Help me please! Convince my dad....(PSU related)

[Rebel7254]

that 430w power supply is not too much overkill for:

P4 2.8 GHz (possibly AMD 3000+, haven't decided yet)
512 MB DDR PC3200 RAM
Hercules 3D Prophet Radeon 9700 Pro
Maxtor 60 GB 7200 RPM HDD
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz
Samsung CD/DVD ROM
LG CD-RW/CD-ROM 40x12x40x
HP printer (just really a standard printer)
Visioneer Scanner USB

Well, that's all the power players I can think of. The techs that work for him say the Antec Truepower 430w PSU I wanna order is major overkill. Right now I'm using a 300w.....the specs listed above will be my upgrade in the spring (see my sig for current specs). However, I'm getting the R9700 Pro next week so I thought I should go ahead and upgrade the power supply as well since it uses a good bit of power. Now from what I've seen and read here and at other hardware forums, trying to use a 300w, or really even a 350w PSU for the above specs is asking for trouble.

As proof that I'm right, I'd like everyone's imput on why I'm not overshooting too much with 430w. Or if you agree with my dad's techs, please say so. I'd like as many opinions as possible on this, and please support your reasoning. I'm counting on you all!

Thanks in advance


Reb

 

[LED]

Well Reb with what you listed I would have to agree with your Pop's Techs... a quality 300wt PSU would handle it easily...upgrading in the future depending what it is would is another story

 

[BigFatCow]

i have an 2000 xp
512mb ram
3 cdrom drives
1 40 gig 7200rpm hd
sb live 5.1
nic
geforce 2 ti 200
floppy

all on a generic 300 watt PSU running stable


i also have a 1600 xp
256mb ram
1 cdrom
hercules muse lt sound card
5 hds: (80 gig 7200 rpm, 60 gig 5400 rpm, (2) 30 gig 5400 rpm, 40 gig 5400rpm)
1 raid card
geforce 2

all on a K7s5a with a generic 300 watt PSU running stable...

 

[Rebel7254]

Hmmm, well I don't like the way this is going. I could have sworn it was here that I was told by many people that 300w wouldn't be enough even for my current specs with a R9700 Pro. Oh well......keep 'em comin'.

 

[mechBgon]

If your dad were getting a Chevy Suburban to tow a smallish boat, would he opt for the towing package and bigger engine/stronger tranny, in case he got a bigger boat down the road? Or would he say "the heck with that, I'd trade in my stock Suburban for a beefier Suburban if I got a 10000-pound boat, no sense planning ahead when I'm not sure what my future needs will be."

An Antec PSU has a three-year warranty and probably a 5-year+ lifespan, so I don't think it's necessarily a waste if you want to re-use it later. Think where PSU's were three years ago compared to today. The cheapest way to buy, is to buy the right thing the first time, right?

I believe the bigger capacitors can also help ride you across momentary sags in utility power (do your lights dim when the dishwasher, dryer or furnace switch on?). If you do get a 300W unit, make it a decent brand like LED says. I've seen several people having difficulties with R9500Pro and R9700Pro despite having budget-priced 350W PSUs.

 

[MisterMe]

Yep - seems like most people tend to swear you need twice the power that you might actually need in reality...it's one of the big myths that is constantly being perpetuated. It's like a viscious circle - you read here that you need 430 watts, you go tell your buddies, and they end up posting this misinformaion as if it were absolute fact. It's now gospel. Another guy unsure of the reqs reads the post and is transformed into a perpetuator. Sure 430 will do the trick quite nicely and more than enough power is never a bad thing but...Go through your system, piece by piece, do some due diligence and see if you can make a list of the max wattage used by each device...add them up and you might finally be able to put your concerns to bed...

 

[arcenite]

I personally feel if money is an option, then yes don't overrate yourself. If you have a little extra money and want to plan to upgrade in the future, then that's another story.. Why buy a barely-acceptable 300w PSU if you're planning to upgrade in 6 months...?

