests at the same time. Any other agent acting on someone's behalf who did this would be fired on the spot.

No sir, I have officially jumped off the bandwagon of the sacred cow known as democracy. I suggest everyone else do the same, professor Hoppe does an excellent job of explaining why.

I already agreed with you. You see, as I previously stated, dictatorships are the way to go. I read a book about it, too!

No sir, I have officially dumped off the bandwagon of the sacred cow known as democracy, too. I suggest we all live under a dictatorship.

404 - Teh strawman humor not found

LOL YOU SO FUNNY! YOU GO GIRL!! ^_^

Let's see if I can remember the formula. Oh yeah, strawman + ad hom + appeal to tradition = moron! Ding ding ding, we have a winnar!
 
I've meet Hans Hoppe...long time ago he was a visiting professor at calpoly and tought my micro-econ class.

Super guy..thick austrian accent..but I speak german and was more libertarian back then so he liked me... almost had me changing major.. I think he's at UNLV now.
 
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Dissipate
What is so great about democracy?

You got a better solution lets here it.

Most people like the idea they have some input on thier affiars and like all the concepts democracy brings to the table...judicaial review...separation of powers..and the powers ultimatly derived for the people.

I've got news for you, representative democracy is fraud and also democracy failed. 🙁

You must be right because you linked to a book!

Read the book, then try to explain to me how I'm wrong. Furthermore, try explaining to me how elected "representatives" can represent countless mutually exclusive interests at the same time. Any other agent acting on someone's behalf who did this would be fired on the spot.

No sir, I have officially jumped off the bandwagon of the sacred cow known as democracy. I suggest everyone else do the same, professor Hoppe does an excellent job of explaining why.

I already agreed with you. You see, as I previously stated, dictatorships are the way to go. I read a book about it, too!

No sir, I have officially dumped off the bandwagon of the sacred cow known as democracy, too. I suggest we all live under a dictatorship.

404 - Teh strawman humor not found

LOL YOU SO FUNNY! YOU GO GIRL!! ^_^

Let's see if I can remember the formula. Oh yeah, strawman + ad hom + appeal to tradition = moron! Ding ding ding, we have a winnar!

That formula seems like a winner when comparing it to someone linking to Amazon as proof for a discussion. Next you'll be posting the number of google search results as proof.
 
So basically you want China to invade and people to DIE, and Taiwan to continue in this "strategic" do-nothing gain-nothing formula... if the US never makes any progress whatsoever--i'm not asking for an all-out defiance of China--then nothing will ever progress. China will simply overtake Taiwan and then all of Asia. Japan will be next. why? because if China has the Taiwan Strait and access to the Pacific rim, they can block or tax the shipping route and deploy submarines undetected into the other side--the big other side, where Hawaii and California sit.

the US has made small leaps forward in the past and needs to continue. one example is the Taiwan Relations Act and Clinton sending ships into the Strait when China fired missiles during the 1996 presidential election. the Taiwanese community has asked the Democratic party to reinstate its pledge to the Taiwan Relations Act (Gore 2000 Platform had it, and the section on China/Taiwan was copied word for word for this year's Platform with only the sentence on the TRA removed). however, the Congress recently bsaically reiterated the TRA with a "re-support" vote. that's a good thing. because China is building its military and even is planning for US and Japanese aide, as well as its military chief talking about the year 2020 for Taiwan (in CNN's article http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/07/15/china.taiwan.wargames.reut/index.html,, he said "either before or after 2020"... why would he even say 2020 if it's before or after), the situation needs to be dealt with. and we can take baby-steps now, but if Taiwan isn't able to defend its turf whenever China invades, China can easily take all of Asia.. then the world. it's extreme, i know, but Hitler said he'd be satisfied when Europe let him take some country (sorry forgot.. the first one he invaded?), and obviously that didn't fully satisfy him.... but what i emphasize is simple basic human rights for Taiwan. as a US citizen, it is one of the few thing i can do to actually help.

i just want to bring this issue from the bottom of the drawer to near the top of the major issues list for the President, whoever it may be. and while it's JUST basic rights for Taiwan, i believe there is an even greater danger for the world. furthermore, the US will simply lose its power as China grows, and anyone challenging the US's place in the world is kind of "an enemy", especially if it can't be trusted. this is going too extreme, yeah, but those are serious implications that need to be thought about if you simply care about money over freedom and democracy.
 
Originally posted by: KFCrispy
So basically you want China to invade and people to DIE, and Taiwan to continue in this "strategic" do-nothing gain-nothing formula... if the US never makes any progress whatsoever--i'm not asking for an all-out defiance of China--then nothing will ever progress. China will simply overtake Taiwan and then all of Asia. Japan will be next. why? because if China has the Taiwan Strait and access to the Pacific rim, they can block or tax the shipping route and deploy submarines undetected into the other side--the big other side, where Hawaii and California sit.

