Help me understand class warfare.

[techs]

For the last four years I have been adequately informed by Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, the Wall Street Journal, and just about every right wing propaganda machine in the country that Obama and the Democrats were trying to wage "class warfare"

I couldn't escape it. Raise taxes on the rich? Class warfare. Just mention that the income of the super rich was rising at a staggering rate compared to everyone else? Class warfare.

Yet, about 6 months ago some Republican Presidential candidate talked said: "All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. ... My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

And from then on it was a field day against Americans who were anything but middle to upper class.

Now every day there is another quote from a right winger about how the poor are destroying America.

So my question is:

Do I need to pretend that the right wing was never vehemently critical of any statement that even hinted at inequality or should I just say that I changed my mind and class warfare is the greatest thing ever invented in America?

 

[RabidMongoose]

The right wing is all about division. They are not about inclusion. They will do or say anything to continue to divide the country.

So things like class warfare or their war on minorities, etc. That's all part of their same strategy. A war against Americans.

What they do is pray on people who are susceptible to identity politics and that's their electorate.

 

[dmcowen674]

Help me understand class warfare.

The poor are going to kick the rich ass.

 

[Vic Vega]

Do you guys PM each other talking points so you can all post at once?

Awwww, how cute.

 

[Incorruptible]

Do you guys PM each other talking points so you can all post at once?

Awwww, how cute.

It is pretty entertaining how they like to work with each other though.

 

[Doppel]

Class Warfare is a term that rich people use when non-rich people try to make them pay more money.

 

[Matt1970]

Do you guys PM each other talking points so you can all post at once?

Awwww, how cute.

no, they just share the same brain. Guess which one is using it now?

 

[Incorruptible]

]no, they just share the same brain[/B]. Guess which one is using it now?

That is pretty much typical of their kind though

 

[piasabird]

The 47% came from some articles about the subject. One of the prevalent locations this article appeared was on CNN. It is only natural that something in the news would be talked about. It doesnt mean the haves hate the have-nots. It is that there are not enough tax-payers to keep the country going. Emotional Dribble will not pay the bills.

In the 1970's the state of New York was in default because the liberals in New York State could not control its spending. The same thing could happen to our federal government. We are very close to the edge now. We can still turn it around. Liberals are drunk on money, the more you raise taxes, the more they will spend they always want more and more and more, and they always spend more and more and more than there is.

I suggest you study history.

 

[runzwithsizorz]

Obama's class warfare means making people envious of someone else's success. Class warfare means demonizing only those "rich people" with whom you philosophically disagree. Class warfare means picking and choosing between the "good rich people" (i.e. Hollywood liberals, George Soros, labor union leaders) and the "bad rich people" (i.e. Mitt Romney, corporate CEO's, and etc.) Class warfare means insinuating that "you're not making it financially only because the "rich" have taken more than their "fair share". Class warfare means the government is the only power on Earth that can "make it all fair and balanced". Class warfare means ignoring the sacrifices and hard work many people endured to finally achieve the American dream. Class warfare means your financial status defines who you are (with the above mentioned exceptions).
If anyone here believes the very rich are intimidated by all this "get the rich" talk, you are sadly mistaken. The rich can shelter their wealth with tax loopholes (and expensive lawyers to find them), passing on any raises in the cost of doing business to you, the consumer, continuing to lobby congress to preserve their special interests, sending wealth and jobs overseas and I'm sure many other ways to maintain their wealth. Obama's "tax the rich" policy will generate about 50 billion a year, 3% of the total deficit. And if you think that money will be spent for social programs or to help anyone, or to lower the deficit, well dream on. Taxing the rich is no more than a cynical ploy to maintain a populist stance and appeal to the uninformed. "And so it goes".

 

[Tom]

The 47% came from some articles about the subject. One of the prevalent locations this article appeared was on CNN. It is only natural that something in the news would be talked about. It doesnt mean the haves hate the have-nots. It is that there are not enough tax-payers to keep the country going. Emotional Dribble will not pay the bills.

In the 1970's the state of New York was in default because the liberals in New York State could not control its spending. The same thing could happen to our federal government. We are very close to the edge now. We can still turn it around. Liberals are drunk on money, the more you raise taxes, the more they will spend they always want more and more and more, and they always spend more and more and more than there is.

I suggest you study history.

Complete nonsense. The country as a whole is wealthier than ever. There's plenty of money to fund government spending.

But because the wealth is more concentrated towards the top the only way to get the revenue is where the wealth is. At the top.

What needs to change is the ridiculous notion that we can't tax the wealthy.

 

[Jhhnn]

I suggest you study history.

Might try it yourself, particularly as it applies to the New Deal or to Reagan's militarized Keynesianism...

Class warfare? The top 1% share of national income has basically doubled over the last 30 years, at the expense of the bottom 60%, while tax rates on the uber wealthy have plunged to levels not seen since the 1920's.

