I forgot to mention that the chip is a 3000+. I'll try the voltage tweaks and the bios flash tomorrow. I really appreicate all the help. You guys have been great.
There was no trauma or installation difficulty with the board, no screws or misplaced spacers. One thing worth mentioning. I did remove the CPU once and the lever release was more difficult then usual to move in it's final 1/4 inch of travel. The result was several SLIGHTLY bent perimeter pins on the lever side, which straightend nicely with no visible damage or residual deflection, even under manification. I checked it out very carefully. It's possible it may have trashed the CPU. I've never bent pins before and was flabbergasted when it happened. The CPU did drop easily into to the socket with the correct zero force, so there appear to be no damage. Any thoughts on this?
Well, I tried flashing the bios with both 1007 and 1008, I received errors at different percentages through the process and it never did finish. I took another run at different voltages, reseating the processor, different everything. That's it. I'm taking this thing out to the drive way and running over it with my Subaru, then smashing it with a sledgehammer and then throwing it in the trash. Thanks for all your help. I'm out.
It shouldn't matter in the RMA process if a board and processor are pulverized, should it? Happy Thanksgiving to all.
It shouldn't matter in the RMA process if a board and processor are pulverized, should it? Happy Thanksgiving to all.
The A8V is a good board. If at all possible, try to run that CPU in another machine. The pin business that you described may be significant, but short of having the bench equipment to check it that AMD might have, trial and error with a known working PC is your only option for troubleshooting the processor.
Or, try to borrow a processor and run it on your board. Either way, you have two variables for which to control.
A remote possibility is that BOTH are defective. Not likely.
You didn't buy refurbs, did you? (Afterthought)
Or, try to borrow a processor and run it on your board. Either way, you have two variables for which to control.
A remote possibility is that BOTH are defective. Not likely.
You didn't buy refurbs, did you? (Afterthought)
Well guys, I decided to give it one more go. I downloaded Bios 1008, renamed it and did the Alt F2 thing. Lo and behold it worked! I hate it when it's that simple. Everything seems fine, except for a few minor problems loading XPPRO and a few issues with the 9200SE, nothing that difficult to solve. Anyway, perseverence and giving it one more shot always seems to pay off. Thanks all for your help. Now I'd like the two days back that I spend being stupid. Can anyone help me with that?
I'll be going over a couple of those odd ball anomolies in Operating Systems if anyone wants to chime in.
I'll be going over a couple of those odd ball anomolies in Operating Systems if anyone wants to chime in.
Did you change anything else? I'm not a believer in digital devices fixing themselves. Did you have anything out of the case and then put it back? Different slot for a card? PSU connected up in a different way?
I'm happy for you that it's running, but I, for one, would have something less than full confidence in the system unless I knew that I had done something to make it work of a sudden. Before you invest a lot of time installing apps and configuring, I recommend troubleshooting some more. Perhaps trying a flash to 1007. Also, run Memtest--all the tests, not just the default 7--in a loop for something like 24 hours.
Good luck!
I'm happy for you that it's running, but I, for one, would have something less than full confidence in the system unless I knew that I had done something to make it work of a sudden. Before you invest a lot of time installing apps and configuring, I recommend troubleshooting some more. Perhaps trying a flash to 1007. Also, run Memtest--all the tests, not just the default 7--in a loop for something like 24 hours.
Good luck!
The only difference was flashing the BIOS. So far all of the configuring has gone fine, except that the 9200SE won't work with the system. When I add the proprietary drivers it crashes the system and then sends it into a bizarre restart / standby / loop. I'll swap it for a different card today. While I'm at it I'll run Memtest and see if I come up with errors.
The 9200 remains a mystery. I tried another video card, also a 9200 and ran into the same problem. Crashes, random restarts, the loop thing. I also ran Memtest and it runs for 2 seconds and reboots the machine. Something still seems to be amiss. The OS seems to run fine except the generic drivers for windows give me no options to change the refresh rate or any major video tweeking. Any suggestions? I don't see any settings in the bios for AGP except voltage.
The Memtest failure is a sure sign of something not right. It smells like memory management, although there is a tie in with video in that the video card will use system RAM if its own VRAM buffers are full. The Graphics Aperture setting is where you tell the motherboard how much system ram to allot for the video card. Safe place to start is 64.
At this point, I wouldn't mess with the AGP voltage, since both cards you tried crashed out, you're not OC'ing, and not really trying anything that should be video-stressful.
Try this if you can get the machine running on generic video drivers: if you don't have CPUz, download it and run that. It will report what the SPD settings are for the installed RAM, and also what the actual settings for the RAM are as it is being controlled from the BIOS. Once you see what the actual settings are, report them here for consideration. You should then hard code those timings into the BIOS as a starting point. If the RAM itself is OK, and it doesn't seem like it is bad because you've tried different sticks, it looks more and more like the CPU is the culprit.
You tried a matched pair of Mushkin didn't you? That stuff is top of the line and is guarantteed to run at rated settings. If Memtest crashes on Mushkin, something's wrong and it's not likely the RAM. Memtest runs in memory.
I'd still like to see you swap out the CPU and try another 939 chip on the board you have.
At this point, I wouldn't mess with the AGP voltage, since both cards you tried crashed out, you're not OC'ing, and not really trying anything that should be video-stressful.
Try this if you can get the machine running on generic video drivers: if you don't have CPUz, download it and run that. It will report what the SPD settings are for the installed RAM, and also what the actual settings for the RAM are as it is being controlled from the BIOS. Once you see what the actual settings are, report them here for consideration. You should then hard code those timings into the BIOS as a starting point. If the RAM itself is OK, and it doesn't seem like it is bad because you've tried different sticks, it looks more and more like the CPU is the culprit.
You tried a matched pair of Mushkin didn't you? That stuff is top of the line and is guarantteed to run at rated settings. If Memtest crashes on Mushkin, something's wrong and it's not likely the RAM. Memtest runs in memory.
I'd still like to see you swap out the CPU and try another 939 chip on the board you have.
CPU-Z Report
CPU-Z version 1.21.
CPU(s)
Number of CPUs 1
Code Name NewCastle
Specification AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3000+
Family / Model / Stepping F F 0
Extended Family / Model F F
Brand ID 1
Package Socket 754
Technology 0.13 µ
Supported Instructions Sets MMX, Extended MMX, 3DNow!, Extended 3DNow!, SSE, SSE2, X86-64
CPU Clock Speed 1802.3 MHz
Clock multiplier x 9.0
HTT Bus Frequency 200.3 MHz
L1 Data Cache 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64 Bytes line size
L1 Instruction Cache 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64 Bytes line size
L2 Cache 512 KBytes, 16-way set associative, 64 Bytes line size
L2 Speed 1802.3 MHz (Full)
L2 Location On Chip
L2 Data Prefetch Logic yes
L2 Bus Width 128 bits
Mainboard and chipset
Motherboard manufacturer ASUSTeK Computer Inc.
Motherboard model A8V Deluxe, Rev 1.xx
BIOS vendor American Megatrends Inc.
BIOS revision 1008.003
BIOS release date 10/27/2004
Chipset VIA 282 rev. 0
Southbridge VIA VT8237 rev. 0
Sensor chip Winbond W83627THF
Memory
DRAM Type DDR-SDRAM
DRAM Size 512 MBytes
DRAM Frequency 200.3 MHz
FSB
RAM 1:1
CAS# Latency 2.5 clocks
RAS# to CAS# 3 clocks
RAS# Precharge 3 clocks
Cycle Time (TRAS) 8 clocks
Bank Cycle Time (TRC) 12 clocks
DRAM Idle Timer 16 clocks
# of memory modules 1
Module 0 DDR-SDRAM PC3200 - 512 MBytes
Software
Windows version Microsoft Windows XP Workstation Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Here's tthe report with 1 DRAM installed that I know works fine. Voltage is set at 2.6, timings are hard coded. Everything works fine except the card installation and Memtest which crashes immediately when initiated. One thing I should note is that the CPU runs very cold. Asus reports that the temps idle at around 26 and never exceeds 30 degrees C. It seems very low. I also tried the video card in another machine and it works fine. I'm stumped again. Any ideas?
CPU-Z version 1.21.
CPU(s)
Number of CPUs 1
Code Name NewCastle
Specification AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3000+
Family / Model / Stepping F F 0
Extended Family / Model F F
Brand ID 1
Package Socket 754
Technology 0.13 µ
Supported Instructions Sets MMX, Extended MMX, 3DNow!, Extended 3DNow!, SSE, SSE2, X86-64
CPU Clock Speed 1802.3 MHz
Clock multiplier x 9.0
HTT Bus Frequency 200.3 MHz
L1 Data Cache 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64 Bytes line size
L1 Instruction Cache 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64 Bytes line size
L2 Cache 512 KBytes, 16-way set associative, 64 Bytes line size
L2 Speed 1802.3 MHz (Full)
L2 Location On Chip
L2 Data Prefetch Logic yes
L2 Bus Width 128 bits
Mainboard and chipset
Motherboard manufacturer ASUSTeK Computer Inc.
Motherboard model A8V Deluxe, Rev 1.xx
BIOS vendor American Megatrends Inc.
BIOS revision 1008.003
BIOS release date 10/27/2004
Chipset VIA 282 rev. 0
Southbridge VIA VT8237 rev. 0
Sensor chip Winbond W83627THF
Memory
DRAM Type DDR-SDRAM
DRAM Size 512 MBytes
DRAM Frequency 200.3 MHz
FSB
RAM 1:1CAS# Latency 2.5 clocks
RAS# to CAS# 3 clocks
RAS# Precharge 3 clocks
Cycle Time (TRAS) 8 clocks
Bank Cycle Time (TRC) 12 clocks
DRAM Idle Timer 16 clocks
# of memory modules 1
Module 0 DDR-SDRAM PC3200 - 512 MBytes
Software
Windows version Microsoft Windows XP Workstation Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Here's tthe report with 1 DRAM installed that I know works fine. Voltage is set at 2.6, timings are hard coded. Everything works fine except the card installation and Memtest which crashes immediately when initiated. One thing I should note is that the CPU runs very cold. Asus reports that the temps idle at around 26 and never exceeds 30 degrees C. It seems very low. I also tried the video card in another machine and it works fine. I'm stumped again. Any ideas?
Also, I would love to try another 939, but of course I don't have any lying around. This is my first Athlon64 build, and hopefully not my last. I have tried out a few graphics applications, Autocad, Photoshop, that kind of thing and the chip is light years faster then my Xp2600 machines, it's just that the graphics thing has got me bamboozeled. The generic AGP driver does seem to work fine, but there are no options for refresh, etc.
I also want to add that these are pretty standard timings for these Mushkin modules. I've run them way faster then this without ever having a problem It's great stuff by the way, especially for the price.
I'm having a new 939 shipped. It sounds like it's something with the meomory controller. I can either wrestle with it for another week or just slap in a new processor (gently, of course) and see what happens. If it's not the processor, it's the board, but my money is on the CPU. I'm also trying another power supply. 1.475 volts for the 5 volt rail sounds a bit low. I'll keep you all posted. I still have the original CPU in the meantime if anyone else has any more suggestions, I'm game to try most anything.
I'm guessing that your CPU is misreported because you got an old version of CPUz. On the "About" tab there should be a link to the website. Click and get the current one. It's just been updated again.
Try 2.7 again on the RAM voltage just for kicks. Even though those are pretty relaxed timings on the memory that you have in there now, the board may benefit from a bit more juice. I have to run 2.7 on mine in order to get the rated timings with my RAM, 2225. I was having game crashes and Memtest failures, too. First, I set the RAM to 2325 and it worked OK after that. I wasn't satisfied, however, because I bought an expensive matched pair rated at 2225 and I wanted my money's worth!. So, I bumped to 2.7, I have the timings hard set, and everything works fine as spec'd.
Your setup, though, has something up with it beyond mere memory tweaking. I think you've done the right thing by starting with the CPU. The fact that you had bent pins, and it runs cold, you've got memory failures---you may have busted a trace on it somewhere.
Stay with it and keep reporting. This is too interesting to miss the conclusion now! I feel an investment in this saga right along with you. Best wishes.
Try 2.7 again on the RAM voltage just for kicks. Even though those are pretty relaxed timings on the memory that you have in there now, the board may benefit from a bit more juice. I have to run 2.7 on mine in order to get the rated timings with my RAM, 2225. I was having game crashes and Memtest failures, too. First, I set the RAM to 2325 and it worked OK after that. I wasn't satisfied, however, because I bought an expensive matched pair rated at 2225 and I wanted my money's worth!. So, I bumped to 2.7, I have the timings hard set, and everything works fine as spec'd.
Your setup, though, has something up with it beyond mere memory tweaking. I think you've done the right thing by starting with the CPU. The fact that you had bent pins, and it runs cold, you've got memory failures---you may have busted a trace on it somewhere.
Stay with it and keep reporting. This is too interesting to miss the conclusion now! I feel an investment in this saga right along with you. Best wishes.
Thanks Skoop. I tried messing with memory timings a bit.I bumped the voltage to 2.7 and 2.8. Now at restart I'm getting odd memory error messages. Memtest still loads, flashes for a second and restarts the machine. I'd say the onboard memory controller is probably a really good bet. I'm expecting the new processor on Nov. 30th. I'll post when I find out more.
Ever seen a processor run 2 degrees hotter then the temperature of the motherboard with air cooling? Low temperatures are usually not the kind of thing I complain about but this is just too wierd.
I also tried installing a couple of different ATI drivers but same crash and burn every time. Installing the windows driver for the 9200 gave me some immediate options but produced the same results on restart. System restore solved the problem temporarily. The machine seems to run reasonably well with the exception of video performance, but it's just kind of sitting off in a corner of my home network, waiting for a new processor transplant.
Ever seen a processor run 2 degrees hotter then the temperature of the motherboard with air cooling? Low temperatures are usually not the kind of thing I complain about but this is just too wierd.
I also tried installing a couple of different ATI drivers but same crash and burn every time. Installing the windows driver for the 9200 gave me some immediate options but produced the same results on restart. System restore solved the problem temporarily. The machine seems to run reasonably well with the exception of video performance, but it's just kind of sitting off in a corner of my home network, waiting for a new processor transplant.
Ever seen a processor run 2 degrees hotter then the temperature of the motherboard with air cooling?
Not unless a block of dry ice was sitting on it.
Not unless a block of dry ice was sitting on it.
The saga continues.
The new 939 pin 3000+ processor arrived this morning. In it goes. Boots fine, windows looks reasonably good for no installed video drivers. No errors, no messages,very solid.
I reboot the machine into Memtest. Instant crash, just as before, Load, crash, Load, crash.
I switch to a different DIMM, same result. (This is 2 different 512 Mushkin sticks in Blue slot 2)
I add another of the DIMMS to Blue slot 1. Viola, the machine boots perfectly into dual channel mode, into Memtest and perfect , no errors, for two hours.
I try switching the dimms to black slots 1and 2, run memtest, 4000-7000 errors on test 4, in one cycle.
I switch processors and get identical results with all tests.
Now the machine is booting fine with either processor into windows but I still can't load the ATI video drivers. I've tried 3 different 9200 cards with exactly the same results. Drivers load fine, Windows asks for a reboot and the machine goes into an odd loop where it blacks out, restarts, shows the desktop momentarily, tells me that windows is going on stand by and restarts again. System restore fixes the problem, restoring to any time before the drivers are installed. Installing drivers in safemode doesn't work either. I've tried all 4 versions of the ATI drivers, all installs yield the same result.
So, I'm concluding that the processor is fine. Everything seems to be the same with either processor installed. The original processor runs a little cooler then the new one, but not by much, only 3 or 4 degrees celsius. Both work fine under fairly intense load, at least for short periods of time.
The ram slot thing is odd. Memtest won't initiate with 1 chip in blue slot 2, but the machine will boot into Windows. With 2 sticks in the black slots Memtest produces massive errors, but will also boot. With 2 sticks in the blue slots, dual channel works fine and Memtest shows no errors. The machine boots fine.
So, the big roadblock now seems to be the ATI card. My next thing will be to try any non-ATI card, maybe an Nvidia and see if I can get another card installed. I've tried tons of tweaking, apature, voltages, power, you name it, but nothing works.
Any suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated.
The new 939 pin 3000+ processor arrived this morning. In it goes. Boots fine, windows looks reasonably good for no installed video drivers. No errors, no messages,very solid.
I reboot the machine into Memtest. Instant crash, just as before, Load, crash, Load, crash.
I switch to a different DIMM, same result. (This is 2 different 512 Mushkin sticks in Blue slot 2)
I add another of the DIMMS to Blue slot 1. Viola, the machine boots perfectly into dual channel mode, into Memtest and perfect , no errors, for two hours.
I try switching the dimms to black slots 1and 2, run memtest, 4000-7000 errors on test 4, in one cycle.
I switch processors and get identical results with all tests.
Now the machine is booting fine with either processor into windows but I still can't load the ATI video drivers. I've tried 3 different 9200 cards with exactly the same results. Drivers load fine, Windows asks for a reboot and the machine goes into an odd loop where it blacks out, restarts, shows the desktop momentarily, tells me that windows is going on stand by and restarts again. System restore fixes the problem, restoring to any time before the drivers are installed. Installing drivers in safemode doesn't work either. I've tried all 4 versions of the ATI drivers, all installs yield the same result.
So, I'm concluding that the processor is fine. Everything seems to be the same with either processor installed. The original processor runs a little cooler then the new one, but not by much, only 3 or 4 degrees celsius. Both work fine under fairly intense load, at least for short periods of time.
The ram slot thing is odd. Memtest won't initiate with 1 chip in blue slot 2, but the machine will boot into Windows. With 2 sticks in the black slots Memtest produces massive errors, but will also boot. With 2 sticks in the blue slots, dual channel works fine and Memtest shows no errors. The machine boots fine.
So, the big roadblock now seems to be the ATI card. My next thing will be to try any non-ATI card, maybe an Nvidia and see if I can get another card installed. I've tried tons of tweaking, apature, voltages, power, you name it, but nothing works.
Any suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated.
Dino, welcome back.
The memory behaviour in the black slots is expected. The board doesn't support dual channel for pairs except in the blue slots.
Except for anecdotal evidence that some boards/Bios combos don't play well with some video configurations, I am now at a loss. Your experience now adds further weight to this very anecdote.
I think it's clear, your video card is not compatible. --At least the drivers are not.
Get an Nvidia part.
Go back through this thread, though, and pick out the memory tweaks and optimizations. Do look at 2.7 volts on the RAM. I find that it adds great stability.
The bummer about this whole process for us is the tedium of the trial and error nature of it. At this point, I think that you have isolated nearly all of the variables for the sake of testing. I thought for sure that it was the CPU, because there are lots of users with ATI cards and no problems. It must just be the total combination of components that you have. Or some particular quirk with a chip or cap or something on your board. They can and do have their own personalities, it seems. C'est la vie.
The memory behaviour in the black slots is expected. The board doesn't support dual channel for pairs except in the blue slots.
Except for anecdotal evidence that some boards/Bios combos don't play well with some video configurations, I am now at a loss. Your experience now adds further weight to this very anecdote.
I think it's clear, your video card is not compatible. --At least the drivers are not.
Get an Nvidia part.
Go back through this thread, though, and pick out the memory tweaks and optimizations. Do look at 2.7 volts on the RAM. I find that it adds great stability.
The bummer about this whole process for us is the tedium of the trial and error nature of it. At this point, I think that you have isolated nearly all of the variables for the sake of testing. I thought for sure that it was the CPU, because there are lots of users with ATI cards and no problems. It must just be the total combination of components that you have. Or some particular quirk with a chip or cap or something on your board. They can and do have their own personalities, it seems. C'est la vie.
The ATI site does have a discussion of the same endless loop phenomenon that I am experiencing. It seems it is not terribly isolated. Of course that doesn't make it any less frustrating. The Nvidia card is arriving today. I'll post results later tonight. I'm looking forward to having this all behind me. The up-side is that I have learned a LOT from the experience through trial and error as well as research. Next time this will all be a piece of cake. Thanks to everyone, especially Scoop for advice and information. It's forums like this that make the internet such an indespensible resource.
A few final words. An Nvidia card arrived last night. I uninstalled the old ATI drivers and did a complete cleanout with Driver Cleaner and installed the new card. On the first round the same loop phenomenon occurred, which was eventually remedied by System Restore. The difference this time is that the new Nvidia drivers were still installed and the card was recognized. I downloaded and installed the latest drivers and utilities and the final result: Everything works. The card and drivers are fully installed. Memtest ran all night without a single error. Windows is stable and solid with no errors or strange messages. Everything looks great. The CPU is currently overclocked at 7% and running completely stable under load at 1936 mhz. Idle is in the low 30's, fully loaded in the low 40's.
I think I need a vacation. Thanks to everyone for their help. I'd still be scratching my head without the considerable help of this forum.
I think I need a vacation. Thanks to everyone for their help. I'd still be scratching my head without the considerable help of this forum.
Sweet jesus. Quite a saga there. I'd have given up and RMA'd that stuff a while back for convenience's sake, but there is something to be said for having a challenge to keep life interesting
Well done dino. Hope the rig kicks some butt for ya.
Well done dino. Hope the rig kicks some butt for ya.
i have an athlon 64 socket 939 purchased a couple of days a go along with an asus a8v deluxe wifi mb.
im having abit of trouble. First, the windows install would lock up, then 2. try it worked (xp).
Now, when its supposed to start windows, a bluescreen is flashed for 1/10 second and the system reboots.
tried upping the memory voltage, chaning the graphics card, different ram (socket 3)
any ideas?
sincerely
trond v
memory 3200 twinmos 512 meg
bios 8.00.09
3000 athlon 6 s939
a8v
im having abit of trouble. First, the windows install would lock up, then 2. try it worked (xp).
Now, when its supposed to start windows, a bluescreen is flashed for 1/10 second and the system reboots.
tried upping the memory voltage, chaning the graphics card, different ram (socket 3)
any ideas?
sincerely
trond v
memory 3200 twinmos 512 meg
bios 8.00.09
3000 athlon 6 s939
a8v
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