Help me upgrade gaming machine

[kommisar]

I posted a week or so back about an upgrade for my gaming PC. Since then I realized that I would need to upgrade to Windows 7 in order to play battlefield 3. So, lets try this again...

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. Gaming: Starcraft 2, Diablo 3, Battlefield 3.

2. What YOUR budget is. $500.

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from. USA.

4. IF YOU have a brand preference. Don't care.

5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

Would like to re-use my PATA HD and DVD drive, case and power supply.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds. Don't care.

8. What resolution will you be using? 1280x1024.

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?

within a month.

X. Do you need to purchase any software to go with the system, such as Windows or Blu Ray playback software?
windows 7

As background, my current machine is an i865 motherboard with DDR 400 memory, AGP graphics, E4400 CPU, Radeon x1950 pro video card.

I prefer not to buy refurb/open box and don't consider rebate prices. I do live within 70 miles of microcenter though.

Anyway here is my attempt to maximize gaming performance:

Asus P8H67-M PRO/CSM $110
i3 2120 $125
Powercolor Radeon HD 7770 $130
Crucial 2x2gb DDR3 1333 $25
Windows 7 $99

I chose the mb, even though pricey, because it has a PATA socket, which will save me from replacing my HD and DVD.

I chose the Radeon HD 7770 because I'm trying to re-use my current power supply (Enermax EG301P-VB 24P) which can output +3.3V@28A,+5V@30A,+12V@22A,-12V@1A,+5VSB@2.2A. Not sure if this can power an i3 2120 and a more power hungry card like a Radeon 6850.

I am willing to replace power supply, HD and DVD drive but I don’t think it will result in better gaming performance under this budget.

 

[DSF]

Do you have any reasonable expectation of being able to save up a little bit more money over the course of a few months?

$500 is such a tight budget for a gaming upgrade where you need all the core components AND an OS. It can be done, but if it were me I'd be happier holding off for a few months and spending $700-1000 a little later on, instead of spending $500 for a system that will need upgrades sooner rather than later anyway. Maybe you can get some money towards it as a birthday or holiday gift?

If not, I understand. It just seems like you're having to make some harsh compromises when your goal is playing a fairly resource-intensive game. At least it helps that your monitor res is low.

Edit: Also, I know you said you don't want to buy open box, but with a new round of video cards coming out, I'd bet you could find good used video card prices either in the For Sale section here or on eBay/craigslist. You might even score a cheap Sandy Bridge from someone who's upgrading to Ivy Bridge. It's at least worth looking.

 

[mfenn]

Do you have any reasonable expectation of being able to save up a little bit more money over the course of a few months?

$500 is such a tight budget for a gaming upgrade where you need all the core components AND an OS. It can be done, but if it were me I'd be happier holding off for a few months and spending $700-1000 a little later on, instead of spending $500 for a system that will need upgrades sooner rather than later anyway. Maybe you can get some money towards it as a birthday or holiday gift?

Overall I agree with this.

However, if you can't wait, what you have picked out is pretty decent.

 

[krnmastersgt]

Based on the responses I got in the PC Gaming section, I'm not entirely sure this is the best route. While the HD 4000 probably wouldn't run BF3 well I think with lowered settings and such it'd give at least somewhat playable framerates. That would let you spend more on your system now on many of the core components and gives you the option of just popping in a discrete video card whenever the money comes around for it (if you have any stable source of money or as DSF suggested, ask around for money as a present in advance).

If you made the trip to MC you could pick up a 3570K + motherboard for ~$250, grab W7 Pro 64 bit ~$100-110, ~$40 on 8 GB of ram and leave yourself around $50 to $70 for a new hard drive depending on the taxes in your state. Alternatively I believe there are still PATA to SATA converters you can grab pretty cheaply at some sites, could buy a relatively cheap discrete card if you can find a decent deal on a somewhat decent card (I got my GTX 460 for around $60 well over a year ago thanks to a rebate).

