Help searching for a premium laptop

skaertus

Senior member
Mar 20, 2010
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I am on a real quest for a new laptop and I would like some feedback from you. Sorry if this post goes on to be too long, and I understand if you do not have the patience to read it until the end, it feels like a novel... but anyway, here I go.

First, a little bit of backgroud, so you can understand the reasons for my search. I live in Brazil, not in the US. In Brazil, the prices of consumer electronics are sky high, and we have perhaps the most expensive computers in the world due to heavy taxes charged by the government, which are really out of this world. I will give you an example of how prices here are insane: a low-end 13-inch MacBook Air (US$ 1,199 in the US) costs US$ 2,500 in Brazil; and a low-end 15-inch MacBook Pro with a retina display (US$ 2,199 in the US) costs US$ 5,000 in Brazil. Due to this fact, most laptop computers sold around here are very low-end models, and not every manufacturer sells every model here.

I am travelling to the US later this month, and I will stay until October 28 (shortly after Windows 8 is released). As you may wonder, I intend to purchase a new laptop while I am in the US, benefitting from both the lower prices and the higher availability of models. Of course I would like to wait for the release of Intel Haswell, but unfortunately I don't know if I will be able to go to the US again next year, so I could well purchase the laptop now (and another one next year, if that is the case - it is still cheaper to buy two of them in the US than buying just one in Brazil).

Now, I'll tell you what I want, from my past experience.

I bought a 13-inch MacBook (white polycarbonate model) in May 2008. It had a Core 2 Duo T8300 2.4 GHz processor, 2 GB RAM, a 160 GB HD, and a screen with a 1280x800 resolution. Although it was one of the cheaper MacBook models (and it still paid over US$ 2,000 for it), I found it to be very good. It had a fast processor in the beginning, and an adequate, if not large, amount of RAM. And it was polished. It felt polished. The trackpad was not yet the multi-touch trackpad, but it was comfortable. The keyboard was very pleasant to type on - perhaps the best keyboard I've ever used on a laptop, and I still thinks that it beats the keyboards in current MacBook models. The webcam had a good quality. No heating issues. And it was thin and light enough to be carried around without much trouble.

There were, of course, some drawbacks, from the beginning. The screen resolution was far from ideal. I like to have as much working area as I can in my computer screen. With a 1280x800 resolution, I just couldn't put two documents side-by-side, and I felt that impacted my productivity. There were only two USB ports, and they were positioned in a way that made it difficult to plug two devices at the same time. And, while it was fast at the beginning, I found the 5,400 RPM HD to be real slow - I could feel it was the bottleneck of the laptop. When I tried to connect an exteral monitor to it - to increase the low resolution and give me a larger work area - I felt the limitations of the integrated Intel video card. As time went by, the processor and RAM were not adequate anymore. I like fast computers and immediate response, and the MacBook was not delivering it anymore.

Then I decided that I had to buy another computer. It was early 2011. There are not many options in the Mac world. And, in addition, I felt the need to move back to Windows. Mac OS was great, but it didn't have everything in terms of software and, particularly, I felt that Microsoft Office was a much better product on its Windows version. It was probably a good time to buy a new computer, since Sandy Bridge had already launched.

In my new purchase, I tried to address the issues that bothered me so much in the MacBook. Then I bought a custom Sager NP5160, a big departure from the MacBook. Prices being what they are in Brazil, I found it to be affordable at about US$ 2,500. It came with a Core i7-2720QM processor, 8 GB RAM, a dedicated video card, a 500 HD (hybrid with SSD), and a 15-inch screen with a 1920x1080 resolution. I have to tell that this is a fast machine. Very powerful and fast. The screen is very good and bright (although there is a dead pixel on it!), and the resolution is much better for seeing documents side-by-side. And it has a dedicated video card, which, in fact, I think I never made use of.

However, it lacks polish. First, it is heavy and cumbersome. It weighs 2.6kg, and it may not be too far away from the 2kg of the MacBook. But it feels much heavier. And bulky. Hard, very hard to carry it around. It doesn't feel well built at all. The keyboard feels cheap and it is displeasing to type on. It is also chicket-type, like the one in the MacBook, but it is dreadful. I hadn't realize how good the keyboard on te MacBook was until I typed on this Sager. The trackpad is even worse, I just can't use this laptop without a mouse. Not comfortable at all to use it, and I can't put my arms in a good position. The webcam is also terrible; it can't capture light well enough, people can't see me at all. First, I thought it was a problem with the drivers, but it is not. The webcam in the MacBook is so much better. It has four USB ports, but not all of them seem to work all the time. Sometimes they work, sometimes just one or two seem to work. And it goes hot - very hot, and sometimes I can feel the heat while I am using the mouse. In fact, the laptop may be adequate for playing games or something, but it delivers a less-than-optimal experience.