So if there's class warfare, they're winning, because they have all the firepower-

The interesting thing is that the tax code, I wouldn’t call it a war, but it is a struggle. Groups try to keep their own taxes down. People lobby to keep their estate taxes down. They lobby to keep their capital gains taxes down. So, if this is a war – I wouldn’t call it a war, I’d call it a struggle – but, if this is a war, my side has had the nuclear bomb. We’ve got K-Street, we’ve got lobbyists, we’ve got money on our side in terms of lobbyists. Deb does not have a lobbyist. She doesn’t have anybody remotely that’s representing her. But, believe me, plenty of rich families have lobbyists that are working like crazy to get rid of estate taxes, lower capital gain taxes, whatever it may be. So, if there has been a war going on, the war has been waged by the people who are very well to do who are trying to shift the burden onto people like that and away from themselves.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/warren-b...f-this-is-a-war-my-side-has-the-nuclear-bomb/

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Class Warfare has been going on for a long time with the rich butt-raping the lower classes, but few people identified it as class warfare. Jobs were sent overseas, poor foreigners were imported via immigration, and educated foreigners were imported on work visas. It all puts downward pressure on wages but results in higher profits for business owners while destroying the American middle class.

 

[piasabird]

Our whole system of taxation is based on providing loopholes and credits to different groups. It is designed for class warfare and to pit one group against another. It is congress trying to pay off their constituants. It is congress that is not fair. We are just stuck with the mess that congress has made.

 

[piasabird]

Can you honestly say that you think that if taxes are raised on the rich, that congress will somehow spend less money and pay down the debt?

You dont really believe that, do you?

 

[michal1980]

Complete nonsense. The country as a whole is wealthier than ever. There's plenty of money to fund government spending.

But because the wealth is more concentrated towards the top the only way to get the revenue is where the wealth is. At the top.

What needs to change is the ridiculous notion that we can't tax the wealthy.

no there isn't enough money. taking all of the evil rich peoples money wouldn't cover the current deficet.

 

[LegendKiller]

Whenever somebody decries lower taxes to the wealthy I always asked them if those people only became wealthy since the lower tax rates. It's amazing that people don't realize that the wealthy were wealthy before the Bush tax rates, they were wealthy under higher cap gains taxes, they were wealthy under higher marginal rates. Hell, many were wealthy under the old rates under reagan.

Now, look at the middle class, or pretty much everybody else, can you say the same for them?

There is class warfare going on and it is obvious which class is winning.

 

[Insomniator]

obama's class warfare means making people envious of someone else's success. Class warfare means demonizing only those "rich people" with whom you philosophically disagree. Class warfare means picking and choosing between the "good rich people" (i.e. Hollywood liberals, george soros, labor union leaders) and the "bad rich people" (i.e. Mitt romney, corporate ceo's, and etc.) class warfare means insinuating that "you're not making it financially only because the "rich" have taken more than their "fair share". Class warfare means the government is the only power on earth that can "make it all fair and balanced". Class warfare means ignoring the sacrifices and hard work many people endured to finally achieve the american dream. Class warfare means your financial status defines who you are (with the above mentioned exceptions).
If anyone here believes the very rich are intimidated by all this "get the rich" talk, you are sadly mistaken. The rich can shelter their wealth with tax loopholes (and expensive lawyers to find them), passing on any raises in the cost of doing business to you, the consumer, continuing to lobby congress to preserve their special interests, sending wealth and jobs overseas and i'm sure many other ways to maintain their wealth. Obama's "tax the rich" policy will generate about 50 billion a year, 3% of the total deficit. And if you think that money will be spent for social programs or to help anyone, or to lower the deficit, well dream on. Taxing the rich is no more than a cynical ploy to maintain a populist stance and appeal to the uninformed. "and so it goes".

thank you

 

[Jhhnn]

Obama's class warfare means making people envious of someone else's success. Class warfare means demonizing only those "rich people" with whom you philosophically disagree. Class warfare means picking and choosing between the "good rich people" (i.e. Hollywood liberals, George Soros, labor union leaders) and the "bad rich people" (i.e. Mitt Romney, corporate CEO's, and etc.) Class warfare means insinuating that "you're not making it financially only because the "rich" have taken more than their "fair share". Class warfare means the government is the only power on Earth that can "make it all fair and balanced". Class warfare means ignoring the sacrifices and hard work many people endured to finally achieve the American dream. Class warfare means your financial status defines who you are (with the above mentioned exceptions).
If anyone here believes the very rich are intimidated by all this "get the rich" talk, you are sadly mistaken. The rich can shelter their wealth with tax loopholes (and expensive lawyers to find them), passing on any raises in the cost of doing business to you, the consumer, continuing to lobby congress to preserve their special interests, sending wealth and jobs overseas and I'm sure many other ways to maintain their wealth. Obama's "tax the rich" policy will generate about 50 billion a year, 3% of the total deficit. And if you think that money will be spent for social programs or to help anyone, or to lower the deficit, well dream on. Taxing the rich is no more than a cynical ploy to maintain a populist stance and appeal to the uninformed. "And so it goes".

Heh. Uber Wealthy people who liken progressive taxes to the Holocaust deserve to be demonized, as do those who claim raising LTCG rates by 5% would be like the invasion of Poland. If we did that, why, they be paying almost the same effective rates as the rest of the top 1%, most of whom make a small fraction of what guys like Mitt bring home. The Horror!

It's sad & amusing how Righties define the American Dream, which isn't what they think it is, at all. It's a lot more egalitarian than a relative few striking it Rich, but rather about a whole nation of prosperous people. That stands in direct opposition to the Plutocracy that middle class Righties worship so fervently.

It also reveals a strong disconnect from economic reality. When the top 1% own 50% of wealth, the top 20% own 84%, and 90% of growth goes to the top 1%, then the chances of Joe Sixpack seeing any of it are quite small.

Not that Righties will actually read any of it, their attention spans being rather limited, but I'll offer this up anyway-

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2009/04/american-dream200904

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/25/poll-wealth-distribution-similar-sweden/

Most Americans want the wealth distribution of Sweden, which is apparently the real American Dream...

The Truth! It Burns! No! No! Aiiieeee!!!

 

[Incorruptible]

Heh. Uber Wealthy people who liken progressive taxes to the Holocaust deserve to be demonized, as do those who claim raising LTCG rates by 5% would be like the invasion of Poland. If we did that, why, they be paying almost the same effective rates as the rest of the top 1%, most of whom make a small fraction of what guys like Mitt bring home. The Horror!

It's sad & amusing how Righties define the American Dream, which isn't what they think it is, at all. It's a lot more egalitarian than a relative few striking it Rich, but rather about a whole nation of prosperous people. That stands in direct opposition to the Plutocracy that middle class Righties worship so fervently.

It also reveals a strong disconnect from economic reality. When the top 1% own 50% of wealth, the top 20% own 84%, and 90% of growth goes to the top 1%, then the chances of Joe Sixpack seeing any of it are quite small.

Not that Righties will actually read any of it, their attention spans being rather limited, but I'll offer this up anyway-

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2009/04/american-dream200904

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/25/poll-wealth-distribution-similar-sweden/

Most Americans want the wealth distribution of Sweden, which is apparently the real American Dream...

The Truth! It Burns! No! No! Aiiieeee!!!

Why the need to resort to attacks on Conservatives? And what should happen with the extra revenue if taxes were to be raised which is completely idiotic?

 

[Vic Vega]

Can you honestly say that you think that if taxes are raised on the rich, that congress will somehow spend less money and pay down the debt?

You dont really believe that, do you?

They don't believe it, they just want an excuse to take more from people they don't like.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

There's only 1 million more people in Sweden than people in NYC. If Sweden was so great why did the owner of Ikea leave the country?

 

[Vic Vega]

Obama's class warfare means making people envious of someone else's success. Class warfare means demonizing only those "rich people" with whom you philosophically disagree. Class warfare means picking and choosing between the "good rich people" (i.e. Hollywood liberals, George Soros, labor union leaders) and the "bad rich people" (i.e. Mitt Romney, corporate CEO's, and etc.) Class warfare means insinuating that "you're not making it financially only because the "rich" have taken more than their "fair share". Class warfare means the government is the only power on Earth that can "make it all fair and balanced". Class warfare means ignoring the sacrifices and hard work many people endured to finally achieve the American dream. Class warfare means your financial status defines who you are (with the above mentioned exceptions).
If anyone here believes the very rich are intimidated by all this "get the rich" talk, you are sadly mistaken. The rich can shelter their wealth with tax loopholes (and expensive lawyers to find them), passing on any raises in the cost of doing business to you, the consumer, continuing to lobby congress to preserve their special interests, sending wealth and jobs overseas and I'm sure many other ways to maintain their wealth. Obama's "tax the rich" policy will generate about 50 billion a year, 3% of the total deficit. And if you think that money will be spent for social programs or to help anyone, or to lower the deficit, well dream on. Taxing the rich is no more than a cynical ploy to maintain a populist stance and appeal to the uninformed. "And so it goes".

Truth.

 

[Tom]

no there isn't enough money. taking all of the evil rich peoples money wouldn't cover the current deficet.

The rich aren't evil. But the rich did fine when the top tax tier was 39%.

And the issue isn't eliminating the current deficit. The issue is getting an agreement to cut the deficits by 3 -4 trillion over ten years.

And the obstacle to that happening, so far, is Republican refusal to be realistic about tax rates.

Going back to that rate gets us about 20-25% of where we need to be, that isn't the whole thing for sure, but refusing to do it makes it impossible to get as far as we need to go.

That's the point of my post, not just nonsense like your post that anyone is "evil" or that we have to eliminate the deficit in one year.

 

[bozack]

The right wing is all about division. They are not about inclusion. They will do or say anything to continue to divide the country.

So things like class warfare or their war on minorities, etc. That's all part of their same strategy. A war against Americans.

What they do is pray on people who are susceptible to identity politics and that's their electorate.

The left is just about polarization as the right is, to say otherwise is just laughable...

I personally don't think things have been as bad in this respect until the past four years and don't expect it to get any better in the next for...

While voters on the whole may come together for centrists or what they believe is the most centrist option, the purists of the parties are about as radical as they ever have been.