Help me pick a guitar amp - updated with pics

[The Sauce]

So I have been out of the guitar scene for about 6-8 years now - let my career take over my life. Now I am looking to get back into it. Problem is that my amp is a college leftover Peavey solid state crappy-crap-crap that I probably bought for spare change and has been sitting in the basement forever rotting.

Back in my day there was Marshall, Fender, Peavey and maybe even Mesa. Now there are like a hundred different amp makers and I have no idea what is good anymore. I play everything from classical acoustic to blues to metal, so I need a well rounded amp. I was thinking maybe a Line 6 with tubes and a built in effects unit. I play a classic Clapton Edition Fender Strat. My budget is probably up to about $600-$800.

I would go try some out but I live in the middle of nowhere now and there is nothing close so I will probably have to just take a shot and order by mail.

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Here's the setup. Thanks to all who assisted me in making this decision. Randall RM100M with Blackface, JTM45 and XTC modules, Avatar 2x12 w/ Cele G12H30's, THD Hot Plate attenuator.

Pics

 

[MetalMat]

Fender Twin Reverb Amp FTW. I got one for 450 bucks a few years ago. My only complaint is that it is LOUD and not the best amp for playing heavy metal. It rules for country, blues, and rock.

 

[Platypus]

I would avoid the solid-state/tube combinations.. just my personal opinion. No glass = no class

At 800 you're probably going to want to look into the used market. Do you know much about tube amplifiers? I don't want to talk down to you if you know what you're after so give me some sort of idea where you stand. Name some bands you're after copping tones of.

 

[The Sauce]

Assume I know nothing about amps and you wouldn't be too far off. It's been too long. This is just a practice amp so I am not looking for a stack. My main genre of preference these days is modern progressive - so bands like DT, Glass hammer, Riverside, Porcupine Tree. I need a clean unprocessed sound but also need a smooth, tubey distortion for solos and something that punches back when you mute. I guess that if I had to mimic a popular sound it would be John Petrucci from DT.

I am attracted to the concept of an all-in-one combo tube amp with built in effects just for convenience but I am sure I must be giving up something in doing so. In the old days I used to do just fine with my Peavey, a Tube Screamer and a Compressor pedal.

 

[blazerazor]

If you play a strat, stick to a fender amp or Line 6. Maybe a marshall, but they are better for Gibsons (more rocking sound) Mesa for the metal.

 

[Canai]

Orange amps are fucking rocks, but rather expensive.

Fender Twin reverb is nice, and the digital one of those is even nicer.

But I'd say you should go to your local Guitar Center / Ward Brodt / whatever is local. Take your guitar with you, and just plug in and play. Best way to find a good amp

 

[Platypus]

Snatchface, you'll probably want to go with an amp with a 6L6 power tube section. This gives you the subsonic lows and crystaline high end tone most prominent in 'American' tones.

A brief history lesson.. a ridiculous amount of amplifiers out there in production all trace their roots to Leo Fender's designs. Leo's designs in turn were robbed from old RCA vacuum tube manuals. Marshall for example started their empire by modifying the Fender Bassman circuit.. Mesa Boogie got their start modifying Fender Princeton amps and in turn M/B invented cascading gain by making old Fender amps 'high gain.' Almost all the famous amplifiers out there trace their roots by copying or modifying a different amplifier.

Marshall use EL34 power tubes, which along with EL84 tubes encompass the 'British' catalog of tones. EL34's are known for their focused midrange attack and harmonically rich upper midrange section. The classic British crunch you hear from AC/DC, Hendrix, old Clapton, Zeppelin, Sabbath, etc is an amplifier with that kind of power section.

So it depends on your ears.. I personally prefer 6L6's because they have a much better clean tone and can reach down into the subsonic bass territory far better than EL34's or 84's can. There are a ton more tube types out there but those 3 are the most prominent in current production amplifiers today.

6L6 will give you the best cleans and blues tones in my opinion. Metal is subject to taste... a shit load of 80s metal was created on Marshalls... but Marshall quality is absolute dick these days, I wouldn't purchase anything they've made in the last few years personally. There are lots of copies out there which out-Marshall any Marshall on the market right now.

I would honestly avoid a combo with built in effects, if you want the best tones I would go pure tube and not look back.. there's just nothing close out there honestly.

Your best bet is to find an amp with 6L6's with a master volume control so you don't have to turn your amp to 11 to get cranked tones and then pick up a nice overdrive for your metal kick. There is nothing in the 800 dollar price range that will 'do it all' without assistance of a pedal in my opinion. You are better off getting a great clean/blues/pushed tone and then using a pedal to push the preamp into a more compressed/saturated area for metal tones.

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Prod...fo/Express/Express.htm
The 5:50 is a kickass little amplifier.. it goes for 1200 bucks so it's a bit more than your estimate but you might have some luck finding a used one. They are brand new so it might be a bit harder but this would probably be your best bet for all the tones you're after in a small package. It also can scale down to Class( single ended power section) A mode as well as Class A/B (push/pull power configuration) and can get down to a much lower wattage than 50 (which is overkill for home playing) so you can get better power tube saturation at lower volumes.

Petrucci has used Mesa's exclusively for years. His famous lead tone comes from a Boogie Mark IIC+ and his rhythm is a Boogie Mark IV which he used exclusively up until the Six Degrees era where he had a brief stint with the Boogie Dual Rectifier.. he has since gone back to the Mark IV and C+ for the newer stuff. The Express won't give you access to his tones exactly but they're close enough and the closest you'll get in that price range.

I would recommend a Mark IV for you normally but they're pricey, even used, they go for around 1K and they're extremely complicated, especially if you've never used a tube amplifier before. They have tons of bells and whistles and are honestly probably more complex than you need for a basic kickaround combo amp.

If you're looking into a British tone as discussed above, the Orange Rocker 30 can be had for around 800 used and is a kickass little amplifier. Pair it with a nice OD on the dirty channel and you'll be coping Sabbath for days, the cleans are surprisingly good for an EL34 tube amp.

 

[NL5]

If you don't mind going used, you could pick up a Randall MTS Combo amp - an RM20B or the 50 watt 2x12. TOTALLY versatile. Michael Wagner endorsed. It can do nearly everything VERY well. I have musicians in here all the time, and evry single one of them are AMAZED at the palette of sounds that can be achieved with one amp.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Platypus
I would avoid the solid-state/tube combinations.. just my personal opinion. No glass = no class

At 800 you're probably going to want to look into the used market. Do you know much about tube amplifiers? I don't want to talk down to you if you know what you're after so give me some sort of idea where you stand. Name some bands you're after copping tones of.

Yeah, I'm actually really depressed about the state of affordable amps these days. They made tube amps trendy, so now they're $1500 for a head, and all the cold sounding solid state amps are in the $300-$800 affordable range. I'm not a big fan of this modeling stuff going on either. Line6 used to be really good at it, but then they became a "corporation" instead of a gear maker, so their modeling quality is really going down hill.

I have a '82 Traynor Bloc 50 that I use as my work horse- it's solid state, but it's clean and honest, and the mid range and bass are hard to beat for my tastes. If I had to buy a new amp in that price range, I'd probably go with A Vox AC-30 line, or something from Orange. With unlimited money I'd get a Marshall 1959SLP, but I probably never will because I like being married

 

[gorcorps]

I'm a big fan of line 6 right now. It blows my Fender amp away.

 

[Platypus]

Digital modeling just isn't there in my opinion.. it's not even close to my ears.

It's not just the sound but also the feeling and response of the amplifier. Digital is way too cold and and precise, there's no emotion or feeling in it.

 

[Invisible Evil]

I play through krank amp. but Im a metal player, I have played some clean through it, but its not what I would say as classy clean more like dirty whore clean, if that means anything. My in home practice amp its a Marshall Valvestate 100watt and its pretty bitching, but those are discontinued now.

 

[NL5]

Originally posted by: NL5
If you don't mind going used, you could pick up a Randall MTS Combo amp - an RM20B or the 50 watt 2x12. TOTALLY versatile. Michael Wagner endorsed. It can do nearly everything VERY well. I have musicians in here all the time, and evry single one of them are AMAZED at the palette of sounds that can be achieved with one amp.

Genius. Pure Genius!

 

[Chiller2]

I am not an expert but the consensus on a guitar forum I read is Tube over solid state and at all cost stay away from Line 6 spider and Marshall MG series
If you get a Solid State combo the Roland Cube (for higher gain stuff) or the Vox Valtronix ( for the more mellow stuff) seem to lead the way.
for tube maybe an Fender Hot Rod or Twin Amp or the Vox Custom Clasic.

 

[Anubis]

get whatever ones goes to 11

 

[j511180]

used Peavey Classic 30 for $300ish - good all around amp, though it's probably too loud if you're just a bedroom player - spend the rest on tube/speaker swap, effects, etc.

 

[evident]

marshall AVT series are good in that price range. I have the AVT100 and it's pretty sweet!

 

[warmodder]

I dunno if you could snag a dual rectifier at that price, but I'd definitely look that way if I could spare the coin. I've used a model of it in some of my recordings and it sounds absolutely fantastic. I imagine the real thing would only sound better. I also really like orange amps for a nice British crunch. Gl

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: warmodder
I dunno if you could snag a dual rectifier at that price, but I'd definitely look that way if I could spare the coin. I've used a model of it in some of my recordings and it sounds absolutely fantastic. I imagine the real thing would only sound better. I also really like orange amps for a nice British crunch. Gl

Dual Rectifiers go for around 1K in the used market and honestly are kind of a one trick pony. They can do other tones but they really only do that super bassy crunch tone well. If he wants great cleans for blues and other sorts the DR will not really be up his alley. Plus the amp is a nightmare to get to sound good at lower volumes so it's not really a good bedroom amp.

 

[warmodder]

How about the orange tiny terror? It's cheap, small, and sounds pretty good. It would work great in a bedroom imo.

I didn't know the dualrect was a one trick pony either. That's good to know because I've considered getting a real one for recording. I might look elsewhere.

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: warmodder
How about the orange tiny terror? It's cheap, small, and sounds pretty good. It would work great in a bedroom imo.

I didn't know the dualrect was a one trick pony either. That's good to know because I've considered getting a real one for recording. I might look elsewhere.

I don't mean to knock the amp, it does all sorts of 'good' tones but only does one 'great' tone in my opinion.

Tiny Terror is a fun amp, crap for cleans though, also a one trick.

 

[Fritzo]

All these posts are kind of getting around to what I was saying earlier...why are the amp makers forcing all these effects and modelings down our throat on affordable amps, but the clean/no frills amps are top $?? Most of us want something clean that we add our own pedals to. My nephew's Line6 has 24 FREAKIN KNOBS ON IT. He has no idea what most of them do, and doesn't want to.

I want my amp to have volume, reverb, gain, bass, treble, and maybe overdrive. I'll get pedals if I want anything else. Drop the crap and give me a decent powerful full sounding amp for $500 will ya????

I guess this is why I've been using my Traynor for 25 years now

 

[NL5]

Originally posted by: NL5
If you don't mind going used, you could pick up a Randall MTS Combo amp - an RM20B or the 50 watt 2x12. TOTALLY versatile. Michael Wagner endorsed. It can do nearly everything VERY well. I have musicians in here all the time, and evry single one of them are AMAZED at the palette of sounds that can be achieved with one amp.

What a hell of an amp!

 

[The Sauce]

Ok, so I am actually intrigued by the modular preamps of the Randalls. I am confused about something. Some of the amps actually state what tube section it is using. so, for example, the RM50HB says that it uses 6L6's. But the preamp modules are what have the tubes, right? So if I put in a different module do I get a different tube section? This isnt clear in any of the adverts.

Looks like the RM20HB would be the perfect size for me but I don't want the EL84 tubes. Would swapping out the tube preamp give me 6L6s? That's what I can't figure out.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Platypus
Snatchface, you'll probably want to go with an amp with a 6L6 power tube section. This gives you the subsonic lows and crystaline high end tone most prominent in 'American' tones.

A brief history lesson.. a ridiculous amount of amplifiers out there in production all trace their roots to Leo Fender's designs. Leo's designs in turn were robbed from old RCA vacuum tube manuals. Marshall for example started their empire by modifying the Fender Bassman circuit.. Mesa Boogie got their start modifying Fender Princeton amps and in turn M/B invented cascading gain by making old Fender amps 'high gain.' Almost all the famous amplifiers out there trace their roots by copying or modifying a different amplifier.

Marshall use EL34 power tubes, which along with EL84 tubes encompass the 'British' catalog of tones. EL34's are known for their focused midrange attack and harmonically rich upper midrange section. The classic British crunch you hear from AC/DC, Hendrix, old Clapton, Zeppelin, Sabbath, etc is an amplifier with that kind of power section.

So it depends on your ears.. I personally prefer 6L6's because they have a much better clean tone and can reach down into the subsonic bass territory far better than EL34's or 84's can. There are a ton more tube types out there but those 3 are the most prominent in current production amplifiers today.

6L6 will give you the best cleans and blues tones in my opinion. Metal is subject to taste... a shit load of 80s metal was created on Marshalls... but Marshall quality is absolute dick these days, I wouldn't purchase anything they've made in the last few years personally. There are lots of copies out there which out-Marshall any Marshall on the market right now.

I would honestly avoid a combo with built in effects, if you want the best tones I would go pure tube and not look back.. there's just nothing close out there honestly.

Your best bet is to find an amp with 6L6's with a master volume control so you don't have to turn your amp to 11 to get cranked tones and then pick up a nice overdrive for your metal kick. There is nothing in the 800 dollar price range that will 'do it all' without assistance of a pedal in my opinion. You are better off getting a great clean/blues/pushed tone and then using a pedal to push the preamp into a more compressed/saturated area for metal tones.

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Prod...fo/Express/Express.htm
The 5:50 is a kickass little amplifier.. it goes for 1200 bucks so it's a bit more than your estimate but you might have some luck finding a used one. They are brand new so it might be a bit harder but this would probably be your best bet for all the tones you're after in a small package. It also can scale down to Class( single ended power section) A mode as well as Class A/B (push/pull power configuration) and can get down to a much lower wattage than 50 (which is overkill for home playing) so you can get better power tube saturation at lower volumes.

Petrucci has used Mesa's exclusively for years. His famous lead tone comes from a Boogie Mark IIC+ and his rhythm is a Boogie Mark IV which he used exclusively up until the Six Degrees era where he had a brief stint with the Boogie Dual Rectifier.. he has since gone back to the Mark IV and C+ for the newer stuff. The Express won't give you access to his tones exactly but they're close enough and the closest you'll get in that price range.

I would recommend a Mark IV for you normally but they're pricey, even used, they go for around 1K and they're extremely complicated, especially if you've never used a tube amplifier before. They have tons of bells and whistles and are honestly probably more complex than you need for a basic kickaround combo amp.

If you're looking into a British tone as discussed above, the Orange Rocker 30 can be had for around 800 used and is a kickass little amplifier. Pair it with a nice OD on the dirty channel and you'll be coping Sabbath for days, the cleans are surprisingly good for an EL34 tube amp.

You've come far, young Fretwalker. </Lord Vader>

Seriously, damn dude, you've done some serious homework, since we first met.