That is why, even having such a high-end machine, I intend to buy another one. I would like a laptop that has all the features I liked in the MacBook and all the features I expected to have with the Sager. I would like a laptop which delivers a premium experience, with no (or few) loose ends. I want a good keyboard, which is comfortable to type on (this turns out to be very important to me, since I type a lot, as you may see from the size of this post). I want a good trackpad so I don't have to use a separate mouse. I want to rest my hands in a comfortable position while I am using it. I want a webcam which is at least OK. I don't want the laptop to run too hot or to make strange noises. I want a good screen with a large work area, so I can see two documents side-by-side to boost my productivity. And I want it to be fast. I will not use it to play heavy games or to edit large videos. I will use it mostly to surf the Internet (sometimes with dozens of browser tabs and windows opened at the same time), use Microsoft Office programs, reference management software (Endnote, Zotero, that kind of stuff, with really large libraries), use OCR software (ABBYY Fine Reader), PDF readers and searchers, and do it all at the same time - lots of multi-tasking here. While I'm not doing tasks which are really intensive, but I really like instant responses all the time, no matter how many tasks I am performing at the same time (and this is why I bought a quad-core i7). I would also like an SSD instead of an HD or an hybrid drive - I just feel that the HD is slow and sluggish and I want software to open immediately. I don't care if I don't have too much storage space; I don't use so much of it anymore. I care about speed, and I don't want to wait for the computer to boot, or for software to open.

From this background, I hope you are able to help my on my quest. I could test some laptops around here, but not all options are available. As computers in Brazil are so insanely expensive, I could still buy a premium laptop in the US and find it cheap. So, there are no real budget constrains here, but I wouldn't like to spend more than what I've spent before (a maximum of US$ 2,500 perhaps, but preferably much less than that). Some of the laptops that could possibly meet my needs are as follows:

15-inch MacBook Pro with a retina display: A gorgeous machine. It has everything I would possibly want on a laptop. The IPS screen with a 2880x1800 resolution is what really pushes me towards this one. And a fast processor and SSD. But it is expensive. And it runs OS X and I would have to buy a separate license for using Windows. In addition, it still weighs 2kg and I found the keyboard to be not so good and not having as much key travel as the one found in the previous MacBook Pro models, but I did not have the time to test it through.

Sony Vaio Z: Looks like a great laptop. Very small and thin, but it still has a fast processor and an SSD. Full HD screen. But I felt the keyboard was not so nice, as I would expect in sucn an expensive laptop. In addition, I heard about build and heating issues. Can somebody confirm it? How is the battery? Sony announces the laptop as having an 8-hour battery life, but I've read several complaints about it.

Sony Vaio S: Nice laptop, there are two models, the 13" and the 15". I would prefer the screen resolution of the 15-inch, but the 13-inch is lighter. I am not sure if I like the keyboard, though. In addition, they both come with an HD and I will have to replace it with an SSD: is it easy to do?

Asus Zenbook Prime: thin and light, and with an IPS 1920x1080 screen. And SSD (I would prefer it over the models with a hybrid drive). Looks good. A low-voltage processor might be fine, but I am not sure if it is fast enough. My sister has a first generation Zenbook, but I feel the keyboard and the trackpad are both bad. I read things got better in the second generation (I haven't seen one yet), but that there were still issues with ergonomics.

I didn't have the opportunity to test any more models which would fit my needs. I would like to test the Lenovo X1 Carbon, for instance, but I can't find one around here. Almost all laptops are low-end with Sandy Bridge i5 processors, slow HDs, dreadful keyboards and 1366x768 screens.

Would you recommend me to take a look at something else?
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
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I'd probably recommend the Sony Vaio S 15.5" of those listed. It weighs less than standard 15" notebooks while offering a good 1080p display. It also offers the quad i7. The SSD is also very easy to replace.

The MBPr is too expensive for what you're getting. And it also sounds like there's some programs tying you to windows, so you're better off crossing that MacBook off the list.

Remember that the smaller the laptop the worse the keyboard. It's just physically impossible to fit a good keyboard in a very small size, and if the laptop is thin then expect it to get even worse. An exception might be the Lenovo ThinkPads, but they don't offer the resolution you're looking for and the diagonal screen size is too small at 12.5"

How important is size and weight to you? If it's going to be used as a stationary desktop replacement with occasional mobility, the weight shouldn't be that big of an issue. It does seem to like you'd need a quad core 8-thread processor.
 

crab0

Member
Jun 7, 2012
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I'm partial to the rMBP but the Vaio S (15 inch) sounds like much better value for you if you swap the hard drive with an aftermarket SSD.

The new zenbook keyboards are much better then the first gen but the trackpad is still not good and it sounds like you probably need more than a ULV CPU.
 

skaertus

Senior member
Mar 20, 2010
218
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91
Thank you for your feedback so far. I am having a real hard time trying to decide. As you may notice, it's been less than two years that I got my last laptop and I don't want to make the wrong decision once again...

I'd probably recommend the Sony Vaio S 15.5" of those listed. It weighs less than standard 15" notebooks while offering a good 1080p display. It also offers the quad i7. The SSD is also very easy to replace.

Thank you. I was wondering whether it is easy to replace the SSD in the Sony Vaios. Apparently, it is.

The MBPr is too expensive for what you're getting. And it also sounds like there's some programs tying you to windows, so you're better off crossing that MacBook off the list.

Yes, the retina MacBook Pro is a very expensive piece of hardware, but it's also supposed to be good. I could buy one and use Bootcamp or Parallels to run Windows.

There is in fact software tying me to Windows. I could replace them for Mac software, but I don't know if it would be worth it. There is no feature or killer app in the Mac environment that I don't have in the Windows ecosystem. The Windows solutions just seem to be better somehow.

Don't get me wrong. OS X is great. The window management system with Mission Control and Spaces, and with those multi-touch gestures in the trackpad, is ingenious, and works beautifully. Leaves me drooling every time I look at it.

It would be the perfect solution for me if I would just navigate the Internet, check e-mails and edit photos and videos. But the fact is, the main piece of software that I run is Microsoft Office. And Microsoft Office 2010 for Windows is, well, far better than Microsoft Office 2011 for Mac. I could use iWork and the many good word processors available to the Mac (Mellel, Nisus Writer Pro, etc.). But then I have to share documents with other people or open them in Windows machines.

And then there are the other software. OCR is better on Windows than on Mac. And while there are good Mac-only reference management software, I found Zotero to be more polished then all of them; and I could easily install Zotero on Windows, but I couldn't handle to install the Word plug-in in the Mac version.

All things considered, it is very convenient to use Windows. Programs which are written for Windows just behave badly on the Mac. I could change to Mac OS if somebody gave me a compelling reason to do so. But, as good as OS X is, I can live without it. But - perhaps unfortunately - I can't live without Microsoft Windows.

Remember that the smaller the laptop the worse the keyboard. It's just physically impossible to fit a good keyboard in a very small size, and if the laptop is thin then expect it to get even worse. An exception might be the Lenovo ThinkPads, but they don't offer the resolution you're looking for and the diagonal screen size is too small at 12.5"

How important is size and weight to you? If it's going to be used as a stationary desktop replacement with occasional mobility, the weight shouldn't be that big of an issue. It does seem to like you'd need a quad core 8-thread processor.

Just as I suspected! As much as I would like a thin laptop, there are limits. I don't really need the thinnest or lightest laptop in the world. I just need one that is not too heavy to carry around. The thinner and lighter, the better, as long as it doesn't mean that I have to give up something important. The iPad, for instance, is very thin and light, but at a price - no keyboard at all! If the size and weight starts to interfere with the comfort of the keyboard or the speed of the processor, than there should be limits to it. I know that there are trade-offs, but I think I should look for a balance here.

I would love to have a very thin and light desktop replacement. That would be in an ideal world. I work every day until late hours, and I have little time to use my desktop at home. I do almost everything on my laptop. But I also have to carry the laptop around with me. My current laptop weighs 5.73 lbs (2.6kg) and the A/C power adapter adds about 0.6kg to it (1.3 lbs). 3.2kg total. I need to carry the A/C adapter because battery life is not good and I always like to use the laptop at full settings. I felt that when I carried the MacBook with me it was much lighter. And the MacBook is no so much lighter than the Sager - it weighs 2.3kg, and the A/C adapter weighs 0.4kg (2.7kg total).

So, while I need a thin and light laptop, it doesn't have to be an ultrabook. If it happens to be as thin and light as an ultrabook, the better. But I could handle something heavier. I would have no problem carrying around a laptop weighing up to 2kg, as long as the A/C adapter is not a heavy brick.

As for the processor, I think a quad-core processor would be nice, but a higher-end dual-core could also do it. Perhaps I get some additional battery life if I choose a dual-core over a quad-core. I don't need a dedicated video card, though. I won't play games on it.
 

skaertus

Senior member
Mar 20, 2010
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I'm partial to the rMBP but the Vaio S (15 inch) sounds like much better value for you if you swap the hard drive with an aftermarket SSD.

That's the idea!

Does anybody have any real world experience with the Vaio S? Is it a good laptop? Does it have issues? There are those sort of things that you only find out after you have one of these...

The new zenbook keyboards are much better then the first gen but the trackpad is still not good and it sounds like you probably need more than a ULV CPU.

Thank you. I was thinking of getting an ultrabook, but I'm sort of a power user and the processor speed may really upset me. I've read complaints about the trackpad too...

Is there any laptop which I didn't put in the list that I should consider?
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
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How much battery life are you looking for?

I definitely wouldn't buy an Ultrabook. The ULV processor just doesn't seem to be enough for you.

The issue you're going to have is that finding a high resolution laptop with a quad core pretty much means you're going to have one that is close to 5lbs. Whichever way you slice it, you're going to be in that ~5lbs area. If you're willing to drop down in resolution then you can get a lighter laptop. But with heavy multitasking and the need for a lot of work space, it's impossible to find the perfect one.

What you want is something that's light, has a high resolution quality display, good battery life, great keyboard/trackpad and better than ULV processing power. Unfortunately those just don't exist yet :p I think the best you can do is the Sony Vaio S with the i7 3612QM.
 

skaertus

Senior member
Mar 20, 2010
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How much battery life are you looking for?

I would like at least 4 or 5 hours of battery life. But real world battery life. The Sager that I bought supposedly had 5-hour battery life. I don't have to tell you that I would be happy if I can squeeze 2 or 3 hours out of it.

If I could just go out and leave the A/C adapter home, it would be great. But I guess I would not be able to do so in any case.

I definitely wouldn't buy an Ultrabook. The ULV processor just doesn't seem to be enough for you.

Yes, that's what I'm thinking either.

But, again, on processors... I guess the real bottleneck of my machines is the HD. There are ages that I don't use a standard current-generation dual-core processor. Wouldn't that be fast enough for immediate responses under Windows 7/8?

The issue you're going to have is that finding a high resolution laptop with a quad core pretty much means you're going to have one that is close to 5lbs. Whichever way you slice it, you're going to be in that ~5lbs area. If you're willing to drop down in resolution then you can get a lighter laptop. But with heavy multitasking and the need for a lot of work space, it's impossible to find the perfect one.

