Help:- Should we talk to a lawyer?

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

I think a company needs a "good" reason to can an employee. Like, if you steal a paperclip, they can't fire you. Or, if after 15 years of being on time you're 5 min late I don't think they can fire you. This seems about as stupid, especially since they can't seemingly proof that she didn't pay for lunch.

Actually, they typically don't need any reason at all. Unless you are under a contract, most jobs are "at will" employment, and the employer retains the right to fire an employee for any reason, at long as it is not for an area specfically protected by the law (e.g., their race or gender, or because they are a whistle-blower). I am NOT a labor-law specialist, though, so I am not even going to wade into this particular case. I would recommend at least a consultation with a labor attorney.

 

[Buttzilla]

best of luck to her and props to you for standing by her. i have a few friends who are pharms and although it's stereotyped that they're just 'pill counters' it's actually hard work. You are essentially a librarian for medicine and the amount of knowledge you must retain and dispense is enormous. Besides regular customers who come in they must also deal w/ stupid ass doctors.

anywho, good luck and here's a :beer: for you.

 

[Zombie]

she asked them and this is all there is. It's the accusation that is hurtful and loss of job means very little.

 

[TommyVercetti]

Originally posted by: Hammer
there's got to be more to it than that. no company would fire someone over that one incident.

A company I worked for fired there database administrator over some really really stupid thing. The database that she supported was the lifeblood of the company. Anything happen to the database, the company would have incurred a HUGE loss. Yet they fired her. So sometimes, it's just stupid management.

 

[Hammer]

Originally posted by: Zombie
she asked them and this is all there is. It's the accusation that is hurtful and loss of job means very little.

well i understand that, but i meant they're might be other circumstances. like they wanted to lay people off but didnt want to pay severance or unemployment.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Hammer

Originally posted by: Zombie
she asked them and this is all there is. It's the accusation that is hurtful and loss of job means very little.

well i understand that, but i meant they're might be other circumstances. like they wanted to lay people off but didnt want to pay severance or unemployment.

Could be. I'd wonder if there there really isn't something else going on that she' hasn't mentioned - has she always been happy there and get on well with people?

 

[DAM]

Originally posted by: TommyVercetti

Originally posted by: Hammer
there's got to be more to it than that. no company would fire someone over that one incident.

A company I worked for fired there database administrator over some really really stupid thing. The database that she supported was the lifeblood of the company. Anything happen to the database, the company would have incurred a HUGE loss. Yet they fired her. So sometimes, it's just stupid management.

Why was she fired? What happend to the DB? Damnit complete stories, don't leave us in suspence!

 

[Zombie]

yeh but apparently the store did have lot of problems even before she moved here. To me it seems like they are just trying to make an example out of her.

Some other employee reporting does not mean squat. Its her word against their and there is no physical proof. If they can't find a $4.00 entry does not mean it doesn't exist some where.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Hammer

Originally posted by: Zombie
she asked them and this is all there is. It's the accusation that is hurtful and loss of job means very little.

well i understand that, but i meant they're might be other circumstances. like they wanted to lay people off but didnt want to pay severance or unemployment.

These tactics, while on the surface cruel and heartless, are actually endorsed by the Dept of Labor as cost saving techniques for business. It has the added benefit of lowering unemployment numbers reported by the Gov.
I agree with Don_Vito.... see a Labor attorney. A consultation should be cheap / free.

 

[TheGameIs21]

From the offices of A, T and OT crack atty's at law....

See an atty. There MUST be missing items outside of what you have stated. How do they know she got $4.00 worth of food? How was it discovered that she might not have paid the said $4.00? Is she willing to offer that she pay $4.00 (possibly again) and submit a letter of resignation so that she has a "clean record" and she can move onto a better company?

An atty would best secure her interests incase they decide to terminate. Even "At Will" states can't fire someone for smoking crack at their desks unless it is fact. If they are going to terminate her, they have to give a true reason. In this case, they must provide proof that she "stole" food.

 

[Zombie]

I feel that in this case an annonymous tip is not sufficient. They have to have actual proof to do something like this.

 

[ExplodingBoy]

Zombie,

You should probably contact a lawyer; they can at least tell you whether or not you have a case. Aside from acknolwedging that this situation sux let's look at the facts we know about so far:

- Loss Prevention can find no record that she paid for the lunch.
- She can't provide any confirmation that she paid for it.
- They have a signed statement to that effect.
- It's (presumably) against company policy to eat lunch w/o paying for it.

The fact that it was a hectic shift and that could likely make her forget to pay is not relevant. They have her in writing admitting that she can't confirm that she paid. So pretty much she may be screwed. But I think you should talk to a lawyer anyway to a) confirm if you have a case or not, b) just in case this is part of a larger fishing expedition to try and pin more charges on her.

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: TheGameIs21
From the offices of A, T and OT crack atty's at law....

See an atty. There MUST be missing items outside of what you have stated. How do they know she got $4.00 worth of food? How was it discovered that she might not have paid the said $4.00? Is she willing to offer that she pay $4.00 (possibly again) and submit a letter of resignation so that she has a "clean record" and she can move onto a better company?

An atty would best secure her interests incase they decide to terminate. Even "At Will" states can't fire someone for smoking crack at their desks unless it is fact. If they are going to terminate her, they have to give a true reason. In this case, they must provide proof that she "stole" food.

The incident occured on Feb 21st and they did not approach/confront her until last Thursday. My guess would be that they would have spent that time checking with their legal and or personnel department for all the information, proof and legalities of their actions way before they even mentioned it to her.

Bottom line is... they must have a record that the food is gone, and that she took it and they must be 99% sure that she did not pay for it (100% mistake, I am sure). They could not fire her for stealing, as that would open the door for a libel suit as they do not have her on tape stealing. Therefore, it falls under the general 'violation of company policy' reason for termination.

But the company has done their homework and covered their azzes before they even called her on the carpet, I am sure. They would not leave themselves open to any question of their rights to act as they did. It sucks, no doubt, but it is the american way these days.

 

[Zombie]

I guess I should make it clear that we are not looking to score big by suing the company. All we want is to get her name cleared because nobody really has enough proof to do anything and needless to say she won't be working there.

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: Zombie
I guess I should make it clear that we are not looking to score big by suing the company. All we want is to get her name cleared because nobody really has enough proof to do anything and needless to say she won't be working there.

She should have NEVER signed anything. It is kinda late now. And in the great scheme of things, this is not the end of the world, indeed, she is better off not working for a company like that. It might seem a big deal now, but it will be nothing once she gets another job and puts this behind her.

And remember... this is only with this company. It cannot follow her... if this company gets called for a reference and tells the potential new employer that she got fired for 'stealing'... boy oh boy, then you will have a lawsuit for them.

 

[waggy]

while it sucks to be fired for $4 thieft is thieft!

while you dont agree with what happened i do not feel sorry for her. She had lunch and didnt pay for it.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Zombie
I guess I should make it clear that we are not looking to score big by suing the company. All we want is to get her name cleared because nobody really has enough proof to do anything and needless to say she won't be working there.

I'm sorry, but "get her name cleared" from what exactly?

Ok, so you pay big bucks for a lawyer to take the company to court and have what done? The one paper in her personal records indicating why she was fired removed? Don't mean to be harsh, but so what...big deal. Move on, she can easily find a new job and if she doesn't believe the charges then that's all that matters. The cost/benefit is just not there.

And I don't know about Massachusettes laws, but here in Texas and many other states, there is an "at will" relationship. Companies can let you go for any reason (generally speaking), just as you can leave for any reason. A job is not owed to you, just like the company is not owed an employee.

 

[Zombie]

CPA:- There is a difference in just being let go and being accused of something stupid and then being let go. As far as getting her name cleared is concerned I guess I was thinking more emotionally and less logically .

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Zombie
CPA:- There is a difference in just being let go and being accused of something stupid and then being let go. As far as getting her name cleared is concerned I guess I was thinking more emotionally and less logically .

I understand and agree, I just wouldn't suggest paying a couple of grand to fight this. I just don't think it's worth it.

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I thought pharamcists could easily get jobs? If I was let go over possibly not paying $4 for a lunch, and it was a simply mistake, I'd tell them to eat some ass. Even if she gets her job back, she should find a new one, and when she finds that new one give her current company exactly zero notice. Just one day call in and say she quits. What a POS employer.

Great job loss prevention! They lost $4 AND a freaking employee. Whoo hoo for them.

and they spent about $1000 in HR payroll!

what company is this so i can make sure i don't own any stock.

 

[godmare]

She signed a statement that she may have stolen?
That doesn't seem like a good move. Obviously they were taking it seriously by talking to her in the first place.

 

[Zombie]

don't know if I can get in legal trouble for saying their name in public but it was an aweful company even before this happened. If you think Tech companies are bad for outsourcing this is probably 10 times worse.

but thanks for the support hopefully she will find this helpful .


godmare:- She said she doesn't remember and that she "might" have forgotten in all the rush at the pharmacy window. But seriously who remembers what they did for lunch 2 months ago.

 

[godmare]

Originally posted by: Zombie
don't know if I can get in legal trouble for saying their name in public but it was an aweful company even before this happened. If you think Tech companies are bad for outsourcing this is probably 10 times worse.

but thanks for the support hopefully she will find this helpful .


godmare:- She said she doesn't remember and that she "might" have forgotten in all the rush at the pharmacy window. But seriously who remembers what they did for lunch 2 months ago.

Right, of course, but she provided ammunition for them by signing that document.
If you think contacting a lawyer is a good idea, then by all means please do. I'm just saying that that definitely places some favor in the employer.

 

[Zombie]

yes, I know that but when you have 3 people interogating you its hard to think straight.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Fact: She can be fired for wearing the wrong color socks to work.

Fact: With he current shortage of Pharmacists, she should be able to find another job very easily.

Fact: The former employer prob has a blanket policy covering the information relased to her potential new employers, they won't say crap because they'll be worried about a lawsuit.

Fact: Since the termination wasn't related to professional misadventure, her future employer won't care about it.

Sucks, but she needs to move on, all you'll do is waste time & money. Was she working for Wal Mart?

BTW, sorry it happened, stuff like this is unfair, but you aren't issued a "Life is fair" coupon @ birth