Eh? I was trying to condemn emotions, which is why I fail to acknowledge "life is what you make it" as a suitable answer to the root of human behavior. Perhaps I am thinking too hard, or maybe my aoe wall of text crit the forum for 9999999. BTW, my name was MonkeyFeces before the mods deemed it offensive.
Damn, will the roasting ever end? I am a moderately capable writer, but i was writing off the top of my head at like 4 AM pacific when I started the topic.
damn, you're not going to get ahead in life with that attitude. go, like find Jesus or something.
Viktor Frankl wrote a book titled "Man's Search for Meaning" which you should pick up. It was recommended to me by some very smart people.
Frankl was a psychiatrist, neurologist and a Holocaust survivor. Many people survived the Holocaust, right? Viktor had survived but his wife, his father, and his mother all perished. Just like that.
His sister left to Australia before it began so she was safe--the rest of his immediate family was wiped out. He survived five years inside concentration camps and, in it all, found reason to live.
I'm not big into Holocaust stories (I wasn't a fan of Schindler's List, for example) but this work is particularly helpful to many a persons in the journey to find some sort of meaning in life.
Give it a shot! It is a cheap paperback. Go to your local bookstore tonight and pick it up
Frankl was a psychiatrist, neurologist and a Holocaust survivor. Many people survived the Holocaust, right? Viktor had survived but his wife, his father, and his mother all perished. Just like that.
His sister left to Australia before it began so she was safe--the rest of his immediate family was wiped out. He survived five years inside concentration camps and, in it all, found reason to live.
I'm not big into Holocaust stories (I wasn't a fan of Schindler's List, for example) but this work is particularly helpful to many a persons in the journey to find some sort of meaning in life.
Give it a shot! It is a cheap paperback. Go to your local bookstore tonight and pick it up
CrazyHelloDeli
Platinum Member
- Jun 24, 2001
- 2,854
- 0
- 0
I'm going to assume you aren't being "emo". If you truly feel this way I can only suggest some Philosophy reading. It help tremendously in clearing the mind and allowing you to reevaluate your current path in life; as well as scrutinizing your own beliefs and determine whether you should hold said beliefs anymore. I suggest:
Nicomachean Ethics by Aristotle - Is all about the goal of happiness and how to achieve it. Also explains the relationship and symbiosis of selfishness and selflessness. You must lose the negative stigma you have about selfishness and realize that without self, you cannot be self-less.
Thomas Aquinas - Summa Theologiae
Rene Descartes - Discourse On Method, Meditations
G.W. Liebniz - Discourse on Metaphysics
John Stuart Mill - Utilitarianism, On Liberty
You will notice that all except Mill believed in "God", not necessarily the Christian God, that a supreme being exists and our purpose is realized through this being. The reason I suggest these is that, you are, in my humble estimation, at an age where you have dangerously realized that you can think and reason to an extent beyond the everyman. Descartes mentions this danger explicitly, as being a point of no return where you can easily lose yourself. Many will say that I should recommend more of the Contemporary philosophers, such a Nietzsche and Sartre, but you grasp many of the points these two put forth, but without perspective to temper your mind.
Nicomachean Ethics by Aristotle - Is all about the goal of happiness and how to achieve it. Also explains the relationship and symbiosis of selfishness and selflessness. You must lose the negative stigma you have about selfishness and realize that without self, you cannot be self-less.
Thomas Aquinas - Summa Theologiae
Rene Descartes - Discourse On Method, Meditations
G.W. Liebniz - Discourse on Metaphysics
John Stuart Mill - Utilitarianism, On Liberty
You will notice that all except Mill believed in "God", not necessarily the Christian God, that a supreme being exists and our purpose is realized through this being. The reason I suggest these is that, you are, in my humble estimation, at an age where you have dangerously realized that you can think and reason to an extent beyond the everyman. Descartes mentions this danger explicitly, as being a point of no return where you can easily lose yourself. Many will say that I should recommend more of the Contemporary philosophers, such a Nietzsche and Sartre, but you grasp many of the points these two put forth, but without perspective to temper your mind.
Can you state which of these works is most contrary to nihilism? What seems to make the most sense right now is the idea that our world is filled with no purpose and that every human work, action, or inaction is the result of one wanting to fill the void (basically everything is done in ignorance).
So the basis of your unhappiness seems to lie in your belief that no matter what you do, the root of that action can be traced back to some need to "fill the void" and is altogether pointless, a waste of time.
With this logic you are saying that life is a waste of time.
What is waste? What is a void? Is it that we are trying to fill the void, or is it that we are expanding upon something real without knowing what that something actually is? I know you agree with the former, but maybe instead of jumping into nihilist texts you just expand your own knowledge of what this thing called life is all about, or at least of what people have guessed it is all about, by seeing other points of view.
Assuming everything is pointless, and the general consesus is that successful socialization equals happiness, what is that to you? In that case you are simply a machine operating alongside other machines until you break down one day. The only thing you know for sure is that chemicals in your brain get released to pleasure your senses, and your form of happiness may simply end up being pleasing those senses. Whether that be with successful socialization, drinking beer all day, surfing on the weekends, it is different for everyone. But pointless or not you've got many years ahead of you an you may as well make the machine feel good, even if thats not what you call happiness.
With this logic you are saying that life is a waste of time.
What is waste? What is a void? Is it that we are trying to fill the void, or is it that we are expanding upon something real without knowing what that something actually is? I know you agree with the former, but maybe instead of jumping into nihilist texts you just expand your own knowledge of what this thing called life is all about, or at least of what people have guessed it is all about, by seeing other points of view.
Assuming everything is pointless, and the general consesus is that successful socialization equals happiness, what is that to you? In that case you are simply a machine operating alongside other machines until you break down one day. The only thing you know for sure is that chemicals in your brain get released to pleasure your senses, and your form of happiness may simply end up being pleasing those senses. Whether that be with successful socialization, drinking beer all day, surfing on the weekends, it is different for everyone. But pointless or not you've got many years ahead of you an you may as well make the machine feel good, even if thats not what you call happiness.
meltdown75
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2004
- 37,548
- 7
- 81
Sounds like you are applying emotions to situations you haven't even encountered yet. Most of your post(s) sound like thoughts on hypothetical situations you have played out in your mind.
It's somewhat pointless to pontificate on life's meaning when you're so early on in the journey. Do yourself a favour and live a little. Spend less time thinking about the outcomes and desires, just live your life. There's no set pattern. If you want to be different, fine. If you want your goal to be different than others, fine. Your goal can be happiness, sadness, or anywhere in between.
No one is holding you back from doing anything you want to do. You should be able to garner some sense of achievement or joy, to whatever ends you deem necessary. I sense a lot of loathing for the "traditional" way of life. So be original, do your thing. It's a free world, knock yourself out.
It's somewhat pointless to pontificate on life's meaning when you're so early on in the journey. Do yourself a favour and live a little. Spend less time thinking about the outcomes and desires, just live your life. There's no set pattern. If you want to be different, fine. If you want your goal to be different than others, fine. Your goal can be happiness, sadness, or anywhere in between.
No one is holding you back from doing anything you want to do. You should be able to garner some sense of achievement or joy, to whatever ends you deem necessary. I sense a lot of loathing for the "traditional" way of life. So be original, do your thing. It's a free world, knock yourself out.
Not often do I bite on such topics, and this is probably some dumb parody thread, but what the heck...
Originally posted by: MonkeyFaces
"...In successful socialization, what is really gained? Is it the satisfaction that all of your positive attributes gratify your ego and reaffirm your self worth the ultimate desirable outcome?..."
I could easily take a different stance to this and propose that "successful socialization" has nothing at all to do with the positive attributes that gratify ego and reaffirm self worth. It seems to me this only applies to extroverted people who live their lives caring too much about what others think of them.
"...Naturally you would turn to an alternative that suits what you excel in. What if you no longer derive pleasure from what you excel in because you realize it's just another way of reaffirming your self worth? Aren't all the positive attributes we desire and envy just an individual's familiarity and affinity for a particular task? What if I no longer want to seek satisfaction from competing with others just because I am better suited at something? ..."
You're talking about SUCCESS here. Although, this is the vision of success we're often lead to believe in, reality can be a little different. You can excel in something, have a natural familiarity and affinity for it, compete with others over it, and outperform them, yet still not succeed. (E.g. starving artists) Unfortunately, only being good at something does not guarantee fortune and fame, and neither of those guarantee happiness. The continuous struggle to gain more of those things and outweigh your own previous measures of success, that's DRIVE. If you think you've "made it", you're just not trying hard enough.
"...I cannot designate what will make me happy because I am bored and already take satisfaction in identifying the components, methods, and general outcome of every possible pursuit of happiness."
Here's my take on it, happiness (or success) is not something you have or don't have. It's not like an on/off switch. It happens in degrees. If you aren't happy or satisfied with your current situation, think of how you could really not be happy or your situation could be really worse. You rationalize and then set out to step to a different level higher than the one you're at now. In the end you never really get "there", you just go one step higher than where you were previously. Sometimes, you have to temporarily step down to step upwards along an alternate path. The more you have, the more you want. That never-ending drive is what it's all about...
Just let it come to you, you'll get there...
Anyone care to weigh in?
Originally posted by: MonkeyFaces
"...In successful socialization, what is really gained? Is it the satisfaction that all of your positive attributes gratify your ego and reaffirm your self worth the ultimate desirable outcome?..."
I could easily take a different stance to this and propose that "successful socialization" has nothing at all to do with the positive attributes that gratify ego and reaffirm self worth. It seems to me this only applies to extroverted people who live their lives caring too much about what others think of them.
