Help me with my setup

[mrSHEiK124]

I'm currently tethering to my cell phone for Internet, but I recently moved and don't have solid 3G reception throughout the entire house. I'm getting FiOS sometime next week.

First off, how exactly does FiOS work. I know it's fiber straight to the house, blah blah blah, but they give you a wireless router as well, and it blows. Is it possible to just get a FiOS "modem", or does the "modem" end of things happen in the fiber box they install in the house, letting me just plug that WAN cable in to any router I want?

I bought a Linksys WRT350N from Newegg, which I'll put by my desktop and connect to with Cat6, and then my roommate/guests will just use the Wireless N.

However, I've got an HTPC, an XBOX 360, and a networked printer much farther away than I'm willing to run cable. If I were to get a second WRT350N, or any DD-WRT compatible wireless router for that matter, would I be able to plug those distant devices into it, and have them behave as if they're plugged into the first router via that 802.11n link between the two routers? I don't want the second router to be accessible wirelessly, only through the 4 ports on the switch.

Here's an elaborate MSPaint drawing of what I'm trying to do. Any help is appreciated. Keep in mind that I have to be able to print to the networked printer from my computer plugged into Router 1, and I'd like to be able to stream media to the 360 (as a Media Extender) from both my computer and the HTPC. Also, if it all possible, it would absolutely kick ass to still be able to plug a USB drive into either storage link on the routers and have it be accessible on the "other" end of things (Hard Drive plugged into Router 1, accessible by 360, HTPC, and vice versa).

HMM, I just thought of something interesting. Since I'm going to have two wireless routers, and I realized that a Nintendo DS connecting as illustrated will drop the whole network down to 11 Mbps, including my link to the 360, HTPC, and printer, would it not be smarter to have the first router operate in N mode only, and then the second router as mixed mode, broadcasting an AP for any legacy devices as well? Wait, then anything connects to the second router and it's link back to the first router goes down to 11 mbps as well. Ah, fuck, I've given myself an aneurysm.

 

[Griffinhart]

Well, first bit of advice I can give is to make sure that use Cat 5 Cable to your router rather than Coax. If you aren't getting FIOS TV it shouldn't be a problem. They will try hard to use the Coax since it's easier for them, but if you are insistent they should be able to just use Cat 5.

If they don't use cat 5 you will have to use their router, which frankly sucks and is only 11G. If that's the case disable the wireless feature of the FIOS router and then disable the DHCP of the Linksys router. Connect the two with a cross over cable (not a straight patch cable). That should set you up for one end.

Looking at your diagram you are looking for a wireless switch. Some routers can be configured as such, but I'm not sure which 11N products do.

I use a wireless bridge/access point myself.

I have it configured as a bridge. It will do exactly what you want while not allowing people to use it like an access point (though it can be used as one too)

My network is has some similar components to what you want to do.

My FIOS connection comes in an plugs into my DIR-655 Router via Cat5. This router is set to only use 11N. connected to that I have my Media Center PC and a Linksys WRT54AG router broadcasting two separate Wireless networks. One is 11A specifically for two XBox 360s and Two Media Center Extenders (One HP and one Linksys). The other is 11G to support the single 11G computer in the house along with my Zune (yes I'm the guy that got one) for wireless syncing.

Connecting on the 11N network is the wireless bridge I linked above. Connected to that is a HP EX470 Windows Home server, My Desktop PC, A test PC and my Laptop (when it's not using the 11N on it's own I use ethernet for faster access to my Windows Home Server for backups)

I have only been using the bridge a couple of weeks, about the same time I got the home server. So far it has been fantastic. Full Gigabit connections to everything connected to it plus the fast 11N connection to the internet and media center PC.

Eventually, I'd like to consolidate My two routers into one, but I would need to get a Dual Band 11N router that can broadcast 11N and 11A simultaneously. My preference is for the DIR-855, but it's $300 and I don't want to spend that much as long as my current set up is working just fine.

Edit:
I went the 11N only route to avoid legacy 11G devices from slowing things down. Since I needed 11A to stream Media to my 360's and my Linksys WRT54AG is a dual band A/G router it allowed me to isolate the slower 11G traffic without interfering with my 11N traffic.

I'm not a big fan of Linksys these days, but for your router you may want to consider the WRT610N at the FIOS router and a Wireless Switch at the other end. It's a fairly inexpensive dual band router that will let you isolate the slower Wii traffic from the rest of your network so you don't get that slower connection when it's in use.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

So I just need to make sure they run Cat5 from that FiOS control box that they put in to wherever I want my network equipment. I'm not getting FiOS TV, but was going to try and see if they'd still send the local HDs over as unencrypted QAM; I've got a few feet of coax, the "box" is probably ending up in my closet anyways.

I was considering the WRT600N/WRT610N but passed because I didn't feel like I'd need it, I guess I see why I would now. I'm most likely going to buy a WRT310N from Buy.com's eBay store using Live 30% cashback.