What you want is something that's light, has a high resolution quality display, good battery life, great keyboard/trackpad and better than ULV processing power. Unfortunately those just don't exist yet :p I think the best you can do is the Sony Vaio S with the i7 3612QM.

I know that there will be trade-offs and that the ideal machine belongs to the ideal world. That's why I'm thinking of something more balanced, in-between maybe.

I already have a high-end machine, and it is heavy and lacks polish, but it is still very powerful. There's no point in buying another similar machine, so I have two of them... in that case I could wait for Haswell to see what it brings.

The Sony Vaio S looks nice, and it weighs considerably less than the Sager (4.4 lbs against 5.7 lbs, nearly 25% less weight). Does anybody have any idea if the A/C adapter is a heavy brick such as the one with the Sager? And how's battery life?
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
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But, again, on processors... I guess the real bottleneck of my machines is the HD. There are ages that I don't use a standard current-generation dual-core processor. Wouldn't that be fast enough for immediate responses under Windows 7/8?

You're still limited to 4 threads and ULVs suffer from clock-throttling due to TDP thresholds. The performance isn't that of an equivalently clocked 35W processor, never mind a higher clocked one with 4 straight cores and 8 threads. The HDD is going to be your bottleneck, but if you're heavily multitasking then the CPU and RAM also play an important role. Keep in mind a lot of Ultrabooks also have soldered RAM and limit to 4GB and 6GB. That's a major turnoff. You're going to be putting in an SSD regardless of what you buy, so the HDD problem is a non-factor.

5-6 hours of battery life on the Sony Vaio. There's also the sheet battery that adds a lot of battery life as well, but at the cost of weight.

I don't do quite as much on my ThinkPad X220 as far as multitasking goes, but I bought it because it's only 3.5lbs, gives me 10-11 hours of battery life and has a great IPS screen. It's something with enough power to get the work done but not a desktop replacement. What you want is something that weighs that much, offers a better trackpad, an equivalent keyboard but at 15" with a 1080p display. I really think the Sony Vaio S is about the closest you can get.
 

skaertus

Senior member
Mar 20, 2010
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You're still limited to 4 threads and ULVs suffer from clock-throttling due to TDP thresholds. The performance isn't that of an equivalently clocked 35W processor, never mind a higher clocked one with 4 straight cores and 8 threads. The HDD is going to be your bottleneck, but if you're heavily multitasking then the CPU and RAM also play an important role. Keep in mind a lot of Ultrabooks also have soldered RAM and limit to 4GB and 6GB. That's a major turnoff. You're going to be putting in an SSD regardless of what you buy, so the HDD problem is a non-factor.

I don't have the intention of adding memory to the laptop. A laptop usually needs more RAM when it is already outdated; I would also have to replace the battery and, still, the processor would not be cutting-edge anymore. Then I will replace the laptop with another one instead of upgrading it. I only want to replace the HD for an SSD this time...

5-6 hours of battery life on the Sony Vaio. There's also the sheet battery that adds a lot of battery life as well, but at the cost of weight.

5 to 6 hours of REAL battery life would do. My concern is that it won't pass 3 to 4 hours in real world conditions...

I don't do quite as much on my ThinkPad X220 as far as multitasking goes, but I bought it because it's only 3.5lbs, gives me 10-11 hours of battery life and has a great IPS screen. It's something with enough power to get the work done but not a desktop replacement. What you want is something that weighs that much, offers a better trackpad, an equivalent keyboard but at 15" with a 1080p display. I really think the Sony Vaio S is about the closest you can get.

That would be ideal. But your ThinkPad looks good. Does it really give you 10-11 hours of battery life? Under which conditions? The keyboard should be terrific, but how is the trackpad?

Does anybody here has any real world experience with the Sony Vaio S? Is it worth it?
 

IntelUser2000

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Oct 14, 2003
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The trackpad issue in Windows is an OS-specific problem. I've read reports where people say going to Windows 8 improves this. Of course, there are bad trackpads too, just saying that you'll get into OS limits no matter how good it is on the hardware/drivers.
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
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That would be ideal. But your ThinkPad looks good. Does it really give you 10-11 hours of battery life? Under which conditions? The keyboard should be terrific, but how is the trackpad?

The trackpad is small, but it's also a small laptop. You do get the ThinkPad ThinkStick (or as they call it, the pointing stick) which is a little nub can be used as a mouse. I find it to be more accurate than a trackpad, but some people don't like it. I'd say try it out. If you find that you like it, it can replace a trackpad in use entirely.

I get 11 hours of actual battery life in Linux. In windows I might even get a bit more. I have Pandora running all 11 hours, 3-4 tabs open with a PDF file or two.

The trackpad issue in Windows is an OS-specific problem. I've read reports where people say going to Windows 8 improves this. Of course, there are bad trackpads too, just saying that you'll get into OS limits no matter how good it is on the hardware/drivers.

Yea, that's pretty much the issue. Windows has poor trackpad support built in, thus even the most amazing trackpad will pale in comparison to Apple's. There are some notoriously poor trackpads due to just bad firmware, but even if they were perfect they'd still lag behind Apple.
 

skaertus

Senior member
Mar 20, 2010
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The trackpad is small, but it's also a small laptop. You do get the ThinkPad ThinkStick (or as they call it, the pointing stick) which is a little nub can be used as a mouse. I find it to be more accurate than a trackpad, but some people don't like it. I'd say try it out. If you find that you like it, it can replace a trackpad in use entirely.

I keep reading everywhere that the ThinkPad keyboard is the best in all laptops. Is that really so? Is the keyboard on your ThinkPad full size despite the size of the screen? I've also heard that the keyboard of the ThinkPad is better than the ones in the IdeaPads. I could never test it, because I just can't find ThinkPads fore sale here in Brazil.

Does the 1366x768 screen resolution bothers you?

I get 11 hours of actual battery life in Linux. In windows I might even get a bit more. I have Pandora running all 11 hours, 3-4 tabs open with a PDF file or two.

11 hours of battery life is great. Really impressive. Under which conditions? Do you have to reduce brightness, economy mode, etc?

Yea, that's pretty much the issue. Windows has poor trackpad support built in, thus even the most amazing trackpad will pale in comparison to Apple's. There are some notoriously poor trackpads due to just bad firmware, but even if they were perfect they'd still lag behind Apple.

Yes, it does, but even so some trackpads are better than the others. And Windows 8 will have a better support for multi-touch trackpads.
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
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I keep reading everywhere that the ThinkPad keyboard is the best in all laptops. Is that really so? Is the keyboard on your ThinkPad full size despite the size of the screen? I've also heard that the keyboard of the ThinkPad is better than the ones in the IdeaPads. I could never test it, because I just can't find ThinkPads fore sale here in Brazil.

Does the 1366x768 screen resolution bothers you?

The ThinkPad keyboards are by far the best in the industry. Even the newer island style keyboards are still miles ahead of anyone else. The small size, 12.5", doesn't make a difference. The keyboard stretches from end to end of the laptop. In fact, the side bezels of the screen are thicker than the bezel on either side of the keyboard. There's no flex whatsoever. The keys are as big as the keys on my home keyboard. The spacing is also just as great. The feedback is fantastic as well. Lenovo really knows how to make a keyboard and the ThinkPads offer the best of any laptop. The trackpad on the other hand is very small. Gesture support is meh, but I use the trackpoint anyway. IMO, the trackpoint is more accurate than any trackpad I've ever used, Apple's included. Where the trackpad lacks is in gesture support. But because I'm using Ubuntu's HUD, I just type in what I need to do.

Right now the battery reads 10 hours. I've got Pandora up, headphones plugged in, brightness at 20%. The brightness might seem low, but it's an IPS display with ~300nits in brightness, so a 20% on this laptop is equivalent to ~40% on an average laptop. It's plenty bright. I've also got 3 other tabs open. Chrome(ium) has flash installed and adblock running. With your usage, I'd guess you'd get around 8-9 hours of actual run time.

If you don't mind carrying around 5lbs, you should look into a T430 with a 9-cell battery.

The resolution doesn't bother me one bit. In fact, I prefer it. At 12.5" with 1366x768, if the resolution were any higher I'd have issues reading text. Win7 isn't great about how it handles DPI scaling, so you'll inevitably run into some issues, particularly in browsers, where text and website images don't respond accordingly. Though Microsoft claims that they've fixed much of this in Win8, TechReport did a recent article where it shows the same problems still persist.

So, no, I wouldn't consider the 1366x768 resolution limiting. I can flip between applications very easily. If you're running something that could benefit from the extra real estate, you're likely going to need a bigger display anyway. Though the Zenbook has 1080p at 13.3", there's just no way in hell anyone can run that resolution as such a small screen and benefit from all of the real estate in a variety of applications. Ultimately, something will have to give and it's probably going to be your eyesight.
 
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skaertus

Senior member
Mar 20, 2010
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The ThinkPad keyboards are by far the best in the industry. Even the newer island style keyboards are still miles ahead of anyone else. The small size, 12.5", doesn't make a difference. The keyboard stretches from end to end of the laptop. In fact, the side bezels of the screen are thicker than the bezel on either side of the keyboard. There's no flex whatsoever. The keys are as big as the keys on my home keyboard. The spacing is also just as great. The feedback is fantastic as well. Lenovo really knows how to make a keyboard and the ThinkPads offer the best of any laptop. The trackpad on the other hand is very small. Gesture support is meh, but I use the trackpoint anyway. IMO, the trackpoint is more accurate than any trackpad I've ever used, Apple's included. Where the trackpad lacks is in gesture support. But because I'm using Ubuntu's HUD, I just type in what I need to do.

I am really starting to look more closely on the ThinkPad.

I've used ThinkPads from the firm I work to in the past. They did not get too much of my interest in the beginning, as they feel the prototype of a bland business laptop. At the time, I didn't notice that the keyboard was so good; there were not too many chicket-style keyboards at the time and I felt they were all the same. The trackpoint, however, caught my interest, as I thought it awkward to use. I might get used to it, though.

I guess business laptops in general have better laptops. I used a Dell Vostro some days ago and the keyboard felt good. I think the ThinkPad should be even better.

Another thing that I should be looking into is build quality and sturdiness. My MacBook once had its screen cracked after a fall (and it took me US$ 500 to get it fixed!). The Sager is heavier, so it falls even harder; once, after a fall, it wouldn't read the HD, which was disconnected somehow; another time, I had a similar problem with the screen. Not big problems, but I had to take the laptop to the support in both occasions.

I guess I wouldn't have these problems with a ThinkPad, as it feels very solid. How resistant is it to a fall?

