Help me choose a video card upgrade

[taltamir]

On 7/24/2008 8:48:50 PM I bought an evga GTX260 SC... It cost me 224.99$ since I found a really slick deal that combined a discount, a second discount from a code, and mail in rebate (which I actually got in a timely manner)... original price was 310$

My current card is selling for about 140$ on ebay... minus about 10$ for shipping/fuel (drive to USPS)/my time and effort (I am selling myself cheap here), Its worth about 130$ for me to sell it.

Its been over 18 months! (I prefer to do micro upgrade of buy new part and sell old every 6 months if I can find good deals) So I started looking at upgrade prospects and they don't look good:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2977/...x-470-6-months-late-was-it-worth-the-wait-/11

from other reviews I have seen that the 5770 (which is admittedly very cheap right now at a mere 130$) is spot on equal in performance to my GTX260. (which, ironically, make it a good side grade, at the same cost and lower power consumption, lower heat, and DX11 support, and smaller form factor; actually, this is the most tempting option for me right now)

So going up from the 5770 (assuming it is equivalent to my card, I will just use it as a baseline).
Comparing battleforge (only game I have that gives my GPU pause) @ 1920x1200 resolution (my monitor's resolution.)

5830: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...on%20HD%205830
20.7% improvement, costs 230$. so for 100$ and some effort I can get 20.7% improvement? no thank you.

5850: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...nd&Order=PRICE
62.2% improvement, costs 300$ to buy, cost of upgrade is thus 170$... more reasonable bang per buck and more reasonable overall improvement.

4850x2: not the list of cards tested in that review, I see it on ebay for ~200$.. I don't have the PSU for it though.

5870: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...on%20HD%205870
91.9% improvement, 415$ to buy, 285$ upgrade cost... pretty heft price tag now. its a nice upgrade in performance, but worse bang per buck then the 5850.

GTX470: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...tx+470&x=0&y=0
not actually available for sale! 98.8% improvement, 350$ to buy, 220$ upgrade cost. concerned about noise and power consumption.

Oh crap... I just realized the chart somehow mixed up DX10 and DX11 cards... WTF anandtech!
can someone explain to me what the idea was behind this?
Anyways, the even higher end cards are the GTX480 and beyond that only dual GPU cards which are ridiculously priced AND consume ridiculous amounts of power so they don't even bear comparing... I just don't know if the comparison i made thus far is worthwhile though since its mixed DX10 and DX11 results... i guess ill need to find another review and start over

 

[Magusigne]

I'm looking to upgrade from my GTX 285..managed to sell it for what I paid for it.

Leaning toward a 5850. Still debating if its worth it to step up to a 5870.

The 5850 uses the same ram chip as the 5870. Usually you can get a 20% overclock out of them to make them equal to the 5870. (of course the 5870 could be overclocked).

 

[RussianSensation]

It is true that if you want 2x the performance increase from GTX 260 for <$100, it's not happening for a while. I suppose you can buy a used 5850 for ~ $240-250. But still, GTX260 216, GTX275, GTX 280, HD4870/90 users are in for a long ride unless they want to drop > $150 to upgrade. I would say the bare minimum card worth upgrading to from GTX260 is 5850 Overclocked to 5870 speeds.

Also, overclock that Q9400

 

[happy medium]

5850 is a good upgrade or a gtx 470 if you like Nvidia.

 

[happy medium]

I'm looking to upgrade from my GTX 285..managed to sell it for what I paid for it.

Leaning toward a 5850. Still debating if its worth it to step up to a 5870.

The 5850 uses the same ram chip as the 5870. Usually you can get a 20% overclock out of them to make them equal to the 5870. (of course the 5870 could be overclocked).

A gtx 285 to a 5850 is only a slight upgrade. Unless you can get 250$ for your gtx 285 it's not worth it.

 

[taltamir]

It is true that if you want 2x the performance increase from GTX 260 for <$100, it's not happening for a while. I suppose you can buy a used 5850 for ~ $240-250. But still, GTX260 216, GTX275, GTX 280, HD4870/90 users are in for a long ride unless they want to drop > $150 to upgrade. I would say the bare minimum card worth upgrading to from GTX260 is 5850 Overclocked to 5870 speeds.

Also, overclock that Q9400

Excuse me but where did you get that idea?

I refered to the following as too pricy:
91.9&#37; improvement, 415$ to buy, 285$ cost of upgrade (because I can sell mine for 130$)
62.2% improvement, 300$ to buy, 170$ cost of upgrade (because I can sell mine for 130$)
20.7% improvement, 230$ to buy, 100$ cost of upgrade (because I can sell mine for 130$)

Complaining that 100$ delta from price of sale to price of purchase only gets me mere 20% more isn't the same as saying "i want double the speed for only 100$ more".

So far, the nicest looking cards are the 5850 and GTX470.
The 5850 has a nice 62.2% increase for 170$ extra. I do want a little more though.

Also, overclock that Q9400

I have a bios preset for an OC which I use on the rare occasion that I need to ... most of the time though it isn't needed.

A gtx 285 to a 5850 is only a slight upgrade. Unless you can get 250$ for your gtx 285 it's not worth it.

sadly I think you are right... I have had this card since 2008 and it seems like I will hang on to it for a while longer yet.
unless there is a wild sale soon that is.

 

[Dark4ng3l]

5850 is a better deal right now than a 5870 IMO.

 

[taltamir]

5850 is a better deal right now than a 5870 IMO.

indeed... doing the math it will cost me 3.10$ per 1% increase on the 5870, but only 2.73$ per 1% increase on the 5850...

hmm, the GTX470 looks pretty good actually at 2.23$ per 1% increase... and its practically 2x the speed of my current card as well.
But the noise and heat and power consumption concern me.

 

[Magusigne]

A gtx 285 to a 5850 is only a slight upgrade. Unless you can get 250$ for your gtx 285 it's not worth it.

I got 330 out of it on ebay. Practically criminal I know.

 

[AzN]

5850 is really the sweet spot.

 

[taltamir]

I got 330 out of it on ebay. Practically criminal I know.

ebay is full of idiots... i can never buy anything on it because they always bid it to higher then you can buy it (or an equivalent item) new on etailers... well, I could buy it anyways but I am smarter than that; I actually knew such people... its the oddest thing, you tell them "stop bidding, its too pricey now, you better buy it new" and they keep on bidding because they have to "win"... and then you ask her "why did you do it if you knew you could get it new cheaper" and she says "I don't know"... *palm + face*

Sorry... got a bit personal there... anyways, what I do is I always sell my old stuff (GPU, CPU, RAM, MOBO, etc) on ebay, then I buy a brand spanking new one that is better and sometimes even cheaper then what i sold my old one for on an etailer, usually when its on sale.

Anyways... looking at power consumption and heat:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2977/...x-470-6-months-late-was-it-worth-the-wait-/19

While the GTX470 would give me better performance per $ than the 5850 (looking at performance relative to current card, based on cost of upgrading from current card), the GTX470 is a lot hotter, noisier, and more power hungry (which translates to increased cost of ownership btw). The GTX470 also costs more money overall, and it already has a bad name so I think ill have problems selling it later...

Right now I am going to look at the 5850 and the GTX470 and see if either goes on a really good sale

 

[Dark Shroud]

I would suggest a SAPPHIRE Toxic 5850. There are three models right now.
The entry level has a slight over clock, you're really just paying for the cooler on this one. Then there is the standard OCd version and lastly a 2gig version of the standard OC'd version.

The only issues with the SAPPHIRE Toxic is that it uses a custom PCB & VRAMs. So Afterburner cannot adjust the voltage.

 

[RussianSensation]

Excuse me but where did you get that idea?

Complaining that 100$ delta from price of sale to price of purchase only gets me mere 20&#37; more isn't the same as saying "i want double the speed for only 100$ more".

1) I sold my older system with E6600 @ 3.4ghz + 6600 non-GT and upgraded to a system with Q6600 @ 3.4ghz + 8800GTS 320 for $180.
2) I then sold my Q6600 @ 3.4ghz + 8800GTS 320 and upgraded to Core i7 860 @ 3.9ghz + 4890 for ~ $275 (so $140 each lets say).

I guess because I buy parts in US and sell them used in Canada, my expectations of what $100 upgrade should get are different. :awe: I aim for at least 50% performance increase for each $100 I spend.

Core i7 860 is $317 CDN x 1.13% tax = $358 CDN.
Core i7 860 is $229 USD x 1.06% tax = $242 US

Exchange rate: 1.00 USD = 0.999666 CAD

So let's revisit your options:
91.9% improvement, 415$ to buy, 285$ cost of upgrade (because I can sell mine for 130$) => $3.10 buys you each 1% performance increase
62.2% improvement, 300$ to buy, 170$ cost of upgrade (because I can sell mine for 130$) => $2.73 buys you each 1% performance increase <<<the winner is 5850>>>
20.7% improvement, 230$ to buy, 100$ cost of upgrade (because I can sell mine for 130$) => $4.83 buys you each 1% performance increase

 

[blanketyblank]

You could also get 2 x 5770 if your MOBO supports crossfire. A little better than 5870 performance for $260 or so. Power usage is actually pretty low as well.

 

[RussianSensation]

You could also get 2 x 5770 if your MOBO supports crossfire.

EP35-DS3R (rev 2.1):

1 x PCI Express x16 slots
3 x PCI Express x1 slots

Nice try on 5770s though. Great cards!

 

[MagickMan]

5850 and OC to 5870 performance levels, which is about 925/1200 for a 5850.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

For the 470, not only is it not currently on sale but there is no guarantee on how much stock will exist once it is released and how close to the MSRP it will really stay.

The performance is certainly there though!

 

[GodisanAtheist]

For the 470, not only is it not currently on sale but there is no guarantee on how much stock will exist once it is released and how close to the MSRP it will really stay.

The performance is certainly there though!

 

[marmasatt]

I just sent back my $5850 (RMA) that I got for $260 and I can't even find anywhere near that price 2 months later. This IS criminal. I am also actually considering the 5770 route for the same money now.....

 

[taltamir]

1) I sold my older system with E6600 @ 3.4ghz + 6600 non-GT and upgraded to a system with Q6600 @ 3.4ghz + 8800GTS 320 for $180.
2) I then sold my Q6600 @ 3.4ghz + 8800GTS 320 and upgraded to Core i7 860 @ 3.9ghz + 4890 for ~ $275 (so $140 each lets say).

I guess because I buy parts in US and sell them used in Canada, my expectations of what $100 upgrade should get are different. :awe: I aim for at least 50% performance increase for each $100 I spend.

Core i7 860 is $317 CDN x 1.13% tax = $358 CDN.
Core i7 860 is $229 USD x 1.06% tax = $242 US

Exchange rate: 1.00 USD = 0.999666 CAD

So let's revisit your options:
91.9% improvement, 415$ to buy, 285$ cost of upgrade (because I can sell mine for 130$) => $3.10 buys you each 1% performance increase
62.2% improvement, 300$ to buy, 170$ cost of upgrade (because I can sell mine for 130$) => $2.73 buys you each 1% performance increase <<<the winner is 5850>>>
20.7% improvement, 230$ to buy, 100$ cost of upgrade (because I can sell mine for 130$) => $4.83 buys you each 1% performance increase

great analysis...
now i just need to convince myself to spend 170$ for an upgrade at this point in time rather then wait for the next gen... le sigh...

wait, weren't there rumors of an AMD refresh coming real soonish?

 

[Apocalypse23]

Since you have a Q9400, I'd just say to get a 5870 and oc it. You will be bottlenecked by anything over a 5870. The 5850 is a cheap shot since you will be ocing it pretty high and effecting it's lifespan just to meet the 5870 speeds...The 5870 has more headroom and you can do a mild oc on it and have a long life too...

On another note, single Gpu cards kinda suck these days, you need at least CF for some decent maximum gaming imo, but with dual gpu you'd be better off with a i5/i7.

 

[Kenmitch]

Not much diff in core design of 5850 vs 5870 if you get lucky on a 5850 you should be able to run above 5870 speeds safely. Providing it doesn't require an obseen amount of voltage to the core. Mine in sig seems good not sure if it'll go higher on the core as I didn't wanna juice it anymore. Just wanted to get 19k + on 3dmark