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Help me solve this problem!

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rikadik

Senior member
Whilst sat using my laptop in the living room, I just bet with my friend that with the internet in front of me I could answer any question he asked. The question he asked:

How big would an indian elephant's ears have to be to generate enough lift by flapping them to fly?

So I need to find this out. And I have an idea how... if you work out the weight of an average house fly, and the surface area of its wings, then apply that proportionately to the weight of an indian elephant, I could work out how big the ears would have to be. For simplicity, I'm assuming the elephant would beat its ears at the same rate as the fly.

Trouble is I cant find the information needed, so help!

Cheers!
 
Originally posted by: rikadik
Whilst sat using my laptop in the living room, I just bet with my friend that with the internet in front of me I could answer any question he asked. The question he asked:

How big would an indian elephant's ears have to be to generate enough lift by flapping them to fly?

So I need to find this out. And I have an idea how... if you work out the weight of an average house fly, and the surface area of its wings, then apply that proportionately to the weight of an indian elephant, I could work out how big the ears would have to be. For simplicity, I'm assuming the elephant would beat its ears at the same rate as the fly.

Trouble is I cant find the information needed, so help!

Cheers!
Click to expand...


You cannot work out the problem with the information provided. Obviously an elephant's ears couldn't flap at the frequency that a fly's wings can, so they'll generate less lift. Also the elephant doesn't have the muscles in its ears to flap its ears with any kind of force. And if it did have huge muscles to flap its ears, it wouldn't be an elephant anymore.

If speed wasn't a factor, then you could make a fly's wings generate enough lift to lift the elephant. The fly would just have to flap them a million times as fast.
 
Originally posted by: rikadik
... if you work out the weight of an average house fly, and the surface area of its wings, then apply that proportionately to the weight of an indian elephant, I could work out how big the ears would have to be. ...
Click to expand...
An elephant's ears and a flies' wings are made of different material and may be shaped differently. It doesn't seem that the two are relatable (sp) with any accuracy.

 
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: rikadik
Whilst sat using my laptop in the living room, I just bet with my friend that with the internet in front of me I could answer any question he asked. The question he asked:

How big would an indian elephant's ears have to be to generate enough lift by flapping them to fly?

So I need to find this out. And I have an idea how... if you work out the weight of an average house fly, and the surface area of its wings, then apply that proportionately to the weight of an indian elephant, I could work out how big the ears would have to be. For simplicity, I'm assuming the elephant would beat its ears at the same rate as the fly.

Trouble is I cant find the information needed, so help!

Cheers!
Click to expand...


You cannot work out the problem with the information provided. Obviously an elephant's ears couldn't flap at the frequency that a fly's wings can, so they'll generate less lift. Also the elephant doesn't have the muscles in its ears to flap its ears with any kind of force. And if it did have huge muscles to flap its ears, it wouldn't be an elephant anymore.

If speed wasn't a factor, then you could make a fly's wings generate enough lift to lift the elephant. The fly would just have to flap them a million times as fast.
Click to expand...

So we should genetically modify the elephant? That's unethical! You disgust me. 😛
 
Originally posted by: rikadik
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: rikadik
Whilst sat using my laptop in the living room, I just bet with my friend that with the internet in front of me I could answer any question he asked. The question he asked:

How big would an indian elephant's ears have to be to generate enough lift by flapping them to fly?

So I need to find this out. And I have an idea how... if you work out the weight of an average house fly, and the surface area of its wings, then apply that proportionately to the weight of an indian elephant, I could work out how big the ears would have to be. For simplicity, I'm assuming the elephant would beat its ears at the same rate as the fly.

Trouble is I cant find the information needed, so help!

Cheers!
Click to expand...


You cannot work out the problem with the information provided. Obviously an elephant's ears couldn't flap at the frequency that a fly's wings can, so they'll generate less lift. Also the elephant doesn't have the muscles in its ears to flap its ears with any kind of force. And if it did have huge muscles to flap its ears, it wouldn't be an elephant anymore.

If speed wasn't a factor, then you could make a fly's wings generate enough lift to lift the elephant. The fly would just have to flap them a million times as fast.
Click to expand...

So we should genetically modify the elephant? That's unethical! You disgust me. 😛
Click to expand...

No.. you can ask a humming bird to do an elephant.. and then wait for the kid to be born. 🙂
 
put the elephant into an experimental transportal machine along with a fly
they'll be genetically melded in the transfer and you'll end up with a elefly after a few days
 
Originally posted by: FoBoT
put the elephant into an experimental transportal machine along with a fly
they'll be genetically melded in the transfer and you'll end up with a elefly after a few days
Click to expand...


What if you end up with a flelephant instead?
 
Originally posted by: maximus maximus
Originally posted by: rikadik
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: rikadik
Whilst sat using my laptop in the living room, I just bet with my friend that with the internet in front of me I could answer any question he asked. The question he asked:

How big would an indian elephant's ears have to be to generate enough lift by flapping them to fly?

So I need to find this out. And I have an idea how... if you work out the weight of an average house fly, and the surface area of its wings, then apply that proportionately to the weight of an indian elephant, I could work out how big the ears would have to be. For simplicity, I'm assuming the elephant would beat its ears at the same rate as the fly.

Trouble is I cant find the information needed, so help!

Cheers!
Click to expand...


You cannot work out the problem with the information provided. Obviously an elephant's ears couldn't flap at the frequency that a fly's wings can, so they'll generate less lift. Also the elephant doesn't have the muscles in its ears to flap its ears with any kind of force. And if it did have huge muscles to flap its ears, it wouldn't be an elephant anymore.

If speed wasn't a factor, then you could make a fly's wings generate enough lift to lift the elephant. The fly would just have to flap them a million times as fast.
Click to expand...

So we should genetically modify the elephant? That's unethical! You disgust me. 😛
Click to expand...

No.. you can ask a humming bird to do an elephant.. and then wait for the kid to be born. 🙂
Click to expand...

Ah that could work. But I've never asked a hummingbird to mate something. Well not an elephant at any rate. I wouldn't really know how to approach the situation.
 
Originally posted by: rikadik
Originally posted by: maximus maximus
Originally posted by: rikadik
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: rikadik
Whilst sat using my laptop in the living room, I just bet with my friend that with the internet in front of me I could answer any question he asked. The question he asked:

How big would an indian elephant's ears have to be to generate enough lift by flapping them to fly?

So I need to find this out. And I have an idea how... if you work out the weight of an average house fly, and the surface area of its wings, then apply that proportionately to the weight of an indian elephant, I could work out how big the ears would have to be. For simplicity, I'm assuming the elephant would beat its ears at the same rate as the fly.

Trouble is I cant find the information needed, so help!

Cheers!
Click to expand...


You cannot work out the problem with the information provided. Obviously an elephant's ears couldn't flap at the frequency that a fly's wings can, so they'll generate less lift. Also the elephant doesn't have the muscles in its ears to flap its ears with any kind of force. And if it did have huge muscles to flap its ears, it wouldn't be an elephant anymore.

If speed wasn't a factor, then you could make a fly's wings generate enough lift to lift the elephant. The fly would just have to flap them a million times as fast.
Click to expand...

So we should genetically modify the elephant? That's unethical! You disgust me. 😛
Click to expand...

No.. you can ask a humming bird to do an elephant.. and then wait for the kid to be born. 🙂
Click to expand...

Ah that could work. But I've never asked a hummingbird to mate something. Well not an elephant at any rate. I wouldn't really know how to approach the situation.
Click to expand...


Just spike the nectar with tequila. It'll do it, trust me.
 
Its impossible, an elephants ears were not made to generate lift. You don't need the internet to figure that one out.
 
Originally posted by: randay
Its impossible, an elephants ears were not made to generate lift. You don't need the internet to figure that one out.
Click to expand...

So its a trick question? Damn... the hummingbirds just done a tequila slammer...
 
Originally posted by: rikadik
Originally posted by: randay
Its impossible, an elephants ears were not made to generate lift. You don't need the internet to figure that one out.
Click to expand...

So its a trick question? Damn... the hummingbirds just done a tequila slammer...
Click to expand...

If an elephant was on a conveyur belt and the belt matches the speed of the elephant but in reverse, can the elephant take off?
 
Originally posted by: randay
Originally posted by: rikadik
Originally posted by: randay
Its impossible, an elephants ears were not made to generate lift. You don't need the internet to figure that one out.
Click to expand...

So its a trick question? Damn... the hummingbirds just done a tequila slammer...
Click to expand...

If an elephant was on a conveyur belt and the belt matches the speed of the elephant but in reverse, can the elephant take off?
Click to expand...

Hahaha. I remember that. I'm sure it had something to do with 0.88888888888888.
 
Flys dont fly like you think. Look up the work of michael dickinson. He's at berkeley (or at least he was when i was there, actually it looks like he might be at caltech now). The physics of fly flight are unique.
 
You're trying to scale up based on surface area?
Suppose an elephant is 1000 times the length of a fly. Then, if it was proportional, the surface area of its wings would be 1 million times as great. However, mass goes up with the cube; the elephant would be 1 billion times as heavy. So, if lift is proportional to surface area, you're going to need ears 1000 times bigger than when you scale up.

oh, and btw, it's impossible.
 
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