Bill

 

[Wolfsraider]

here is my take on it.

i had a generic 350 watt power supply in mine when i first built it

specs when i built it were:

p-4 2.8
512 ddr corsair xms 3200
epox 4g4a+ mobo
ibm 36z15 15000 rpm hdd
lsi controller card
ati 9700 pro
dvd
cdrw
using on-board sound
using on-board lan

after 8 weeks my power supply blew.it took the 400.00 9700 with it(luckily that was all the damage)

guess which power supply i am using now? yes sir the antec 430 true power and not a glitch one so far.

i had a turbolink 320 watt i could have swapped into it,but compared to losing the 600+ processor and the 300.00 ram or the 400.00 video card ....90.00 for the psu was a great way to give me peace of mind

your dad is right in that a quality power supply may be enough.but my power supply is now like insurance to me.

mike

 

[Adul]

that is all you are running? pfft i had more power drawing on my system then that on a 300 watt power supply.

i had 3 HD 1 CD ROM 1 CD-RW 1 DVD rom. athlon 1.4 GHZ overclock to 1.533 Ghz geforce GTS TB SC, SCSI card, 2 nics 4 case fans

all running happily in my system

granted i have a nice Antex 300 Watt PS. Now has long has your PS is a quality one, it will more then do, if it is a cheap one then look at a truepower 330 or a 380 at most.

 

[chizow]

Tell him you'll pay the difference. If its your money to begin with, why should he care?

Tell him this: When there is a doubt, leave no doubt. Don't skimp on a PSU. The extra $20-30 for peace of mind is worth even 10 minutes of second-guessing your brand new purchase or risking the 300W PSU not having enough power. Your brand-spankin new rig won't do you much good if it can't POST.

I'm surprised your Dad is pushing back on this one; most Dad-types are all about excessive amounts of power for minimalist tasks (see: power tools, yard machinery like ride-on mowers, snowblowers, etc.)

Chiz

 

[Ryan]

Look at my rig - I'm running of a 250w PSU

BTW - my PSU was made by Gateway

 

[CraigRT]

I dunno man it's a tough call. you can get the 300 and if it turns out to not work, you can say to your dad HAH i told you so!
but you can also get the 430 and he'll say look it works fine... i bet the freaking other one woulda been just fine.. and he'll be up set cause you have no way of proving that the other one woulda been enough.

personally, i would rather go with the higher wattage.. that's a badass system.. you dont' want a PSU giving up and taking hardware with it as some of the others have said.. that's absolutely BAD.

I vote for the 430 for future upgradeability and good piece of mind.

 

[Wolfsraider]

Originally posted by: Adul
that is all you are running? pfft i had more power drawing on my system then that on a 300 watt power supply.

i had 3 HD 1 CD ROM 1 CD-RW 1 DVD rom. athlon 1.4 GHZ overclock to 1.533 Ghz geforce GTS TB SC, SCSI card, 2 nics 4 case fans

all running happily in my system

granted i have a nice Antex 300 Watt PS. Now has long has your PS is a quality one, it will more then do, if it is a cheap one then look at a truepower 330 or a 380 at most.

i agree also

look at this:

here


a quality 300 watt psu is highly recommended

 

[Duvie]

That needs to be a quality 300watt.....I have been hearing the 2.8ghz and greater power supplies have been requiring power supplies deliver 18+_ amps on the 12v line and sorry but very few 300 watters will have that as it would only leave 100 watss for the 3.3v and 5v rails....

I think were the real need for the 430 would be if you planned on taking this 2.8ghz to 3.2-32.4ghz and were going to run vcore up to 1.65-1.7v....I am sure a 300watt would start stumbling, though that is not to say it couldn't do it. I went to my 430 from my 350 antec and the rails are high and have much smaller idle to vcore swings.

An overclocker this would be a no-brainer but if dad is satisfied with "should be good enough" and "For what I have NOW this fine" then let him get what he wants....

I know tons of techs and surprising I amazed at how little they really know and understand...

 

[Adul]

18 amps * 12 volts = 216 watts

most of the power for CPU are still drawn from the 3.3 volt rail with some help from the 12 volt rail




Max power draw is a P4 3.03 Ghz which is just a tad over 100 watts at peak.

Typical Hard drive is 12 watts or so

not sure what DVD and CD-ROM suck, but itn't is that much.