You know, since the Verizon router is given to me for free anyways, I think I'm going to connect FiOS directly to the WRT350N, which will only have an N network, and then connect the Verizon router to it (cabled) to broadcast b/g. Then, whatever second router I decided to use as a wireless switch (DD-WRT allows this, I think even the stock firmware does) will always function with a full 270 Mbps link.

If I'm not mistaken, I should disable DHCP on every router BUT the very first router which is connected directly to FiOS, right?

 

[Griffinhart]

lmao, wow, I totally missed the obvious suggestion of just using the verizon router for 11b/g traffic. Then again, I really dislike that router.

When they install FIOS they will run a new Fiber cable to your house from the street. This will replace any copper line you may have running for existing telephone. They will then install an optical network terminal (ONT) either outside the house or in the basement/garage with a UPS attached. My install is in the basement. The ONT has two ports. One ethernet, the other is Coax. Some models can do only do one or the other while some models of ONT can do both simultaneously. From there they run the cable to where you will be placing your router. They gave me the actiontec router. after forcing them to install ethernet instead of coax they set things up with their router. I then swapped out my DIR-655 in its place and continued on my way.

I never tried using the 11g router on my network, but a week after I got my installation my friends mother got FIOS as well and used it. It was fine with perfect line of site but her laptop was across the house, about as far away from the router as you can get. It was just unreliable as hell. In the end I set her up with a set of powerline adapters and she's been happy since.

having your primary router be your DHCP server is the easiest way. I'm not sure if you would be given a correct gateway addresses otherwise.

What you have planned should do the trick pretty well. Obviously, you won't get the full 270Mbps over N, but you should still get excellent speeds. My set up usually gets me around or just above 100Mbps. Not anywhere near gigabit speed, but faster than the average 10/100 connection.

Enjoy your FIOS connection. What speed are you getting? I've had FIOS for about 14 months how. I'm getting reliable 20/5 speeds. I've had one outage so far. It lasted about 30 minutes late one night. Speed, reliability and uptime has beaten my old Comcast account hands down.

I only have two complaints at the moment. One old and one new.

-Port blocking. Verizon blocks port 80. Fortunately EasyDNS (My Domain provider) allows me stealth redirect a web address to a different port to get around the limitation.
-The provided Web Mail client now has ads. This is new. About a month ago they decided to add annoying flash ads to all web mail clients. I hate it. I'm paying for the mailbox with my account, I don't like that.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: Griffinhart
-Port blocking. Verizon blocks port 80. Fortunately EasyDNS (My Domain provider) allows me stealth redirect a web address to a different port to get around the limitation.

Yeah, that's a crying shame that even with the bandwidth of FIOS, we the consumer can't avail ourselves of the ubiquitous utility of HTTP over the standard port. Especially now with WHS allowing remote access/control over the internet of LAN-connected machines.

If there was any way to get Verizon in trouble with the FCC or FTC or whatever, for their port-blocking (much like Comcast got in trouble for their blocking of bittorrent), then I would, in a heartbeat.

Btw, tell me about EasyDNS. Are they a dynDNS provider, or do I need a static IP and a regular domain name to use them. I'd like to learn more about a way around Verizon's stupid blocking.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: Griffinhart
lmao, wow, I totally missed the obvious suggestion of just using the verizon router for 11b/g traffic. Then again, I really dislike that router.

When they install FIOS they will run a new Fiber cable to your house from the street. This will replace any copper line you may have running for existing telephone. They will then install an optical network terminal (ONT) either outside the house or in the basement/garage with a UPS attached. My install is in the basement. The ONT has two ports. One ethernet, the other is Coax. Some models can do only do one or the other while some models of ONT can do both simultaneously. From there they run the cable to where you will be placing your router. They gave me the actiontec router. after forcing them to install ethernet instead of coax they set things up with their router. I then swapped out my DIR-655 in its place and continued on my way.

I never tried using the 11g router on my network, but a week after I got my installation my friends mother got FIOS as well and used it. It was fine with perfect line of site but her laptop was across the house, about as far away from the router as you can get. It was just unreliable as hell. In the end I set her up with a set of powerline adapters and she's been happy since.

having your primary router be your DHCP server is the easiest way. I'm not sure if you would be given a correct gateway addresses otherwise.

What you have planned should do the trick pretty well. Obviously, you won't get the full 270Mbps over N, but you should still get excellent speeds. My set up usually gets me around or just above 100Mbps. Not anywhere near gigabit speed, but faster than the average 10/100 connection.

Enjoy your FIOS connection. What speed are you getting? I've had FIOS for about 14 months how. I'm getting reliable 20/5 speeds. I've had one outage so far. It lasted about 30 minutes late one night. Speed, reliability and uptime has beaten my old Comcast account hands down.

I only have two complaints at the moment. One old and one new.

-Port blocking. Verizon blocks port 80. Fortunately EasyDNS (My Domain provider) allows me stealth redirect a web address to a different port to get around the limitation.
-The provided Web Mail client now has ads. This is new. About a month ago they decided to add annoying flash ads to all web mail clients. I hate it. I'm paying for the mailbox with my account, I don't like that.

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll just get in the techs face about giving me an ONT with ethernet and using that instead of the coax; I don't really care too much about the old copper, we don't have a POTS line, college students living in an apartment, we both use our cell phones.

I'm probably going to go for 20/5 as well. I was considering Road Runner, but then there's the fact that every single WiFi connection I can latch onto, whether open or cracking WEP (just for fun, not stealing any internet from these folks), reports Road Runner as the service provider, and they recently began offering FiOS in this apartment complex. I'm fairly certain that anyone in here with internet has Road Runner, I don't want to be on anything congested.

What are the chances that the coax port on the ONT will have unencrypted QAM locals for me? Or do they block it all off if I'm not paying for TV? Also, them blocking port 80 doesn't bother me too much, all I need is 8080 for remote access to the router and whatever port RDP uses.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Griffinhart]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: Griffinhart
-Port blocking. Verizon blocks port 80. Fortunately EasyDNS (My Domain provider) allows me stealth redirect a web address to a different port to get around the limitation.

Yeah, that's a crying shame that even with the bandwidth of FIOS, we the consumer can't avail ourselves of the ubiquitous utility of HTTP over the standard port. Especially now with WHS allowing remote access/control over the internet of LAN-connected machines.

fortunately they don't block HTTPS, so I use that for my windows home server and it work very well. I keep a remote desktop connection up at work all day long.

Btw, tell me about EasyDNS. Are they a dynDNS provider, or do I need a static IP and a regular domain name to use them. I'd like to learn more about a way around Verizon's stupid blocking.

I've been using EasyDNS for about 10 years now. They support both static and dynamic DNS. They support several dynamic DNS clients on Linux, Windows, OSX and even support some Java based clients. I personally let my router do all the work. My DLink DIR-655 lets me put in the server address and credentials and it automatically updates EasyDNS every time I get a new IP address.

They also let me use their SMTP server for outgoing mail since Verizon will not let me send mail if my mailers from field doesn't say verizon.net.

I can do URL forwarding based on IP, or HTTP address and there is a "stealth" option on the forwarding so your browsers address bar stays with the "domain.com" address rather than the actual host name.

I can't rave enough about this service. The few times I've needed to contact them for support they were more than helpful. This is one of those rare times when the company name really is what you're getting. I've recommended them to many friends over the years and all of them have stuck with them and own multiple domains through them for families, friends and businesses.

 

[Griffinhart]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124


What are the chances that the coax port on the ONT will have unencrypted QAM locals for me? Or do they block it all off if I'm not paying for TV? Also, them blocking port 80 doesn't bother me too much, all I need is 8080 for remote access to the router and whatever port RDP uses.

Thanks again for all the help.

I can't help you on the QAM thing unfortunately. I haven't even tried to look at that. Remote Desktop does, however work. The only ports that they block is 80 and 25. I'm fairly sure 8080 is open.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Already have the WRT350N, getting the WRT310N in the mail on Monday, FiOS tech is coming out on Thursday.

So key stuff for me:
1. Ask for the ONT in my bedroom closet
2. Demand that they run Cat5 from the ONT instead of RG-59/RG-6
3. ?
4. Profit

 

[mrSHEiK124]

The FiOS tech is here!

As I suspected, the fruity floral print looking thing in my roommate's closet is the fiber; that's what I get for having the master bedroom at our last place. On the other hand, the coax run will be easy, he's just going to run coax from the ONT into the jack in his room, which will conveniently pop out at the coax jack a few inches from my computer; if I want to fuck around and try for QAM locals, I can

He's also leaving me enough Cat5 to run under the carpet to my room, rather nice of him.

EDIT: As an afterthought, this is kind of why I was leaning towards Bright House (Road Runner); they just plug the coax into the apartment from that big green box and I can plug whatever the hell I want in wherever the hell I want, provided there's a coax port there. That and the $10/mo student discount; but now I get sweet sweet 20/5.

EDIT2: Wow, I thought he was testing the fiber, then he comes into my room with some Cat5 under the carpet, all the way across the apartment. Used a little magnet roller, awesome! Now I don't have to worry about HAVING to use the Actiontec for anything but a b/g access point. He also mentioned that QAM wouldn't have worked anyways, they block off TV until you pay for it. I'm not convinced, I'm probably going to end up testing it :evil:

 

[mrSHEiK124]

All done setting my kooky end of things up. Cat5 from the ONT goes to the WAN port on my WRT350N, LAN1 on WRT350N goes to my desktop, LAN2 goes to LAN1 on the Actiontec which has DHCP disabled, SPI disabled, etc. WRT310N is set to "Client Bridge" mode and is working just fine with WPA2/AES, my Brother printer is plugged into LAN1 and has a static IP assigned to it from the WRT350N.

DD-WRT fucking rocks.

Mandatory speed test: http://www.speedtest.net/result/371250691.png
For some reason, I get better pings AND speeds from the Jacksonville server, and I'm in Tampa. Not exactly 20/5, but it's fast :evil: