Well Hardware, I still think that there are better options than a Celeron 2.0GHz for your situation (like the Athlon XP 1600). But, in any case I will continue to trym to help you.
Honestly, with a fast HD, and enough RAM, yes (although AutoCAD will be significantly faster with an Athlon XP 1600). My 2 desktops are 900MHz (Celeron CuMine-128) and 1GHz (Morgan Duron). Both have 7200RPM Hard Drives, and while the Celeron 900 has only 128MB (and it could use 256, its running Win2K), the Duron has 256MB. Both systems are perfectly fast for typical office apps. AutoCAD will be faster with an Athlon XP 1600, but for typcial Office apps yes, P3 800's are fine. So, its up to you to decide whether inmproving AutoCAD performance via a CPU/Mobo upgrade is worth it. Honestly, depending on the Hard Drives and RAM in the P3 800 systems, you may get a decent boost just by getting each PC 256MB PC133 and a WD800JB.
Why is Matrox too old? It's clear you aren't interesting in gaming performance correct? Then I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with the G400/450/550. It will give you top notch 2D Performance/Quality (better than that of a GF4 Ti, or Radeon).
What kind of oboard features are you looking for? LAN? Audio? Honestly, if you are willing to go with 845PE and DDR333, I would lean towards either the Albatron PX845PEV PRO (with onboard Audio and LAN) which costs $93, supposed to be a very good fsb ocer (AT hit 667, which will be plenty for ocing of any P4 CPU). Another good board (although more expensive) would be the cheapest $125 version of the Asus P4PE with only On-Board LAN.
Well Hardware, I still think that there are better options than a Celeron 2.0GHz for your situation (like the Athlon XP 1600). But, in any case I will continue to trym to help you.
<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote
<HR>
is the piii-800 still good enough for working?
<HR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>Honestly, with a fast HD, and enough RAM, yes (although AutoCAD will be significantly faster with an Athlon XP 1600). My 2 desktops are 900MHz (Celeron CuMine-128) and 1GHz (Morgan Duron). Both have 7200RPM Hard Drives, and while the Celeron 900 has only 128MB (and it could use 256, its running Win2K), the Duron has 256MB. Both systems are perfectly fast for typical office apps. AutoCAD will be faster with an Athlon XP 1600, but for typcial Office apps yes, P3 800's are fine. So, its up to you to decide whether inmproving AutoCAD performance via a CPU/Mobo upgrade is worth it. Honestly, depending on the Hard Drives and RAM in the P3 800 systems, you may get a decent boost just by getting each PC 256MB PC133 and a WD800JB.
<BLOCKQUOTE>well only one pc is pii-800 most are cel300 to c600
Quote
<HR>
Radeon 9000 is out of question is 2D was crap (its now in my server) Matrox is too old Nvidia has stellar drivers so maybe TI-4200 for all
<HR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>Why is Matrox too old? It's clear you aren't interesting in gaming performance correct? Then I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with the G400/450/550. It will give you top notch 2D Performance/Quality (better than that of a GF4 Ti, or Radeon).
matrox is on the way to going out of business so I think I should spend the money on nvidia/ati
gf4 with dual 400 ramdac has crisp 2d too
<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote
<HR>
Which MB are good?
<HR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>What kind of oboard features are you looking for? LAN?
we use 3com cards (because of a nic based software will use the onboard lan later when we dont use the nic software anymore)
Audio? not needed
Honestly, if you are willing to go with 845PE and DDR333, I would lean towards either the Albatron PX845PEV PRO (with onboard Audio and LAN) which costs $93, supposed to be a very good fsb ocer (<a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=1723&p=7" target=new><FONT face=Tahoma color=#000080>AT hit 667</FONT></A>, which will be plenty for ocing of any P4 CPU). Another good board (although more expensive) would be the cheapest $125 version of the Asus P4PE with only On-Board LAN.
<B>
I can only buy shuttle , gigabyte and msi here
for future use it should support ht and oc
</B>
<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote
<HR>
is the piii-800 still good enough for working?
<HR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>Honestly, with a fast HD, and enough RAM, yes (although AutoCAD will be significantly faster with an Athlon XP 1600). My 2 desktops are 900MHz (Celeron CuMine-128) and 1GHz (Morgan Duron). Both have 7200RPM Hard Drives, and while the Celeron 900 has only 128MB (and it could use 256, its running Win2K), the Duron has 256MB. Both systems are perfectly fast for typical office apps. AutoCAD will be faster with an Athlon XP 1600, but for typcial Office apps yes, P3 800's are fine. So, its up to you to decide whether inmproving AutoCAD performance via a CPU/Mobo upgrade is worth it. Honestly, depending on the Hard Drives and RAM in the P3 800 systems, you may get a decent boost just by getting each PC 256MB PC133 and a WD800JB.
<BLOCKQUOTE>well only one pc is pii-800 most are cel300 to c600
Quote
<HR>
Radeon 9000 is out of question is 2D was crap (its now in my server) Matrox is too old Nvidia has stellar drivers so maybe TI-4200 for all
<HR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>Why is Matrox too old? It's clear you aren't interesting in gaming performance correct? Then I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with the G400/450/550. It will give you top notch 2D Performance/Quality (better than that of a GF4 Ti, or Radeon).
matrox is on the way to going out of business so I think I should spend the money on nvidia/ati
gf4 with dual 400 ramdac has crisp 2d too
<BLOCKQUOTE>Quote
<HR>
Which MB are good?
<HR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>What kind of oboard features are you looking for? LAN?
we use 3com cards (because of a nic based software will use the onboard lan later when we dont use the nic software anymore)
Audio? not needed
Honestly, if you are willing to go with 845PE and DDR333, I would lean towards either the Albatron PX845PEV PRO (with onboard Audio and LAN) which costs $93, supposed to be a very good fsb ocer (<a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=1723&p=7" target=new><FONT face=Tahoma color=#000080>AT hit 667</FONT></A>, which will be plenty for ocing of any P4 CPU). Another good board (although more expensive) would be the cheapest $125 version of the Asus P4PE with only On-Board LAN.
<B>
I can only buy shuttle , gigabyte and msi here
for future use it should support ht and oc
</B>
Ok, I take it some of these (possibly all???) are on Slotket's???
Well, I honestly am not exactly greatly knowledgable in how GF4 vs G400/450/550 would be for you, but I see no reason not to go Matrox. I really doubt Matrox will be going out of business. They produce video chips (IIRC) that are used in environments outside the PC Market so even if they are very non-competitive in the PC market, they will still live on I think. So I'd still say go Matrox.
OK Thanks
but you would still appreciate Onboard LAN right?
Ok. Well that certainly limits your selection. Any 845PE/GE will support Hyper Threading. I would suggest that you read Anandtech's 3-way 845PE Roundup, including the Gigabyte 8PE667 Ultra and MSi 845PE MAX-FIR Review. Honestly, I'd lean towards Gigabyte's because it is the better overclocker. The cheaper version of the 8PE667 costs around $100.
Originally posted by: Athlon4all
Ok, I take it some of these (possibly all???) are on Slotket's???
yes cel 600 and piii 800 are on a slotket
Well, I honestly am not exactly greatly knowledgable in how GF4 vs G400/450/550 would be for you, but I see no reason not to go Matrox. I really doubt Matrox will be going out of business. They produce video chips (IIRC) that are used in environments outside the PC Market so even if they are very non-competitive in the PC market, they will still live on I think. So I'd still say go Matrox.
I have some G400 at work but I want to go to a nvidia or ati base and with nvidia driver topnotch I think nvidia is the way to go
OK ThanksOk. Well that certainly limits your selection. Any 845PE/GE will support Hyper Threading. I would suggest that you read Anandtech's 3-way 845PE Roundup, including the Gigabyte 8PE667 Ultra and MSi 845PE MAX-FIR Review. Honestly, I'd lean towards Gigabyte's because it is the better overclocker. The cheaper version of the 8PE667 costs around $100.
gigabyte looks nice!
Honestly, I'm not trying to be mean or anything.... but why do you need help? It seems like you already know what you want and you aren't really listening to the polite suggestions from these nice people.
Hardware. To be honest I am a bit confused on 2 things:
1. Are you looking to upgrade existing systems (with the Celerons/P3's on Slotkets) or build brand new ones? And
2. What is the goal of this upgrade/new PC;s? It seems like these systems are going to be used only for Excel/Word/etc type apps with a little AutoCAD correct???
The reason I am confused is that you keep on talking about putting GF4 Ti 4200's in there when, if I understand you, you have no need for that kind of 3D performance.
If you just are looking for PC's that are faster in office apps to replace the existing Celeron/P3's, then honestly I see no reason to build new ones. If you just want better Office app performance I think you can just slightly ovewrhaul the current systems. If this is the case then lets see in terms of US$:
$50 for Celeron 800-1GHz (Coppermine128)
$67 for a single 512MB stick of PC133 SDRAM (Crucial)
$55 for a Radeon 7500 SDR
$115 for a WD800JB
Total: about $300 for each PC (assuming each PC has a slotket)
Now, to build the next systems (which will not provide significantly faster Office Application performance, the biggest improvment with this sytem would be in AutoCAD) lets see:
$90 Celeron 2.0
$150 512MB PC2700
$100 for a Gigabyte 8PE667
$55 for a Radeon 7500 SDR
$115 for a WD800JB
$86 for an Antec SX835II (350W power supply)
Total:about $600
You will end up spending double to build a "new" PC and I doubt seriously that you would notice a significant difference between the 2 systems in the applications that I understand you would be using them in (except in AutoCAD where the faster Celeron 2GHz would be faster. The Upgraded system (using the same case, and motherboard) will perform better than the current systems with 5400RPM HD's, 128-256MB of RAM and Celerons 600 and less.
So, my advice is you to just renovate the existing systems with the fastest CuMine-128 Celeron you can get, a WD 8MB Cache HD, 512MB PC133 SDRAM, and you will have plenty of performance for a long time. Spend the extra cash you would save (almost $3000) on getting each system a modern OS if they don't (like WIndows XP Professional, $150 OEM)
1. Are you looking to upgrade existing systems (with the Celerons/P3's on Slotkets) or build brand new ones? And
2. What is the goal of this upgrade/new PC;s? It seems like these systems are going to be used only for Excel/Word/etc type apps with a little AutoCAD correct???
The reason I am confused is that you keep on talking about putting GF4 Ti 4200's in there when, if I understand you, you have no need for that kind of 3D performance.
If you just are looking for PC's that are faster in office apps to replace the existing Celeron/P3's, then honestly I see no reason to build new ones. If you just want better Office app performance I think you can just slightly ovewrhaul the current systems. If this is the case then lets see in terms of US$:
$50 for Celeron 800-1GHz (Coppermine128)
$67 for a single 512MB stick of PC133 SDRAM (Crucial)
$55 for a Radeon 7500 SDR
$115 for a WD800JB
Total: about $300 for each PC (assuming each PC has a slotket)
Now, to build the next systems (which will not provide significantly faster Office Application performance, the biggest improvment with this sytem would be in AutoCAD) lets see:
$90 Celeron 2.0
$150 512MB PC2700
$100 for a Gigabyte 8PE667
$55 for a Radeon 7500 SDR
$115 for a WD800JB
$86 for an Antec SX835II (350W power supply)
Total:about $600
You will end up spending double to build a "new" PC and I doubt seriously that you would notice a significant difference between the 2 systems in the applications that I understand you would be using them in (except in AutoCAD where the faster Celeron 2GHz would be faster. The Upgraded system (using the same case, and motherboard) will perform better than the current systems with 5400RPM HD's, 128-256MB of RAM and Celerons 600 and less.
So, my advice is you to just renovate the existing systems with the fastest CuMine-128 Celeron you can get, a WD 8MB Cache HD, 512MB PC133 SDRAM, and you will have plenty of performance for a long time. Spend the extra cash you would save (almost $3000) on getting each system a modern OS if they don't (like WIndows XP Professional, $150 OEM)
You're going for a 50% overclock on 9 PCs? And you're concerned about stability issues with stock Athlon XP machines?
Seriously man, get XP1600+ Cpus on Nforce (2 or otherwise) mobos. The celerons suck, and you're blatantly not going to get all 9 up to 3GHz
Athlon4All. I don't think you can use US funds as an example to hardware as i do believe he is out to spend Euros and not *US Dollars*.
Wow, there are a lot of things going on in this thread. I just want to put in one part of my opinion, and back what several others have mentioned:
Overclocking work computers is a bad idea.
End of story.
Overclocking work computers is a bad idea.
End of story.
MadRat
Lifer
- Oct 14, 1999
- 11,999
- 307
- 126
I wonder if he suddenly abandoned this thread now that a majority of the posters are opposing him one way or another.
With Tom Pabst's recent ego tripping and a close German friend of mine going through an identical id quandry, the question begs to be asked, "Do all Germans have this incessant superiority complex inherently bred into them?"
With Tom Pabst's recent ego tripping and a close German friend of mine going through an identical id quandry, the question begs to be asked, "Do all Germans have this incessant superiority complex inherently bred into them?"
Yea I know, I just really don't know of what stores he would be going to so I just used the prices I had available to give Hardware some kind of picture how muich more it would cost to build new systems.
He posted yesterday @ 2:19. I doubt he's left although, it seems that most people posting here are not really posting for the reason of the thread (which is that he needs help). So, I would ask that people who are thinking about (or have) posting sarcastic and mean remarks to/about Hardware to stop.
Hardware, I would like to suggest that if you are still interested in my help, that we continue this in email. My email is in my profile, throw me an email if you would like. Jesus Bless!!
Well, they are roughly comparable. At the current exchange rate, one Euro is equal to .9933 US dollars.
Eric
The value of Euros and dollars may be similar, but the cost of the components is not.
Somethign that costs $600 will not cost ?600.
As people have said, you should go for XP's, even if you don't think they are stable. Some XP's with DDR and SD RAM slots would mean you could re use the RAM from the old machines, and possibly upgrade to DDR in the future. Matrox cards are fine, especially for 2D, and they aren't all that expensive. If you want good 2D get Matrox cards, they mainly cater for professionals anyway.
If you are worried about XP's stability, then you could always underclock a 2000+ or something, it'll still be faster than a Celery.
Somethign that costs $600 will not cost ?600.
As people have said, you should go for XP's, even if you don't think they are stable. Some XP's with DDR and SD RAM slots would mean you could re use the RAM from the old machines, and possibly upgrade to DDR in the future. Matrox cards are fine, especially for 2D, and they aren't all that expensive. If you want good 2D get Matrox cards, they mainly cater for professionals anyway.
If you are worried about XP's stability, then you could always underclock a 2000+ or something, it'll still be faster than a Celery.
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