the US has made small leaps forward in the past and needs to continue. one example is the Taiwan Relations Act and Clinton sending ships into the Strait when China fired missiles during the 1996 presidential election. the Taiwanese community has asked the Democratic party to reinstate its pledge to the Taiwan Relations Act (Gore 2000 Platform had it, and the section on China/Taiwan was copied word for word for this year's Platform with only the sentence on the TRA removed). however, the Congress recently bsaically reiterated the TRA with a "re-support" vote. that's a good thing. because China is building its military and even is planning for US and Japanese aide, as well as its military chief talking about the year 2020 for Taiwan (in CNN's article http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/07/15/china.taiwan.wargames.reut/index.html,, he said "either before or after 2020"... why would he even say 2020 if it's before or after), the situation needs to be dealt with. and we can take baby-steps now, but if Taiwan isn't able to defend its turf whenever China invades, China can easily take all of Asia.. then the world. it's extreme, i know, but Hitler said he'd be satisfied when Europe let him take some country (sorry forgot.. the first one he invaded?), and obviously that didn't fully satisfy him.... but what i emphasize is simple basic human rights for Taiwan. as a US citizen, it is one of the few thing i can do to actually help.

i just want to bring this issue from the bottom of the drawer to near the top of the major issues list for the President, whoever it may be. and while it's JUST basic rights for Taiwan, i believe there is an even greater danger for the world. furthermore, the US will simply lose its power as China grows, and anyone challenging the US's place in the world is kind of "an enemy", especially if it can't be trusted. this is going too extreme, yeah, but those are serious implications that need to be thought about if you simply care about money over freedom and democracy.

The US already does so much for Taiwan. It's time for Asian and European countries to step up and contribute. I doubt that they would do much though.
 
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Dissipate
What is so great about democracy?

You got a better solution lets here it.

Most people like the idea they have some input on thier affiars and like all the concepts democracy brings to the table...judicaial review...separation of powers..and the powers ultimatly derived for the people.

I've got news for you, representative democracy is fraud and also democracy failed. 🙁

You must be right because you linked to a book!

Read the book, then try to explain to me how I'm wrong. Furthermore, try explaining to me how elected "representatives" can represent countless mutually exclusive interests at the same time. Any other agent acting on someone's behalf who did this would be fired on the spot.

No sir, I have officially jumped off the bandwagon of the sacred cow known as democracy. I suggest everyone else do the same, professor Hoppe does an excellent job of explaining why.

I already agreed with you. You see, as I previously stated, dictatorships are the way to go. I read a book about it, too!

No sir, I have officially dumped off the bandwagon of the sacred cow known as democracy, too. I suggest we all live under a dictatorship.

404 - Teh strawman humor not found

LOL YOU SO FUNNY! YOU GO GIRL!! ^_^

Let's see if I can remember the formula. Oh yeah, strawman + ad hom + appeal to tradition = moron! Ding ding ding, we have a winnar!

That formula seems like a winner when comparing it to someone linking to Amazon as proof for a discussion. Next you'll be posting the number of google search results as proof.

I never said the book is "proof" of anything. I implied he should read it before making ASSumptions, such as believing democracy is a legitimate political system, or that any political system is legitimate for that matter.

I for one have already read poly sci books which tout democracy, therefore, I've seen both sides of the argument and have made an educated assessment. It is clear he has not because he has come to the "conclusion" that lack of democracy must mean a dictatorship. Wow, I just found another fallacy, false dilemma!
 
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Dissipate
What is so great about democracy?

You got a better solution lets here it.

Most people like the idea they have some input on thier affiars and like all the concepts democracy brings to the table...judicaial review...separation of powers..and the powers ultimatly derived for the people.

I've got news for you, representative democracy is fraud and also democracy failed. 🙁

You must be right because you linked to a book!

Read the book, then try to explain to me how I'm wrong. Furthermore, try explaining to me how elected "representatives" can represent countless mutually exclusive interests at the same time. Any other agent acting on someone's behalf who did this would be fired on the spot.

No sir, I have officially jumped off the bandwagon of the sacred cow known as democracy. I suggest everyone else do the same, professor Hoppe does an excellent job of explaining why.

I already agreed with you. You see, as I previously stated, dictatorships are the way to go. I read a book about it, too!

No sir, I have officially dumped off the bandwagon of the sacred cow known as democracy, too. I suggest we all live under a dictatorship.

404 - Teh strawman humor not found

LOL YOU SO FUNNY! YOU GO GIRL!! ^_^

Let's see if I can remember the formula. Oh yeah, strawman + ad hom + appeal to tradition = moron! Ding ding ding, we have a winnar!

That formula seems like a winner when comparing it to someone linking to Amazon as proof for a discussion. Next you'll be posting the number of google search results as proof.

I never said the book is "proof" of anything. I implied he should read it before making ASSumptions, such as believing democracy is a legitimate political system, or that any political system is legitimate for that matter.

I for one have already read poly sci books which tout democracy, therefore, I've seen both sides of the argument and have made an educated assessment. It is clear he has not because he has come to the "conclusion" that lack of democracy must mean a dictatorship. Wow, I just found another fallacy, false dilemma!

Why don't you just provide your reasons instead of hiding behind a link for a book that nobody is going to buy just to verify your post or to make you happy? I wouldn't provide a link to a book on democracy and say to read it. That's just a very ridiculous thing to do on an internet message board!

I don't think he meant that lack of democracy is a dictatorship. I believe he is mocking you.
 
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