Right now the battery reads 10 hours. I've got Pandora up, headphones plugged in, brightness at 20%. The brightness might seem low, but it's an IPS display with ~300nits in brightness, so a 20% on this laptop is equivalent to ~40% on an average laptop. It's plenty bright. I've also got 3 other tabs open. Chrome(ium) has flash installed and adblock running. With your usage, I'd guess you'd get around 8-9 hours of actual run time.

That is great. I guess there aren't many laptops with such a battery life, huh?

If you don't mind carrying around 5lbs, you should look into a T430 with a 9-cell battery.

Is the battery of the T430 even better?

Lenovo offers three models of this series here in Brazil to sell at their website: the T420 (US$ 1,350), the T430 (US$ 1,600) and the T430s (US$ 3,000 and up). The T420 should be the previous version, I guess. The T430s seems to be lighter than the T430. Although much more expensive, the T430s has a higher resolution (1600x900; the T430 is 1366x768, which I find pretty disappointing for a 14" laptop), SSD and is lighter (1.7kg - sorry, but I'm not used to lbs, but it's not much more than the X220...). Is the keyboard the same in all models?

We have the X220 for sale here, but I guess it's the base model, with only 2 GB RAM, and it doesn't come with an IPS screen, and it runs for US$ 1,700. Lenovo takes 30 days to deliver it to the customers.

The resolution doesn't bother me one bit. In fact, I prefer it. At 12.5" with 1366x768, if the resolution were any higher I'd have issues reading text. Win7 isn't great about how it handles DPI scaling, so you'll inevitably run into some issues, particularly in browsers, where text and website images don't respond accordingly. Though Microsoft claims that they've fixed much of this in Win8, TechReport did a recent article where it shows the same problems still persist.

So, no, I wouldn't consider the 1366x768 resolution limiting. I can flip between applications very easily. If you're running something that could benefit from the extra real estate, you're likely going to need a bigger display anyway. Though the Zenbook has 1080p at 13.3", there's just no way in hell anyone can run that resolution as such a small screen and benefit from all of the real estate in a variety of applications. Ultimately, something will have to give and it's probably going to be your eyesight.

Do you feel that the 12.5" screen is too small? I know it's great to have a laptop which is so light, but do you feel comfortable using it for the whole day?
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
3,510
6
0
I guess I wouldn't have these problems with a ThinkPad, as it feels very solid. How resistant is it to a fall?

It's got a magnesium roll cage. Only the top of the keyboard and the handrest are made of plastic, though behind the keyboard there's a metal sheet to make it even more sturdy. It's also spill resistant :p

They are very resistant to falls, bumps and scratches. The build quality is really very good. I've taken it apart a few times already to tinker with it and you can tell it's very well built. It might look like cheap black plastic, but it's actually a rubber coating on top of the magnesium cage that encases the entire laptop. Some models also feature carbon fiber reinforcement, like the Thinkpad X1 Carbon.

Another bonus is that the parts are very easily replaceable and cheap to come by. You can remove the keyboard entirely and replace it for ~$50. Same goes for the trackpad. The inner components are easy to get to.

Is the battery of the T430 even better?

No. It has a larger display, 14", so the battery life won't be as good. It does have a 1600x900 resolution option, but it is a TN panel.

Lenovo offers three models of this series here in Brazil to sell at their website: the T420 (US$ 1,350), the T430 (US$ 1,600) and the T430s (US$ 3,000 and up). The T420 should be the previous version, I guess. The T430s seems to be lighter than the T430. Although much more expensive, the T430s has a higher resolution (1600x900; the T430 is 1366x768, which I find pretty disappointing for a 14" laptop), SSD and is lighter (1.7kg - sorry, but I'm not used to lbs, but it's not much more than the X220...). Is the keyboard the same in all models?

All of the Thinkpad keyboards are essentially the same. They're all great, regardless of which model you choose.

When buying Lenovo, always register to the Barnes & Noble Lenovo page. They email you some great deals frequently. Just over the weekend, you could have configured an X230 with an IPS, 9-cell battery, i7 processor and backlit keyboard for ~$900. As a general rule of thumb, don't buy Thinkpads from retailers, only directly from Lenovo or from Ebay. Because Lenovo limits the shipments of Thinkpads to retailers, the prices are always sky high.

Their refurb store is also very good. It's based here in South Carolina and most of their refurbs not labeled "Scratch & dent" are essentially brand new.

Do you feel that the 12.5" screen is too small? I know it's great to have a laptop which is so light, but do you feel comfortable using it for the whole day?

I use it for 8-10 hours a day with no issues. The screen is 12.5" but at 1366x768 resolution, reading text doesn't strain my eyes. The keyboard is the best of any laptop on the planet and the screen is a pleasure to keep my eyes glared to. If it were possible, I'd replace my desktop with this X220 if the Ultrabase Lenovo offers had an external GPU option for occasional gaming.

The drawbacks that I've encountered are the following:

- poor trackpad. It's tiny and the gesture support is weak and sporadic. If you're a trackpad guy, you're going to have issues. If you favor the trackpoint, you won't ever notice.

- Slight flex on the left palm rest where the expresscard goes. Not something you'll notice unless you're looking for it. You can fill it with a spacer if it bothers you.

- The HDD bay is hot swap, meaning it's easy to take it out and replace it. It is 7", so that limits you as far as what you can put in it. Max is 1TB 5400RPM or 500GB 7200RPM. Personally, I just pulled it out and replaced it with an mSATA. This decreased my weight as well.

- The charger cable is long... very long. The good thing is because of the ~11-10 hours of battery life, I don't ever have to carry it with me and just charge the laptop overnight so it stays at home.

- Slight flex beneath the ThinkVantage button. It's also the only place on the entire laptop that isn't reinforced by metal beneath it. Doesn't bother me, as I never used that button :p

- Some people hate the looks. It looks boring. I think it looks like a laptop Hasselhoff would have used in Night Rider, but people call it "boring."

If you're willing to forgive the drawbacks above, you'll absolutely love it. There's a reason why it receives a recommended buy year after year from nearly every site that reviews the laptop.
 
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skaertus

Senior member
Mar 20, 2010
218
28
91
It's got a magnesium roll cage. Only the top of the keyboard and the handrest are made of plastic, though behind the keyboard there's a metal sheet to make it even more sturdy. It's also spill resistant :p

They are very resistant to falls, bumps and scratches. The build quality is really very good. I've taken it apart a few times already to tinker with it and you can tell it's very well built. It might look like cheap black plastic, but it's actually a rubber coating on top of the magnesium cage that encases the entire laptop. Some models also feature carbon fiber reinforcement, like the Thinkpad X1 Carbon.

That would be welcome. I've seen a couple of Sony Vaios and, although I've read they are quite resistant, they don't feel very solid. The ThinkPad, on the other hand, looks like a tank.

Another bonus is that the parts are very easily replaceable and cheap to come by. You can remove the keyboard entirely and replace it for ~$50. Same goes for the trackpad. The inner components are easy to get to.

Well, that's in the US. Here in Brazil people will rip me off, if I ever find a Lenovo keyboard to replace the old one. I'm not really counting on that.

No. It has a larger display, 14", so the battery life won't be as good. It does have a 1600x900 resolution option, but it is a TN panel.

Yes, I've just read they do have about 7-8 hours of battery life. Less than the X series.

All of the Thinkpad keyboards are essentially the same. They're all great, regardless of which model you choose.

Thanks! I guess the keyboards on the IdeaPads are not so good, right?

When buying Lenovo, always register to the Barnes & Noble Lenovo page. They email you some great deals frequently. Just over the weekend, you could have configured an X230 with an IPS, 9-cell battery, i7 processor and backlit keyboard for ~$900. As a general rule of thumb, don't buy Thinkpads from retailers, only directly from Lenovo or from Ebay. Because Lenovo limits the shipments of Thinkpads to retailers, the prices are always sky high.

Well, I guess I won't have this choice. I'll spend just a week in US, and I guess I'll have to find something on the retailers.

I can't just buy the products in the US and get them to ship to Brazil. Some stores do, but it is just not worth it. B&H Photo Video ships to Brazil, but that costs a fortune. Take this X220, for instance (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._5UU_12_5.html) - the X230 is out of stock. It costs US$ 1,117.95. However, if I choose the option to ship to Brazil (Sao Paulo state, or any other state, it doesn't matter), I've have to pay an additional US$ 113.20 of shipping and US$ US$ 1,217.96 of taxes and duties. So, the final price would be US$ 2,449.11.

The same would happen with the T430 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...44_5PU_14.html). It costs US$ 1,256.00. But it's US$1,367.56 of duties and tax, plus US$ 131.80 shipping. The final price is a whooping US$ 2,755.36.

Tell me if this isn't discouraging. If I choose to ship to Iraq or East Timor, I won't pay so much taxes! And I will have to pay an additional 6% tax when I exchange my local currency to US dollars. So you may add 6% to these already outrageous prices...

Their refurb store is also very good. It's based here in South Carolina and most of their refurbs not labeled "Scratch & dent" are essentially brand new.

Sounds great. However, I won't be able to use it...

I use it for 8-10 hours a day with no issues. The screen is 12.5" but at 1366x768 resolution, reading text doesn't strain my eyes. The keyboard is the best of any laptop on the planet and the screen is a pleasure to keep my eyes glared to. If it were possible, I'd replace my desktop with this X220 if the Ultrabase Lenovo offers had an external GPU option for occasional gaming.

The drawbacks that I've encountered are the following:

- poor trackpad. It's tiny and the gesture support is weak and sporadic. If you're a trackpad guy, you're going to have issues. If you favor the trackpoint, you won't ever notice.

- Slight flex on the left palm rest where the expresscard goes. Not something you'll notice unless you're looking for it. You can fill it with a spacer if it bothers you.

- The HDD bay is hot swap, meaning it's easy to take it out and replace it. It is 7", so that limits you as far as what you can put in it. Max is 1TB 5400RPM or 500GB 7200RPM. Personally, I just pulled it out and replaced it with an mSATA. This decreased my weight as well.

- The charger cable is long... very long. The good thing is because of the ~11-10 hours of battery life, I don't ever have to carry it with me and just charge the laptop overnight so it stays at home.

- Slight flex beneath the ThinkVantage button. It's also the only place on the entire laptop that isn't reinforced by metal beneath it. Doesn't bother me, as I never used that button :p

- Some people hate the looks. It looks boring. I think it looks like a laptop Hasselhoff would have used in Night Rider, but people call it "boring."

If you're willing to forgive the drawbacks above, you'll absolutely love it. There's a reason why it receives a recommended buy year after year from nearly every site that reviews the laptop.

