Help me pick a motherboard!

[Orrhias]

I've narrowed down my choices of motherboards to two:
Asus M5A78L-M/USB3
MSI 760GM-P21 (FX)
Both seem equally matched to me, so rather than flipping a coin, I'd like opinions on which you think I should choose. It will be paired with an AMD FX-4300 (95W), if that matters.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Do you already own that CPU? If not, is it free, or nearly free?

Because, at this point, that's a fairly poor choice for a CPU and platform.

What are your need? Gaming? Web browsing? Engineering?

 

[lehtv]

Even if you already own the CPU or are getting it for very cheap, I'd rather just sell it and buy Intel i3-6100, or wait for AMD Zen. FX series has been more or less a bad buy since... well, since it first came out 5 years ago.

 

[lukart]

I would get a i3 CPU, pair with a B150 Hyper motherboard and overclock to gain extra performance.

 

[Orrhias]

News to me as I checked the reviews, both pro and buyers. Whats wrong with it? I'm doing a pfSense router on a budget of $300, and got no intention of buying a dinky Intel 2-core (2GHz or slower), which is all I could afford.

 

[XavierMace]

What are you doing for network connectivity since that board only has one NIC on it?

 

[crashtech]

News to me as I checked the reviews, both pro and buyers. Whats wrong with it? I'm doing a pfSense router on a budget of $300, and got no intention of buying a dinky Intel 2-core (2GHz or slower), which is all I could afford.

I'd enjoy being able to take a look at those reviews to be better able to converse with you about your perceived needs. As far as calling dual-core CPUs dinky, you should be aware that the FX-4300 is a two-module CPU, and that while each module contains two partial CPU cores, it's not really a true quad core like the older AMD 10h Stars CPUs like Phenom II, etc. In fact, the fastest of the Phenom II CPUs are almost on par with the FX-4300. So in a way, the CPU you have picked could be characterized as a "dinky" 2-module CPU. If you are set on a true quad core, and since you don't mind using older technology (FX-4300 is from 2012) I would suggest a Haswell (2013) platform with a true quad core. Here's a list of core components that doesn't exceed $300:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/crashtech/saved/vy6rHx

Personally I would pair a new motherboard with a used CPU, used CPUs are a very safe buy and will save you quite a bit of money.

Anandtech Bench does not have an i5-4570 in their database but a 4570S, which runs about 300MHz slower at full load to reduce TDP, but as you can see from the benchmarks, it is by far the superior performer, and perhaps even a better fit for your purpose.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1368?vs=700

If you are dead set on AMD despite the advice you've been given, it might be best to tide yourself over with a used CPU/mobo combo until the debut of Zen.

 

[Orrhias]

I'd enjoy being able to take a look at those reviews to be better able to converse with you about your perceived needs. As far as calling dual-core CPUs dinky, you should be aware that the FX-4300 is a two-module CPU, and that while each module contains two partial CPU cores, it's not really a true quad core like the older AMD 10h Stars CPUs like Phenom II, etc. In fact, the fastest of the Phenom II CPUs are almost on par with the FX-4300. So in a way, the CPU you have picked could be characterized as a "dinky" 2-module CPU. If you are set on a true quad core, and since you don't mind using older technology (FX-4300 is from 2012) I would suggest a Haswell (2013) platform with a true quad core. Here's a list of core components that doesn't exceed $300:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/crashtech/saved/vy6rHx

Personally I would pair a new motherboard with a used CPU, used CPUs are a very safe buy and will save you quite a bit of money.

Anandtech Bench does not have an i5-4570 in their database but a 4570S, which runs about 300MHz slower at full load to reduce TDP, but as you can see from the benchmarks, it is by far the superior performer, and perhaps even a better fit for your purpose.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1368?vs=700

If you are dead set on AMD despite the advice you've been given, it might be best to tide yourself over with a used CPU/mobo combo until the debut of Zen.

Well, I've pretty much finished picking parts for this AMD build, but your argument is compelling enough for me to want to do an Intel version (on paper) to be able to better compare the two, and decide which is better. Before I put any time into this, I do need a little reassuring that a two-core i3 CPU will definitely get me a router that will do gigabit throughput (or very very near to it!). This is my first and foremost requirement.

I have done a small amount of research on Intel CPUs, and if I decide to move forward on this, these are the only ones I could afford, and still make the $300 cap:
Intel core i3-4150
Intel core i3-4160
Intel core i3-4170
So are any of these strong enough to satisfy my first and foremost requirement?

 

[Orrhias]

Do you already own that CPU? If not, is it free, or nearly free?

Because, at this point, that's a fairly poor choice for a CPU and platform.

What are your need? Gaming? Web browsing? Engineering?

No, the only component I actually have is An Intel dual-port NIC in my parts-bank. I am doing a custom-build router using pfSense.

 

[Orrhias]

Even if you already own the CPU or are getting it for very cheap, I'd rather just sell it and buy Intel i3-6100, or wait for AMD Zen. FX series has been more or less a bad buy since... well, since it first came out 5 years ago.

The price cap for this build is not much beyond $300, so an i3-6100 is too rich for my blood. I've listed the Intel CPUs I can afford elsewhere.

 

[crashtech]

If you are seeing recommendations that quad cores are needed for gigabit throughput, they are probably talking about prebuilt hardware routers with small, low power CPUs like Atoms. Sandy Bridge and up "big core" dual cores, especially the i3, can handle gigabit throughput just fine unless there are tons of users and heavy small-packet traffic.

Another point of comparison, this time pitting the low power, 35W i3-4130 against the 95W FX-4300:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1367?vs=700

Even at a much lower clock speed and TDP, the i3 is better with a few exceptions.

Crank up the clock speed and it's not even close, although the AMD does win one thing, 7-Zip, I think:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1197?vs=700

 

[Orrhias]

If you are seeing recommendations that quad cores are needed for gigabit throughput, they are probably talking about prebuilt hardware routers with small, low power CPUs like Atoms. Sandy Bridge and up "big core" dual cores, especially the i3, can handle gigabit throughput just fine unless there are tons of users and heavy small-packet traffic.

Another point of comparison, this time pitting the low power, 35W i3-4130 against the 95W FX-4300:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1367?vs=700

Even at a much lower clock speed and TDP, the i3 is better with a few exceptions.

Crank up the clock speed and it's not even close, although the AMD does win one thing, 7-Zip, I think:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1197?vs=700

I figured there was something rotten about all the conflicting info I was seeing, but couldn't figure out just what, so I decided to just go with the most powerful CPU I could afford, which was FX-4300. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up. Frankly I'd much prefer to do an Intel-based build, as pfSense and Intel seem to be BFFs...of course the total cost is a big factor, and Intel don't come cheap. I have been doing a bit more research on an Intel-based build, and these components look to be possible with a $300 budget.

CPUs:
Intel core i3-4130
core i3-4150
core i3-4160
core i3-4170

MOTHERBOARDS:
Gigabyte GA-B85M-DS3H-A
Asus H81M-C/CSM
H97M-E/CSM
MSI B85M-G43

Haven't gotten any further, but I do know I'd like to get an Intel SSD (probably 120GB), and either G.Skill or Crucial RAM (8GB).

I don't have any preference for the components above. All look to be in budget, so I'd like to hear opinions on these. The CPU choices are pretty much set, but I'll hear suggestions on other motherboards. Keep in mind these requirements:
1. Has to have at least one usable x4 to x16 PCIe slot for my Intel dual-port NIC.
2. Has to have VGA port for my monitor.
3. Has to have two PS/2 or two USB ports for my keyboard & mouse.
4. Has to have some form of onboard graphics or be able to use the graphics in the CPUs (i.e. I don't want to fool with a graphics card).
5. Has to have mostly good buyer reviews at Amazon, TigerDirect, etc. Mixed reviews is too much a gamble.

Postscript: Further research has eliminated the Asus 97M-E/CSM and MSI B85M-G43. SSDs are a choice between Intel series 530 or 535 (120GB). The RAM depends on which motherboard is chosen...I could use some help deciding between the Gigabyte and Asus. Also need suggestions on a CPU cooler that will work with core i3, fit a microATX case, and not block any PCIe or RAM slots.

 

[crashtech]

To meet or exceed your requirements, I would spec an ASRock H97M Pro4. I've used this board twice before successfully, though not for pfsense. It meets all your requirements, as well as having its own Intel NIC and 4 memory slots. It might be interesting to experiment with the onboard NIC to see if you can get better throughput by incorporating it into your setup. All the boards you selected have Realtek NICs, which are okay, just indicative of cost saving measures and not ideal for high utilization scenarios. ASRock's really been killing it lately with their value per dollar!

As for the CPU, the 4130 is usually the best value, but if you find a good deal on a faster one, go for it. They are all pretty close.

 

[iwajabitw]

Since the OP said this was to run pfsense with gigabit lan I'll add my .02. I am currently running Untangle firewall, paid version at home on a old Dell system that came with a Core2Duo. This was originally a Vista machine. All I added was some more ram for 4gigs total and another gigabit nic. It hosts about 30 different devices and never uses more than 25% of the CPU and half the ram. I don't run many of Untangles apps such as vpn, bandwith control, but all the security apps are on and logged. An i3 should be more than enough IMO.

 

[Chase_20]

would go with the msi board

 

[Orrhias]

After a lot of worry and thought, I decided to go with the Gigabyte. I may buy the Asus as a backup to add to my parts-bank for future use...not decided yet. Right now I'm too desperate to finish this router to think too far ahead. Thanks to all for your input!

 

[crashtech]

Glad you got it sorted, let us know how it turns out.

 

[tcsenter]

Since the OP said this was to run pfsense with gigabit lan I'll add my .02. I am currently running Untangle firewall, paid version at home on a old Dell system that came with a Core2Duo....An i3 should be more than enough IMO.

I was gonna say, Sandy/Ivy Bridge parts are cheap on Ebay as well as used/refurbed OEM LGA1155 mobos for them. Could have gotten a mobo for $35 and something like i5-3470s for $65 that would blow FX-4300 away.

Not sure OP will be happy with his mobo choice since IIRC inserting anything in PCI-E x16 PEG will usually disable integrated graphics? He wanted at least PCIE x4 for his GbE card.

 

[crashtech]

I've been able to run integrated and dGPU simultaneously on many boards, does that count?

 

[tcsenter]

I've been able to run integrated and dGPU simultaneously on many boards, does that count?

Where there was only a single PCI-E x16 (intended for graphics)?

 

[crashtech]

Where there was only a single PCI-E x16 (intended for graphics)?

Good question, I don't remember. Maybe not.

 

[tcsenter]

I was gonna say, Sandy/Ivy Bridge parts are cheap on Ebay as well as used/refurbed OEM LGA1155 mobos for them. Could have gotten a mobo for $35 and something like i5-3470s for $65 that would blow FX-4300 away.

Or heck, an entire PC:

HP Compaq 6300 Pro MT, Intel i5-3470 8GB RAM - $170.00 shipped (toss in SSD and NIC, use 500GB HDD as backup, voila!)

Or if you have low profile bracket for the Intel Dual NIC:

HP 6300 PRO SFF 4GB RAM Intel i5-3470 No HDD or OS - $125.00 shipped (add in SSD and another 4GB RAM)

Good question, I don't remember. Maybe not.

I mean, I believe it's technically supported since at least 1st or 2nd gen Core-i for Intel (not sure about AMD) but it seems not many mobo companies are implementing it when there is only a single PCI-E x16 slot on the board.

OK downloaded the user manual for a couple H81 and B85 boards. Looks like I was wrong both described BIOS option to keep IGP enabled when dGPU is inserted into PCI Express x16 slot.

 

[Orrhias]

I was gonna say, Sandy/Ivy Bridge parts are cheap on Ebay as well as used/refurbed OEM LGA1155 mobos for them. Could have gotten a mobo for $35 and something like i5-3470s for $65 that would blow FX-4300 away.

Not sure OP will be happy with his mobo choice since IIRC inserting anything in PCI-E x16 PEG will usually disable integrated graphics? He wanted at least PCIE x4 for his GbE card.

I have not yet bought anything except the NIC and it low-profile bracket, so its not too late to do a U-turn if necessary. Are you saying that using a NIC in the x16 slot of this motherboard will disable the onboard graphics? Is this the same for the Asus board?

 

[tcsenter]

I have not yet bought anything except the NIC and it low-profile bracket, so its not too late to do a U-turn if necessary. Are you saying that using a NIC in the x16 slot of this motherboard will disable the onboard graphics? Is this the same for the Asus board?

No my understanding was dated, looks like the BIOS does have an option to "keep IGP enabled" when another device is inserted into the PCI-E x16 slot (at least on those models I checked) so it should be OK. But you might want to double check with the manufacturer support/sales to be sure.