 

[Ken g6]

Well, I'd like to suggest still a different route. First, if it weren't for that PATA thing, you could get a cheap $50 board, right? Well, how about:

- Biostar H61 board, $55/$50AR with shipping
- An adapter that'll let you use your PATA HDD with a SATA-only board, $17 with shipping.
- ASUS DVD-RW drive, $18 with free shipping, because it's $1 more than keeping your old one.
- i3-2100 CPU, $90 in-store at Micro Center; figure $100 with gas and tax.
- One stick DDR3-1333 4GB, $20. We're on a budget, dual-channel doesn't add that much, and this way you can upgrade later! (Micro Center has a stick for $18; if they have it while you're there, it's 1.5V, and Cas level 9, you could get it instead - but they don't say on the site.)
- Corsair 430W PSU $40@Amazon, or $30 AR AP @Newegg if you bought, like, right now.
- Win7, $100
- SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 6850, $150/$135AR. It only takes one PCI-Express connector, and that's what you'll be getting.

Total: $500 with shipping and gas before up-to-$30 in rebates.

 

[krnmastersgt]

Ken's build is nice (doesn't factor in taxes D and an overall very good gaming system, in terms of immediate returns its probably the best suggestion in the thread. I still stand by my suggestion if you can wait it out though, you can even drop the 3570K to a 2500K since some MC's apparently let you still take advantage of the combo and knock off $50 from the motherboard, ask to be sure at yours though.

 

[lehtv]

+1 to ken's build, honestly nothing I'd change

 

[Ken g6]

Ken's build is nice (doesn't factor in taxes D

Most of us live in states where Newegg and Amazon don't collect sales taxes from us. (You live in a state where Amazon doesn't; I live in one that got blocked from trying. ) Of course, there may be "use taxes", but really, nobody pays attention to those. :twisted: And I roughly guessed at the tax at Micro Center.

 

[kommisar]

Well, I'd like to suggest still a different route. First, if it weren't for that PATA thing, you could get a cheap $50 board, right? Well, how about:

- Biostar H61 board, $55/$50AR with shipping
- An adapter that'll let you use your PATA HDD with a SATA-only board, $17 with shipping.
- ASUS DVD-RW drive, $18 with free shipping, because it's $1 more than keeping your old one.
- i3-2100 CPU, $90 in-store at Micro Center; figure $100 with gas and tax.
- One stick DDR3-1333 4GB, $20. We're on a budget, dual-channel doesn't add that much, and this way you can upgrade later! (Micro Center has a stick for $18; if they have it while you're there, it's 1.5V, and Cas level 9, you could get it instead - but they don't say on the site.)
- Corsair 430W PSU $40@Amazon, or $30 AR AP @Newegg if you bought, like, right now.
- Win7, $100
- SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 6850, $150/$135AR. It only takes one PCI-Express connector, and that's what you'll be getting.

Total: $500 with shipping and gas before up-to-$30 in rebates.

Thats a real nice build. I appreciate your input. Question for you, is the 6850 significantly better than the 7770? The reason I asked is using newegg's power supply calculator, an i3 build with a 7770 requires a 300w power supply while and i3 with a 6850 requires a 360w power supply. My current power supply IS a 300w power supply. I would just need to get a peripheral to pcie adaptor.

 

[DSF]

Thats a real nice build. I appreciate your input. Question for you, is the 6850 significantly better than the 7770? The reason I asked is using newegg's power supply calculator, an i3 build with a 7770 requires a 300w power supply while and i3 with a 6850 requires a 360w power supply. My current power supply IS a 300w power supply. I would just need to get a peripheral to pcie adaptor.

Here's the comparison from AT's own bench:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/539?vs=536

 

[kommisar]

Do you have any reasonable expectation of being able to save up a little bit more money over the course of a few months?

$500 is such a tight budget for a gaming upgrade where you need all the core components AND an OS. It can be done, but if it were me I'd be happier holding off for a few months and spending $700-1000 a little later on, instead of spending $500 for a system that will need upgrades sooner rather than later anyway. Maybe you can get some money towards it as a birthday or holiday gift?

My budget is dictated by having to get buy in from the spouse given that this purchase is a luxury item.

Is the i3 with radeon 7770/6850 a marginal build for current games at 1280x1024?

 

[kommisar]

If you made the trip to MC you could pick up a 3570K + motherboard for ~$250, grab W7 Pro 64 bit ~$100-110, ~$40 on 8 GB of ram and leave yourself around $50 to $70 for a new hard drive depending on the taxes in your state. Alternatively I believe there are still PATA to SATA converters you can grab pretty cheaply at some sites, could buy a relatively cheap discrete card if you can find a decent deal on a somewhat decent card (I got my GTX 460 for around $60 well over a year ago thanks to a rebate).

This is a very interesting idea considering I could get an adaptor for the HD as Ken G6 suggested.Top shelf CPU with integrated graphics now and a discreet video card down the road. Do you think that Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 would be playable on the HD 4000 integrated graphics at 1280x1024?

 

[kommisar]

Here is a build with a slightly larger budget:

ASUS P8Z77-V LX $90
i5 3570k $190
Radeon 7750 $110
Win 7 $100
2 x 2 GB Crucial DD3 1333 $25
- An adapter that'll let you use your PATA HDD with a SATA-only board, $17 with shipping.
- ASUS DVD-RW drive, $18 with free shipping, because it's $1 more than keeping your old one.

Re-use current power supply (build only requires 300w per new egg calculator). This is $550 before sales tax on the CPU and MB ($20-30). What do you guys think?

 

[Ken g6]

Let me show you a few benchmarks. First, the three graphics cards you could get:

7750 vs 6850
7770 vs 6850

I believe BF3 is the most hardware-intensive game you listed that you want to play. (It's one of the most hardware-intensive period.) Here is a multiplayer bench for 2 vs. 4 cores of a 2500k. Even 2 cores get 66FPS average (on a super graphics card setup), about what I'd expect from an i3-2100. So you'll probably be GPU-limited whichever GPU you get. Hence I suggest the 6850 over the 7750.

The 7770 actually isn't that far off from the 6850. On the other hand, your power supply seems to be old, and aging power supplies can't support as much load. Replacing it would be a good investment.

 

[krnmastersgt]

Not entirely sure the 7750 is worth purchasing at that price, for just a little more you could grab a 6850 which is considerably stronger, although I guess that would force you to get a new PSU.

[Edit: Moot point considering the bench that Ken linked]

Which is why I'm not sure what to recommend to you knowing the resolution you'll play at. While the 7750 doesn't really compare to the 6850, for your resolution it will probably run everything extremely well for now.

A few last things to take into consideration is that PSUs, even when rated at something like 300W aren't always capable of supplying that much power constantly. You have $90 set aside for the board, I'm not sure if that's with the $50 discount taken into account but there are multiple boards that are normally ~$110 that become $60 after the discount (if they still give it to you, you should call ahead!).

And to Ken: I am aware maybe e-tailers don't collect taxes in many states, however I remember not too long ago reading up that around 38 states or so passed very similar legislation that basically had them all collecting taxes now. Though as you said, Amazon doesn't charge any for purchases from California.

 

[kommisar]

Thanks for your input. It was very helpful. This is what I have decided on:

Biostar H61MGC $50
i3 2100 $90
Sapphire 6870 $170
Corsair CX430 $45
1 x 4GB DDR $20
Samsung DVD RW $16
Win 7 $100
PATA Sata adap $17

tax + shipping ~$20
total $528

possible rebates $25

Close enough to the $500 budget and with upgrades to RAM and video card possible (thats usually all I upgrade).

 

[mfenn]

Thats a real nice build. I appreciate your input. Question for you, is the 6850 significantly better than the 7770? The reason I asked is using newegg's power supply calculator, an i3 build with a 7770 requires a 300w power supply while and i3 with a 6850 requires a 360w power supply. My current power supply IS a 300w power supply. I would just need to get a peripheral to pcie adaptor.

Ken's build includes a new power supply though.

 

[mfenn]

Thanks for your input. It was very helpful. This is what I have decided on:

Biostar H61MGC $50
i3 2100 $90
Sapphire 6870 $170
Corsair CX430 $45
1 x 4GB DDR $20
Samsung DVD RW $16
Win 7 $100
PATA Sata adap $17

tax + shipping ~$20
total $528

possible rebates $25

Close enough to the $500 budget and with upgrades to RAM and video card possible (thats usually all I upgrade).