Thank you! That is very useful! Is the charger cable heavy? Can I replace the HD for an SSD?
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
3,510
6
0
The charger cable isn't too heavy. Standard size? It's 65W/60W I believe.

You can replace it with a 7mm SSD, yea.

If you're going to be staying there for a week or two, you can still order from their refurb and have it shipped. It took approximately a week to get my laptop. If you have any relatives in the US, that would be the best choice. I would definitely avoid buying a Thinkpad from a retail store, though.

And yea, it looks like and is built like a tank.

Here's a good review of the laptop. Just click the youtube link
http://www.mobiletechreview.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=43454

The X220 differs in that it doesn't use the island style keyboard and lacks a backlit keyboard option and uses Sandy Bridge rather than Ivy. All other aspects are the same
 
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skaertus

Senior member
Mar 20, 2010
218
28
91
The charger cable isn't too heavy. Standard size? It's 65W/60W I believe.

OK. Then it shouldn't be heavy.

You can replace it with a 7mm SSD, yea.

That's great. And I guess it's easy to do.

If you're going to be staying there for a week or two, you can still order from their refurb and have it shipped. It took approximately a week to get my laptop. If you have any relatives in the US, that would be the best choice. I would definitely avoid buying a Thinkpad from a retail store, though.

In fact, it'll be just a week. And I don't have any relatives in the US. But I'll take a look at the refurbs anyway.

And yea, it looks like and is built like a tank.

Here's a good review of the laptop. Just click the youtube link
http://www.mobiletechreview.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=43454

Thanks. Really helpful.

The X220 differs in that it doesn't use the island style keyboard and lacks a backlit keyboard option and uses Sandy Bridge rather than Ivy. All other aspects are the same

Which keyboard do you prefer? I've learned that this has caused some controversy.
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
3,510
6
0
Which keyboard do you prefer? I've learned that this has caused some controversy.

People who have been longtime buyers of Thinkpads -- way back from the IBM days -- usually prefer the X220/T420 style of keyboards. If you're used to island style keyboards, you won't notice a difference. If you've used older gen thinkpads, you'll probably prefer the older ones. In your case, it really doesn't matter.

Here's a review comparing it to the Sony Vaio S 13.3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMuA3Lj5ZVM&feature=related
 
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skaertus

Senior member
Mar 20, 2010
218
28
91
People who have been longtime buyers of Thinkpads -- way back from the IBM days -- usually prefer the X220/T420 style of keyboards. If you're used to island style keyboards, you won't notice a difference. If you've used older gen thinkpads, you'll probably prefer the older ones. In your case, it really doesn't matter.

Here's a review comparing it to the Sony Vaio S 13.3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMuA3Lj5ZVM&feature=related

Thank you. That was very helpful.

Do you have any heating issues with your ThinkPad?
 

skaertus

Senior member
Mar 20, 2010
218
28
91
I decided to resurrect this topic, as I have not yet bought a new laptop, and I will be in New York in June. Just to remember, I do have a 2008 white MacBook and a 2011 Sager NP5160. I would like a premium ultrabook or ultraportable which I could carry all day long, which provides a great user experience and which is blazing fast for office productivity and web browsing. A great screen (IPS, very bright and with a very high resolution), an SSD-only drive, good battery life, a thin and light body, good built quality, and a good keyboard/trackpad are my requirements. And I would like it to run Windows, not OS X.

I am not entirely happy with current laptop offerings, and I do not know whether Haswell laptops will be available in June (the processor will likely be released in June, but I do not know if any laptops carrying those processors will be immediately available by then).

My budget is pretty much unlimited, as top-notch laptops here in Brazil cost north of US$ 2,500-US$ 3,000. However, I would prefer something which is lower than US$ 2,000. But I could spend more than that if I feel it is worth it.

My options so far as are follows:

13-inch MacBook Pro with Retina Display
- Pros: great IPS screen with 16:10 format and very high resolution (2560x1600); standard voltage processor; good battery life; great build quality; good keyboard; best-in class trackpad.
- Cons: no touch-screen; poor drivers and lack of multi-touch trackpad for Windows; a little heavier than most ultrabooks.

13-inch Zenbook Prime UX31A Touch
- Pros: nice IPS touch screen with 1920x1080 resolution; thin and light; looks well built.
- Cons: keyboard has mixed reviews (I have not yet seen one in person, though); trackpad is said to have issues.

13-inch Lenovo Yoga
- Pros: IPS touch-screen; good keyboard, with a good layout and tactile feedback; looks well built; converts into a tablet.
- Cons: screen could have a better resolution (1600x900).

13-inch Samsung Series 9
- Pros: PLS matte screen; reasonable keyboard and trackpad; very thin and light; I read it has a good battery life.
- Cons: no touch screen; screen resolution on the low side (1600x900).

Dell XPS 12
- Pros: IPS touch-screen with 1920x1080 resolution; turns into a tablet.
- Cons: hinge looks fragile; trackpad is said to have issues; concerns about keyboard.

Dell XPS 13
- Pros: IPS screen with 1920x1080 resolution; looks well built.
- Cons: concerned about trackpad and keyboard quality; no touch-screen.

These are the options so far, and each of them have its own advantages and shortcomings. However, I have not yet tested all of them, and the ones I tested were on stores, and not on real life situations. Do you have any specific recommendation on any of them? Have I forgotten any?