Help me find motherboard - unusual requirements

[TheTester]

Hi
I'm looking for small factor motherboard that will replace my D945GCLF2. And because it is upgrade then it should be better of course. That's why I have few requirements that all needs to be fulfilled:

1. At least 3x SATAIII.
2. mSATA (or M.2) with OS boot support.
3. CPU with GPU on board (lower power consumption). Doesn't matter which company...It can be Intel or AMD or even VIA.
4. 1Gb/s LAN.
5. Reasonable price - for example I know that ASUS has motherboard like this but it's quite expensive.

I already tried to look but I couldn't find anything like this. So I thought that maybe you could help me. Have any of you seen motherboard like this? Or maybe there is some site that works like database that could be easily searched?

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Well, welcome to the forums...

What you're asking isn't really that big a deal. Any H97 board should fit the bill. Both H97 and Z97 boards can handle booting PCIe and SATA M.2 drives.

So long as you stick with a reputable manufacturer (ASUS, Gigabyte, Asrock and MSI) quality isn't an issue but an additional question is required for any recommendations. What kind of form factor would you like? ATX, mATX or ITX?

 

[TheTester]

Thanks for reply.
Sorry I forgot to mention form factor. It needs to be ITX at most. I need it for my home server that works 24/h and I use it for web server, ftp and file server with few additional things from time to time. So it needs to be small to fit its locker with all hard drives. That's why I need CPU on board - those CPUs has lower power consumption at most cases and don't require big cooling solutions.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Thanks for reply.
Sorry I forgot to mention form factor. It needs to be ITX at most. I need it for my home server that works 24/h and I use it for web server, ftp and file server with few additional things from time to time. So it needs to be small to fit its locker with all hard drives. That's why I need CPU on board - those CPUs has lower power consumption at most cases and don't require big cooling solutions.

In that case, you could do a lot worse then the ASUS H97I PLUS. 4x SATA3 ports and an M.2 slot (on the back), that can handle both PCIe and SATA M.2 drives. It even has an Intel NIC as a "bonus". Gigabyte also has a H97 ITX board, but it lacks the M.2 slot. Unfortunately you do pay a premium for ITX boards, there is little to do about that except moving to mATX.

Couple that with an i3, and it should handle everything.

 

[TheTester]

Couple that with an i3, and it should handle everything.

Yeah but power, noise and additional heat...that wouldn't be nice.

I've seen some jetway motherboard sometime ago but I couldn't find it now.
And regarding this Asus - it hasn't CPU on board and it has to. I was considering buynig one with slot and then CPU but from what I've seen slot CPUs tends to be more power consuming - there's a difference between ~10W and 35W+ when it comes to 24/h.

My current setup has Atom on board and it has enough muscle to handle tasks I throw at him. So I really don't need more power but I need more ways of attaching drives (currently I have 2xSATAII and one IDE and that's really not enough ).

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Yeah but power, noise and additional heat...that wouldn't be nice.

I've seen some jetway motherboard sometime ago but I couldn't find it now.
And regarding this Asus - it hasn't CPU on board and it has to. I was considering buynig one with slot and then CPU but from what I've seen slot CPUs tends to be more power consuming - there's a difference between ~10W and 35W+ when it comes to 24/h.

My current setup has Atom on board and it has enough muscle to handle tasks I throw at him. So I really don't need more power but I need more ways of attaching drives (currently I have 2xSATAII and one IDE and that's really not enough ).

A T-series Pentium/i3 can easily match the Celeron in both load and idle power consumption, while providing twice the CPU performance. Such a system should idle in the 10-15W range, with an efficient PSU (Power Supply), ITX board and an SSD. There is absolutely no reason to cripple performance with a BGA Pentium/Celeron.

Anyway, your HDDs are likely going to use more power then the ITX board plus CPU.

If you're worried about idle power consumption, your first priority should be a low-rated (that's below 450W) 80+ Platinum certified PSU. That'll make a lot more difference then shaving a few watts off the CPU while idle, a few watts that's very easily lost in PSU (in)efficiency...

(If you're reading reviews, you should pay very close attention to what PSU is used for the review. Many sites have a bad habit of only testing ITX boards with gigantic 750W+ rated PSUs. Needles to say such PSUs are horribly inefficient at low loads.)

F.x. my own system went from ~75W to ~55W idle just switching from an 80+ Bronze rated to a Platinum rated PSU...

 

[TheTester]

Thanks for your input!
But I'm not talking about idle but overall power consumption. Wiki 'says' that there are Celerons that match Atoms but they too seems to be only BGA.
I really don't need that additional performance. It would be just wasted. At most cases I don't need GPU as well (although there are bad times when it's needed)

Now I have some 400W SFX PSU with 80+ BRONZE. It's really interesting that switching to higher tier should lower this much. I need to consider it.
BTW How do you measure how much power your PSU drains?

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Thanks for your input!
But I'm not talking about idle but overall power consumption. Wiki 'says' that there are Celerons that match Atoms but they too seems to be only BGA.
I really don't need that additional performance. It would be just wasted. At most cases I don't need GPU as well (although there are bad times when it's needed)

In that case, I'd properly settle for a Pentium (or Celeron if you're on a budget). Again, Intel does make a little selection of T-series Pentiums:

http://ark.intel.com/products/80797/Intel-Pentium-Processor-G3240T-3M-Cache-2_70-GHz
http://ark.intel.com/products/80795/Intel-Pentium-Processor-G3440T-3M-Cache-2_80-GHz

There is a catch though. Intel does not sell these boxed (aka. retail), so they can be a little difficult to source. Since they're sold "tray" you're also going to need a 3rd party cooler. Arctic makes some good inexpensive ones.

Now I have some 400W SFX PSU with 80+ BRONZE. It's really interesting that switching to higher tier should lower this much. I need to consider it.
BTW How do you measure how much power your PSU drains?

Its all about efficiency. 80+ Bronze doesn't have to be more then 85% efficient (at 50% load), while the Platinum has to be at least 92% efficient at the same load.

If you do the math for 85% and 92% at f.x. 100W load, the bronze will use 117.6W at the wall. The Platinum will use only 108.7W, a difference of 8.9W. Since you're billed by what you use at the wall, this can add up to significant savings if running 24/7 for a full year.

F.x. at the current rate where I live, those 8.9W savings add up to ~175DKK ($31 US). More then enough to pay the difference between a Bronze and a Platinum in just one year (assuming 24/7 operation, with no hibernation). But of course your mileage may vary depending on what you pay.

With the prices we pay for electricity in Denmark, every Watt that can be shaved of counts... :ninja:

(again a caution; efficiency depends load. Optimal efficiency will be different between f.x. a 450W and a 750W. Also the lower the PSU is rated (Seasonic has a nice 360W), the more efficient it'll be at low load, as f.x. 10% load on the 360W will only be 36W. Efficiency drops sharply under 10/20% load)

For measurement of power-draw at the wall, a generic Kill-a-Watt will do. Since that is what you're billed for, that's the only measurement that matters.

 

[TheTester]

In that case, I'd properly settle for a Pentium (or Celeron if you're on a budget). Again, Intel does make a little selection of T-series Pentiums:[...]

They look promising. But still it bothers me that my current setup has power consumption on 6.5W level and Pentium has 35W or 28W (found here). My limit is 10W. It's not based on anything in particular. I just had to put some boundary to know what to look for. I've seen some Celerons J on this site that would match this profile. I will have to check them at home, when I'll have more time. Maybe there is a chance to find lower power CPU on slot.

Its all about efficiency. 80+ Bronze doesn't have to be more then 85% efficient (at 50% load), while the Platinum has to be at least 92% efficient at the same load.[...]

Thanks for explanation. I knew about existing of those tiers but I didn't think about what they meant...I will consider changing PSU when I change setup as a whole. Fortunately I have time.

With the prices we pay for electricity in Denmark, every Watt that can be shaved of counts... :ninja:[...]

I know what you mean. That's why I'm struggling with this whole power consumption. I had to pay new electric bill this month and it was a little bigger then I wanted.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

They look promising. But still it bothers me that my current setup has power consumption on 6.5W level and Pentium has 35W or 28W (found here). My limit is 10W. It's not based on anything in particular. I just had to put some boundary to know what to look for. I've seen some Celerons J on this site that would match this profile. I will have to check them at home, when I'll have more time. Maybe there is a chance to find lower power CPU on slot.

I suppose if the board has a PCIe x2 or x4 connector you could use something like the Plextor M6e as a boot drive. Or a PCIe to M.2 adaptor, but either way you're looking at a fairly expensive setup. I doubt if its worth it compared to the power saved.

http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/M2PS.html (disadvantage is that it'll use one SATA port minimum, but there should be no problems booting from it since its unaltered SATA)

or

http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/M2P4A.html (this one will only work with PCIe M.2 drives, and I'm not sure Bay Trail-boards can even boot from such)

About the PSU, have you considered a PicoPSU?

 

[TheTester]

I was thinking about expansion but I wanted first check if there is a build-in solution. Expansion card has one disadvantage - size. It's not deal breaker but the less place it will take the better - I don't use case for this. Everything will be fixed inside locker which isn't too big.
Anyway - thanks for this site. Looks like great reference what to look for.
Those adapters looks great. I will however try to find mSATA first because I have one small SSD in my drawer. I listed M.2 to extend chance of finding motherboard I'm looking for.

I remember that I was looking at PicoPSU at some point. Don't they haven't enough SATA ports? I will have 3-4 HDDs and additional one for boot.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I was thinking about expansion but I wanted first check if there is a build-in solution. Expansion card has one disadvantage - size. It's not deal breaker but the less place it will take the better - I don't use case for this. Everything will be fixed inside locker which isn't too big.
Anyway - thanks for this site. Looks like great reference what to look for.
Those adapters looks great. I will however try to find mSATA first because I have one small SSD in my drawer. I listed M.2 to extend chance of finding motherboard I'm looking for.

I think the M6e has a low-profile bracket included, but I'm not sure.

I remember that I was looking at PicoPSU at some point. Don't they haven't enough SATA ports? I will have 3-4 HDDs and additional one for boot.

Not unless you use breakout Y cables, but 4 HDDs is properly stretching things with anything larger then an Atom-based Pentium/Celeron.

If you're sure you don't need the extra performance, Asrock has an AM1 board which just might fit what you're looking for. If you don't mind using an AMD system, the AM1 Athlon/Semprons are really good, if you don't expect too much from them.

 

[TheTester]

Not unless you use breakout Y cables, but 4 HDDs is properly stretching things with anything larger then an Atom-based Pentium/Celeron.

I think there could be problem with max power that PicoPSU can provide. I saw that there are PSUs between 100W and 150W. One HDD can take up to 7W. Four drives will take 28W. Fans, CPU, motherboard itself and it will be close to what this kind of PSU can deliver...

If you're sure you don't need the extra performance, Asrock has an AM1 board which just might fit what you're looking for. If you don't mind using an AMD system, the AM1 Athlon/Semprons are really good, if you don't expect too much from them.

I'm sure. I did write that I don't care about company. All I care is storage options.
This Asrock looked promising but it only accepts CPUs that are 25W...But if I don't find anything better then this is possible solution. Thanks!

 

[piasabird]

I did a search on Amazon.com

Maybe look at h81 thin mini itx:

http://www.amazon.com/MSI-Computer-M...tx+motherboard

Don't know what you think a reasonable price is. The problem with this type of motherboard is you need an external brick 19v power supply which would probably run up the price a bit. You also cant use a video card unless it draws less than 25w. Video will depend on the processor. If you want wireless and msata your pickings would be slim.

Might also look at gigabyte and Asus.

 

[TheTester]

Oh come on. You could at least focus on those short points from my first post. The motherboard you've showed doesn't has enough SATA connectors and if it is powered only by 19V PSU then it probably won't have enough power to power up everything I need. It's nice piece of hardware but unfortunately not for me.

 

[JustMe21]

Generally, if you want mSata onboard, you have to go with a Thin ITX motherboard, which is almost 2x - 3x the cost of a regular ITX motherboard. So, instead of mSata onboard, buy a mSata to Sata adapter and use this ITX motherboard.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/AM1H-ITX/index.us.asp
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157491

It has 4 x SATA 3, Gigabit LAN, and you can choose/replace the CPU.

I use this $10 90W AC Adapter, but any 19V AC adapter with a 5.5mm plug should work. I would have gone 65W, but I want it to power a future 45W AMD A8-7600 processor.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...16J-0018-037J3

And MB/CPU/RAM/SSD I have all fit into the M350 case
http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Mini.../dp/B003DXI288

At idle, I use about 16W and when I do video transcoding, when it's at 95% CPU utilization on my AMD 5350, it's uses 28W. When it can stream natively, it only goes up to 18W in power usage. The numbers are from the Kill-A-Watt meter, so it's total system power.

 

[TheTester]

Thanks for your input JustMe21. I was considering motherboard with empty slot but right now I'm going to stick with CPU on board solutions. I have my reasons but there are two major one:
1. Still lower power consumption (for example I found this little beauty with power consumption a little below 19W on full load - now if only I could find it anywhere to buy...).
2. Easier to maintain - I don't have to use additional fans etc. Everything is already included.

I've made a list of motherboards that would satisfy me and I will put it here for anyone that is interested. Most of them doesn't have mSATA but unfortunately I will probably have to discard this requirement because it's hard to find it and even if there is one it's expensive. Not to mention that I had some minor accident with my server (one hdd to be specific) and I have to speed up my search .

• http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/E35LM1/?cat=Specifications
• http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/QC5000-ITXWiFi/?cat=Specifications
• http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/C70M1/?cat=Specifications
• http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/E350M1USB3/?cat=Specifications
• http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/E350M1/?cat=Specifications
• http://www.asus.com/pl/Motherboards/E35M1I/specifications/
• http://www.dfi.com.tw/products/Prod...=9&subCategoryId=64&productDetailsPage=false#
• http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Pr...oryID=1&DetailName=Feature&MenuID=106&LanID=0
• http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Pr...oryID=1&DetailName=Feature&MenuID=106&LanID=0
• http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3681#ov
• http://pl.msi.com/product/mb/E350IAE45.html#/?div=Detail
• http://www.sapphiretech.com/present...gid=1047&sgid=1045&pid=1662&psn=&lid=1&leg=0#
• http://www.supermicro.nl/products/motherboard/celeron/X10/X10SBA.cfm

After I expand this list with prices and some distinguishing features I will update this post.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Whatever you do, avoid the Brazos-based C70/E300/E350/E450. I have a couple of such systems running, and Brazos is simply not viable in a 2014 machine. They are slow as molasses, even when using SSDs. Don't say you weren't warned...

If you -have- to use something BGA, at least use something with a 1037U.

 

[TheTester]

Thx for pointing that out. I didn't look for benchmarks yet. I wanted to first make a list...but after your post I did quick look using site that I mentioned in my previous post and...sigh...why, oh why Intel didn't implement more SATA into its chips.

I really would like to get my hands on this supermicro motherboard. But I'm afraid that will be expensive because two other I found (Asus and...Gigabyte I think) are really pricey.

I need to look at expansion card that would add M.2 or mSATA through PCI-E but I have problem with trusting them - that's my precious data that they had to transfer.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Thx for pointing that out. I didn't look for benchmarks yet. I wanted to first make a list...but after your post I did quick look using site that I mentioned in my previous post and...sigh...why, oh why Intel didn't implement more SATA into its chips.

They do. 8x/9x chipsets have 6 SATA3 ports (except the H81, which has 2x SATA3 and 4x SATA2). Most mainboard manufactures don't implement more on ITX boards, as few people use that many in an ITX chassis. I'd also expect the could be routing/trace issues on ITX board, that require more expensive components.

I really would like to get my hands on this supermicro motherboard. But I'm afraid that will be expensive because two other I found (Asus and...Gigabyte I think) are really pricey.

I need to look at expansion card that would add M.2 or mSATA through PCI-E but I have problem with trusting them - that's my precious data that they had to transfer.

If you value your data, I mean really value it, supermicro is the go-to. Sure they're more expensive, and usually require hardware from their QVL, but you can be assured they're rock-solid.

Though such a board could be overkill for home use, but that really depends on your point of view.

 

[JustMe21]

Here's 2 sites that sell the Supermicro X10SBA. Just be careful as there is an L model with just 2 SATA ports. Both places have the 4 SATA version in the $170 range.

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-X10SBA
http://www.serversdirect.com/Compon...bedded_board?gclid=CNqW7aTF378CFWwQ7AodvR0Ahg

The ASRock QC5000 seems to be your best bet from the lower price perspective and being an embedded solution. AMD A4-5000 1.5 GHz Quad Core APU, 15W, 4 x SATA 3. It's a Kabini processor just like the AMD 5150 and 5350, but it wouldn't be as fast as Intel's J1900, since that's 2 GHz.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157518

Better performing than the AMD E350s
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6974/amd-kabini-review/3
http://techreport.com/review/24856/amd-a4-5000-kabini-apu-reviewed/5
and some power consumption benches
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/kabini-a4-5000-review,3518-13.html

The J1900 isn't exactly 10W either, but I'm sure it's better than these reviews because my 5350 idles at 16W and is 28W at 95% CPU when transcoding and it was close to the J1900's power usage.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/athlon-5350-am1-platform-review,3801-9.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/806-amd-kabini-vs-intel-bay-trail-d/page8.html

 

[TheTester]

Thanks both of you for your help.
@Insert_Nickname: That's weird...because AMD platform has much more models with more than 2 SATA3 ports. And they are even at reasonable price. If Intel's chipsets have support for more SATA ports then my theory is that there some licensing problem...like Intel demands more money for things like that.

@JustMe21: Thanks for those shops but unfortunately they won't ship outside US. I found one on ebay but shipping and taxes will raise final price too much. I had to find some shop in EU (Poland would be best).

Based on your opinions I will stick with J1900 or A4-50xx if we talk only about CPUs. And if I don't find anything better then I will have to choose between Supermicro X10SBA (preferred) or Asrock QC5000.

If any of you have some other suggestions then feel free to post them. All are appreciated. And some of them I even might consider.