"...Naturally you would turn to an alternative that suits what you excel in. What if you no longer derive pleasure from what you excel in because you realize it's just another way of reaffirming your self worth? Aren't all the positive attributes we desire and envy just an individual's familiarity and affinity for a particular task? What if I no longer want to seek satisfaction from competing with others just because I am better suited at something? ..."
You're talking about SUCCESS here. Although, this is the vision of success we're often lead to believe in, reality can be a little different. You can excel in something, have a natural familiarity and affinity for it, compete with others over it, and outperform them, yet still not succeed. (E.g. starving artists) Unfortunately, only being good at something does not guarantee fortune and fame, and neither of those guarantee happiness. The continuous struggle to gain more of those things and outweigh your own previous measures of success, that's DRIVE. If you think you've "made it", you're just not trying hard enough.
"...I cannot designate what will make me happy because I am bored and already take satisfaction in identifying the components, methods, and general outcome of every possible pursuit of happiness."
Here's my take on it, happiness (or success) is not something you have or don't have. It's not like an on/off switch. It happens in degrees. If you aren't happy or satisfied with your current situation, think of how you could really not be happy or your situation could be really worse. You rationalize and then set out to step to a different level higher than the one you're at now. In the end you never really get "there", you just go one step higher than where you were previously. Sometimes, you have to temporarily step down to step upwards along an alternate path. The more you have, the more you want. That never-ending drive is what it's all about...
Just let it come to you, you'll get there...
Anyone care to weigh in?
Good point. I think to varying degrees all of us have our self worth reaffirmed by socialization, but it is not the driving force for many people's happiness. Those who seek socialization as a path to success may find themselves clinging on to empty relationships with others that may constantly destroy their feeling of self worth. Those who acknowledge socialization as part of happiness, but not the main goal, may be more likely to gain valuable relationships by being more willing to cut off ties with those friendships that go nowhere or are destructive.
What if "making it" is the end goal that achieves happiness? What if drive itself is the source of unhappiness? Now you could argue that everyone has some sort of a drive, even if that drive is to lay on their butt the rest of their life. But having a specific skill and being in this "continuous struggle," I think those are more attitudes of a career man than of human beings as a whole trying to find happiness. Those who think they've made it may have made it, if thats what makes them content with life. Are you telling me a man living in a huge house in the Bahamas, as he as always dreamed of, is now not trying hard enough as he sits on the porch and drinks a Martini?
Again you sound like a career man, not people as a whole. "The more you have, the more you want" is not true of everybody. I agree that happiness comes in degrees, and that our itendency is to analyze our situation every now and again to set out and improve our lives.
ultimatebob
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2001
- 25,134
- 2,450
- 126
Well, he's right of course... Life is meaningless for most people. Most of us will spend over twenty years of our lives getting an education, only to end up working for some big evil corporation what will make a few top managers and stockholders rich while giving you only enough to survive and buy a few meager possessions to play with. If your lucky, maybe you'll end up getting married and having kids, only to doom them to the same dismal white-collar fate as yourself.
There, that oughta cheer him up! Nothing like taking what little glimmer of hope that young disaffected college students might have, and then snuff it out.
There, that oughta cheer him up! Nothing like taking what little glimmer of hope that young disaffected college students might have, and then snuff it out.
I think what the OP really needs is some direction.
Look, you get out of life what you put into it.
If you want to make your self happy, find a goal and attempt to achieve it. Or you could attempt to gain critical acclaim and make a name for your self, do something that will be remembered for generations to come, whether it is an invention or being a tyrant, just find a way to either make your self known or happy.
Look, you get out of life what you put into it.
If you want to make your self happy, find a goal and attempt to achieve it. Or you could attempt to gain critical acclaim and make a name for your self, do something that will be remembered for generations to come, whether it is an invention or being a tyrant, just find a way to either make your self known or happy.
DainBramaged
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2003
- 23,454
- 41
- 91
I opened the thread, saw the BLOCK of text, and posted this. My next move is to hit the back button.
Hmm... Interesting interpretation and good advice. I wasn't really thinking of only material things, but I can see how it comes off that way. I guess I don't understand how anyone can be fully "satisfied". There's always something else. The example of the guy in the Bahamas; maybe he wants a wife to share it all with, or kids to pass it all on to, or maybe he's not satisfied spiritually. Or, what if he wants others to share in his good fortune? There's always global peace and prosperity to work for. See what I mean about always being something else? Is my perspective just skewed?
Real advice:
Join the Peace Corps. If you can't find some way of making your life more meaningful, make someone else's life better. It will truly add perspective to your existence, then maybe college will be something you want to do, or maybe not. You'd be surprised at how much enjoyment you can experience volunteering even a couple of hours a week to some cause that needs warm bodies.
Join the Peace Corps. If you can't find some way of making your life more meaningful, make someone else's life better. It will truly add perspective to your existence, then maybe college will be something you want to do, or maybe not. You'd be surprised at how much enjoyment you can experience volunteering even a couple of hours a week to some cause that needs warm bodies.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 24K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter