Help me decide. 6970 vs 580

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Ashkael

Member
May 5, 2010
51
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Wow, this thread kind of exploded while I finished my shift. Thanks for all the feedback!

You say that money is not an issue, are you saying that you don't mind throwing bang for the buck out of the window, or you still want bang for the buck but don't mind spending the money for either card?

If money is truly not an issue, then I would go with the GTX580, there is no reason not to. The extra video ram won't likely make that big of a deal.

If you don't want to spend the extra money just to spend it, then the 6970 will likely give you plenty of performance at 1080P and save you some money.

What I meant is that yes, I'm willing to throw bang for the buck out of the window for performance. The thing is, the price gap between the 580 and the 6970 is so massive that I don't know what to do. In some games, the 6970 is right up there trading blows with the 580, whereas in others it's trailing behind the 570 and this bothers me greatly. I really appreciate the consistent performance of the 580, but the 6970's rollercoaster performance leads me to think that it's something that could drastically be improved with drivers.

Then again, it could not and I would be wasting my time.


Just another thought. I didn't see you mention anything about running multiple cards one way or another. Seeing as you already have a 5870, what might be your best option is to grab a second one. You'll spend the least amount as well as have a faster setup then either the 6970 or GTX580. Two 6950's would be incredible performance as well if you wanted to go 69xx.

I didn't mention anything about dual GPUs, it was my bad and sorry for overlooking that. After having tried both SLI and more recently, Crossfire, I've pretty much decided to avoid multiple-GPU setups. Micro-stuttering is the bane of my existence and I just cannot stand it. I would much rather play a game in a single GPU card at 45 FPS than play with a Crossfire or SLI setup at 60 but with micro stuttering.


If MONEY is no object, then theres only 1 choice the gtx580.
Thats easy.

This is the way I'm leaning right now. However, as much as I like to have the absolute best, there's always the very real possibility of more mature AMD drivers and I'd feel like an idiot for having spent $150 or so more than a 6970. D:


I would spend $70 more and get two 6950s instead of a 580. The two 6950s are about 170% faster than a single 580 and will allow you to max everything with AA at your resolution.

The 580 will not, it's an awkward card if you are looking for a rig that can max everything, two of them is too much for anything but 2560x1600 and one is not enough below that resolution.

This is a very good point, and I've been considering it. The thing is, my previous experiences with multiple GPU setups have all been sour: yeah, FPS is great, but as soon as microstuttering kicks in I feel a single GPU solution with slightly lower FPS would be more enjoyable.

With that said, I've heard that AMD has vastly improved their Crossfire scaling with the 6000 series. I'm still worried about microstuttering ruining my experience though.


The only thing i like about the 6970 is the 2GB of Memory. If only Amd could make drivers that are decent like fermi's.

The really interesting thing is that I tend to favor AMD over NVIDIA when it comes to my video card purchases because all of my NVIDIA card purchases have been disasters (card arriving dead, driver conflicts with the games I currently want to play). To be fair, I don't really blame NVIDIA for this; it was probably bad luck on my part on the card that arrived dead, and me wanting to play Fallout 3 with the 190 drivers. :p


Have you noticed that at 1920x1200 (on the chart presented) the GTX580 is only 28% faster than your 5870? The 6970 is even less.

I wouldn't consider an upgrade so expensive for such low performance gains.

I would either get a second 5870 for CF, if your motherboard support it or go all the way for 6950CF (possibly unlocking them to 6970), especially if multi monitor gaming is in your future plans and/or your second box really wants a 5870.

Another option is wait just a bit more until for the 6990 and the 595 (not sure if this is the name) and see what those bring to the table.

Otherwise, these cards seem really bad upgrade values to the 5870.

I've taken notice, but 2 things: 1) the relative performance also applies to minimum FPS, so even if 28% is not by any means an earth-shattering difference, the increase in minimum FPS might make particularly intensive segments in some games much more tolerable, and 2) Microstuttering. :(


:thumbsup: Agreed. If he is going to spend $500 on a GTX580, might as well try HD6950 in CF for $60 more. It will wipe the floor with the 580 at 1920x1080. HD6970/570 cards are much better values. The 797 mhz EVGA GTX570 should be very close to the GTX580 in performance for $370. Then if you want more performance down the line, just grab HD7000/Kepler closer towards the end of the year. You'll put $150 saved now towards those much faster cards.

You always seem to be the voice of reason in these forums when it comes to video cards. I appreciate that!

This card looks very nice, and more and more people keep recommending Crossifre or SLI setups. From a performance/price point of view, it seems like a pair of 6950s or 570s would be a very wise investment right now over a single 580 or 6970.

Still, the idea that microstuttering might creep in keeps bothering me.
 

Ashkael

Member
May 5, 2010
51
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0
My GTX 480 runs UT3 better than my previous setup of 2 vanilla Sapphire 5870s.

I think what counts more is the minimum FPS. IMO get the GTX 580

btw im on a 120hz 1680x1050 jfyi (rig2)

This right here is very important to me: minimum FPS. I've previously tried 5870 Crossfire as well as a single 5970. My experience was that while max FPS skyrocketed, minimum FPS barely improved at all. I just don't feel it's useful or practical to have your FPS go from 80 to 120 in a Crossfire setup, only to have it drop down to 30 in that one intensive area of the game where your single GPU setup also goes down to 30 (the frost section in Crysis comes to mind).

There's the real possibility that this could just be an issue with AMD's Crossfire scaling with the 5000 series. Like I mentioned previously, I've heard that Crossfire is vastly improved with the 6000 series, but I don't know to what degree. How about minimum FPS?


5870 -> 6970 is an absolute waste, especially at 1920x1080. The GTX580 is a waste too from a price/performance perspective. I'd sit on the 5870 and overclock the hell out of it. Interested in hearing your thoughts and response on what's been posted, Ashkael, if the e-peen waving hasn't scared you off yet.

Don't worry sir, I've been lurking these forums for over a year now and I know all about the most notorious members. ;)

You definitely have a point in that the upgrade is not sound from a price/performance perspective, it's just that I don't care so much for price at the moment. From my understanding, the 500 and 6000 series should perform better in Direct 11 games, especially with effects like Tessellation, correct? This last part is also important as I like a good image quality (please no "AMD sacrifices imperceptible image quality for better performance" hyperbole here).
 
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3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
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Sitting on the 5870 and waiting for the dual GPU cards seems like the best advice to me. At your res the 5870 is fine until something that will give you noticeable game-play improvement comes along.
 

MegaWorks

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
3,819
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Just get the 6970 it's a way better value than that rip off GTX 580 or a 6950 and unlock it to a 6970 that's a super value. Some of you make me laugh for 6 or 7 more frames you're willing to throw away an extra $100, call that
smiley-signs052.gif
 

dust

Golden Member
Oct 13, 2008
1,328
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If money's no problem, I'd first get a higher res monitor first. Do you really need more horsepower at that res?
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
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i agree, if i had the money i would have a 580 but my budget only allows ATI cards since they deliver nicer cards at affordable prices

Never quite heard this before. At least in this context. You're budget only allows you to buy an ATI cards?

What price point are you referring to?

OP: You should be comparing the 6970 to the GTX570. Not the 580.
 

hclarkjr

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,375
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Never quite heard this before. At least in this context. You're budget only allows you to buy an ATI cards?

What price point are you referring to?

OP: You should be comparing the 6970 to the GTX570. Not the 580.
my budget for video cards is $300 or so. i will not pay more than that for one, i always wait for them to come around that price. sure i could spend the $500 + and get the 580 but my wallet would not be happy.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,219
54
91
my budget for video cards is $300 or so. i will not pay more than that for one, i always wait for them to come around that price. sure i could spend the $500 + and get the 580 but my wallet would not be happy.

Ah, well then you would probably want a GTX470/GTX560 on Nvidia side. The latter not out until end of the month, or so I have read.
 

badb0y

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2010
4,015
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I understand your reluctance to buy a GTX 580 because of improvements in the HD 69xx drivers but one thing you should never do is bank on driver improvements to come through. I would take a GTX 580 if I was in your shoes, where money would not be an issue.

However my personal opinion is within the next year we could see an improvement in the 69xx series through drivers of upto 10% because it's a new architecture and we only have gotten 1 driver release so far. Historically, both GTX 4xx and HD 5xxx were able to squeeze out atleast 5-10% of performance through drivers BUT I would never base a purchase simply because what could happen, if you buy something, buy it at face value and take any improvements as if they are icing on the cake. Hope I helped some.
 

MrK6

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2004
4,458
4
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I think what some people fail to understand is that even though money isn't an issue, price/performance is still considered. One of the reasons some of us have so much disposable income is because we spend our money wisely. That said, IMO, there's nothing on the market right now that's worth upgrading to if you already have a 5850 or 5870. While it's true that these newer cards offer better DX11 performance, none of it is that much of an improvement. HD 6950's offer a tremendous value if you're interested in multi-GPU, but for those of us that want a single GPU solution, there's no "must-get" currently.

Since you're using a 120Hz 1920x1080 display, the GTX 580 is THE card to get. The GTX 580 is faster at lower resolutions and, in my experience, NVIDIA cards can more easily put out higher framerates (which will put that 120Hz display to use). Basically, you need to decide if it's worth the cash to you or not, but the GTX 580 is definitely the way to go.
 

96Firebird

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
5,742
340
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I understand your reluctance to buy a GTX 580 because of improvements in the HD 69xx drivers but one thing you should never do is bank on driver improvements to come through. I would take a GTX 580 if I was in your shoes, where money would not be an issue.

However my personal opinion is within the next year we could see an improvement in the 69xx series through drivers of upto 10% because it's a new architecture and we only have gotten 1 driver release so far. Historically, both GTX 4xx and HD 5xxx were able to squeeze out atleast 5-10% of performance through drivers BUT I would never base a purchase simply because what could happen, if you buy something, buy it at face value and take any improvements as if they are icing on the cake. Hope I helped some.

I agree with this. Don't purchase something just to hope it gets improved after you buy it.
 

Aristotelian

Golden Member
Jan 30, 2010
1,246
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I think what some people fail to understand is that even though money isn't an issue, price/performance is still considered. One of the reasons some of us have so much disposable income is because we spend our money wisely.

And for those people, money is an issue (they care about optimizing price and performance, not performance irrespective of price). For those that say "money is not an issue" (in the context of buying a video card) it is reasonable to conclude that they don't care about a few hundred dollars here and there. I think what people fail to understand is, if you're going to say "money is not an issue" you can't then transition to "price/performance" without contradicting the claim that "money is not an issue" - it clearly is, because it is being optimized with respect to performance.
 

Rezident

Senior member
Nov 30, 2009
283
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Same as but I chose the 6970 'cos it gives about 90% of 580 performance at my res. for less than 70% of the price.