The 6870 will require the use of one of the Molex to PCIe adapters since the 430CX only has one native PCIe power connector. The 430CX has plenty of power to handle it, just giving you a heads up.

 

[kommisar]

Thanks for your input. It was very helpful. This is what I have decided on:

Biostar H61MGC $50
i3 2100 $90
Sapphire 6870 $170
Corsair CX430 $45
1 x 4GB DDR $20
Samsung DVD RW $16
Win 7 $100
PATA Sata adap $17

tax + shipping ~$20
total $528

possible rebates $25

Close enough to the $500 budget and with upgrades to RAM and video card possible (thats usually all I upgrade).

Its been several weeks since the last post and the upgrade has been completed. Here is what I ended up purchasing:

Biostar H61MGC $50
i3 2120 $125
Sapphire 6950 2GB $200
Enermax NAXN 450w $50
2 x 4GB DDR $44
Samsung DVD RW $16
Win 7 $100
PATA Sata adap $12
Battlefield 3 download $0

The most important difference was the 6950 video card instead of the 6870. This card was on sale with a free Battlefield 3 download. Since I needed to get the game anyway, it made the cost of the 6950 the same as the 6870.

I decided not to make the trip to microcenter as the savings would have been minimal after 7 gallons of gas and 3+ hours of my time. So I got a 2120 instead of a 2100.

I got the Enermax power supply because it had two pcie connectors and because the Corsair 430 had a lot of bad feedback describing infant failures.

The adapter that was suggested for using IDE drives with a Sata controller,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812119257

did exactly the opposite of what was needed. It was for using Sata drives with an IDE controller. The IDE pins on this adapter will not plug into an IDE drive, but would plug into a cable. Similarly the connector on the Sata side would not plug into a Sata cable but would plug into Sata drive.

I ended up ordering

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812232004

which does work for connecting an IDE device to a Sata controller. The pins are correct for plugging it into an IDE device and for connecting a Sata cable. I set the drive jumper to master and it works although the feedback indicates that some drives requires cable select setting. The naming conventions on these adapters is not consistent with their function. You need to read the description and feedback carefully to determine if it will perform the function you need.

Finally, I upped the memory to a full 8 GB. It seems like BF3 can use more than 4 GB, with high texture settings and 64 person MP.

I'm also using the machine in a different configuration than originally intended. Instead of using my 1280x1024 LCD, I use my living room tv, which is a 46" 120 Hz Samsung at 1920x1080. I use the VGA input which is supposed to bypass the lag caused by the image processing on the HDMI inputs. For sound I have headphones with 1/8" speaker and mic jacks which work fine with the onboard sound and analog outputs. For network I run a cable from my router about 25' away. I had to splice a 24' and 6' using an inline connector that I got at a local used parts store for $5. I am using an old ps2 keyboard and mouse that I had laying around in my parts bin. I plan to get a rolling computer desk to house all this stuff eventually since the machine does not reside permanently in the living room.

One more thing, the motherboard I got was a rev 6.6 and already had support for ivy bridge CPUs in the bios.

 

[mfenn]

So, do ya like it?

 

[azeem40]

you ya

I lol'd.

 

[mfenn]

I lol'd.

sssshh....

 

[azeem40]

Silly mfenn. Everyone knows I don't sssshh on forums.

 

[kommisar]

So, do ya like it?

Oh yeah. I have only played single player BF3 so far, but it is awesome to have eye candy settings on high and get a buttery smooth frame rate.

Hopefully most of these settings can be maintained during multiplayer.

Also sitting 3 feet from a 46" tv makes the screen feel enormous because it covers a large arc of vision. I'm guessing that is why people like multimonitor setups so much.

Anyway I say mission accomplished. I'm able to play a modern game with nice eye candy on a budget. Thanks for the suggestions in picking the necessary parts.

Now I have to figure out how to benchmark this sucker so i can provide data on how well an actual hyperthreading dual core performs on a 64 player server...

 

[mfenn]

Awesome! Glad you like it.

As for multiplayer benchmarking, that is always going to give you really variable results depending on what is going on. You'll have to do a lot of trials to get anything approaching statistical significance. As for how to technically do the benchmark, here's a good StackExchange Q&A.