 

[Rebel7254]

Well my dad is only bucking because the techs over there told him all this stuff. I really doubt if any of you will recall, but several months ago I posted here saying that one of his techs said that the C-Media sound integrated with my Asus A7V333 mobo was better than a Santa Cruz sound card. It was really a post similiar to this one, to get reassurance that I was right in thinking the Santa Cruz kicks the hell out of the onboard sound. I got about 20 replies saying the guy was a moron. So I really have to question the knowledge of these techs.

 

[DaTT]

I would go with the extra Wattage. My friend bought himself a G4 Ti4600 that wouldn't work with his 350W. He has since purchased a 465W and no problems to report.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Rebel7254
Well my dad is only bucking because the techs over there told him all this stuff. I really doubt if any of you will recall, but several months ago I posted here saying that one of his techs said that the C-Media sound integrated with my Asus A7V333 mobo was better than a Santa Cruz sound card. It was really a post similiar to this one, to get reassurance that I was right in thinking the Santa Cruz kicks the hell out of the onboard sound. I got about 20 replies saying the guy was a moron. So I really have to question the knowledge of these techs.

Its not necessarily their knowledge, its their frame of mind/reference. These guys are used to dealing with rigs that run Excel, Outlook/Lotus Notes, Word, IE, AIM, WinAmp, RealPlayer etc. for all the desk jockeys out there in the real world. They'd probably tell you an nForce2 IGP board with a GF4MX (OMG its a GF4, too fast!!! :Q) is overkill for your video card, but its OK, b/c its free. They probably don't know any better b/c they don't know whats out there and have no need to find out.

Chiz

 

[tbates757]

Originally posted by: Rebel7254
Hmmm, well I don't like the way this is going. I could have sworn it was here that I was told by many people that 300w wouldn't be enough even for my current specs with a R9700 Pro. Oh well......keep 'em comin'.

If it is a high quality 300W PSU, then there is no reason to upgrade. Have you seen those Shuttle Small Form Factor PC's? They run all the components you have listed there (minus one optical drive) with a 220W power supply! Yes, highend p4, 512mb, and 9700 pro on 220w, so 430w is overkill.

 

[Rebel7254]

My current PSU is a generic 320w. One of the main selling points for me on the Antec TruePower is it is QUIET....at least according to all the reviews I've read. This thing is pretty loud. You can pretty much hear whether the computer is on all through the house (which isn't little).

 

[amdskip]

If you have the cash, I'd go for it but its not necessarily a real requirement. It's true though that you don't wanna hook up all this expensive equipment to an el cheap power supply.

 

[tbates757]

Well, it seems you are pretty set on buying a new power supply, so why not just go for it.

 

[bigshooter]

I have an Athlon XP 1600+, a dvd rom, a 32x cd burner, three 7200 rpm hard drives, and a geforce 3 ti200 running off a 330W enermax power supply. I've put a ti4600 and a radeon 9700 pro in and have had no problems.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Rebel7254
Hmmm, well I don't like the way this is going. I could have sworn it was here that I was told by many people that 300w wouldn't be enough even for my current specs with a R9700 Pro. Oh well......keep 'em comin'.

Ok, I'll take your side ...kinda. Tell yer dad this:

While your 300 Watt PSU really would work, a new power supply wouldn't be a bad idea. Like monitors, a good PSU is one that will go through several computers before it needs replaced. Also troubleshooting power issues is IMHO one of the toughest things to do since it manifests itself as problems with other components. Also, the key words here are "cheap 300w" and "good 430w". It is quite possible that "cheap" PSU might not handle the load depending on how the wattage is divided up on the 12, 5 & 3 V Lines. I'm also assuming your new PSU would help with the cooling of that system.

My argument would be: I'm putting all brand new stuff in and I would simply like a PSU that I have NO doubts about and that will last for years to come.

 

[Wingznut]

Sorry Rebel... Quality is more important than quantity.

I have a 250w Lite-on (pulled from an HP Vectra PC) running my PC:

• P4-2.8ghz
• 512mb PC2700
• GF4 ti4200
• 2 WD hd's
• SB Audigy
• HP DVD
• HP burner
• HP Printer
• Visioneer Scanner
• etc...

And I have had absolutely no problems. Spending money on a huge PS is one of the more overrated topics on this msg board, imho.