Help me choose a motherboard - file server, 1150, max reliability, no frills

[hoorah]

Building a new file server for our small office. Functions are very basic for now but will likely grow into more functions over time. Our last file server was built with a Sempron 140 (single core chip) and 2GB of ram which over the course of 5 years was upgraded twice. I suspect a similar life-cycle of this server.

Likely going with either a G3258 or an I3-4xxx chip for current use. Will be running WHS2011 for now + one low-intensity W7 or W8 virtual machine. I suspect the next upgrade cycle (around 2 years) will be going to Windows Server (whatever the next version is) and an I5 chip, with maybe another VM.

I want - max reliability, 4 ram slots, 6 sata ports. Don't need any other frills besides these, certainly no overclocking. Prefer ASUS or Gigabyte, will consider MSI.

I plan on running the OS on 2 SSDs (raid 1). The data array will be 2x4TB NAS drives (also RAID1). A third 4TB drive will be used for local backup (os image + RAID array backup).

So, I've been researching chipsets for awhile and my head is starting to spin. There is H81, B85, H97, and Z97, and any I've missed.

H81 seems to be out (only 2 ram slots on all the ones I've seen).

Outside of that, B85 and H97 seem suited for what I wanted to do. All the advice I see says to get Z97 anyway even if not overclocking as those boards tend to be more 'competitive' and offer the better feature set and are better supported by the manufacturer.

I'd like to keep the price to under $100.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Its a little more at $110, but how about a proper workstation-grade board?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157414

 

[hoorah]

I'm not worried about an extra $10.

I looked at that board. I like that you get 8 sata ports. It also looks like you get dual gigabit nics, which is nice, but not something I particularly need.

Noob question, but what makes it workstation grade? I thought ASrock was a more budget oriented line from ASUS. Also, I notice it has 4 phase power. I know very little about power phases other than the 6 and 8 phase power of the Z97 boards are more desired. Is that simply for overclocking, or is there a reliability aspect to having better power delivery?

So short version - Am I trading better reliability for 2 extra SATA ports and dual nics?

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I looked at that board. I like that you get 8 sata ports. It also looks like you get dual gigabit nics, which is nice, but not something I particularly need.

Perhaps not now, but who knows if you'd like to add a few HDDs in the future?

The extra two SATA ports are also powered by a separate controller. Which can come in handy, because you can run the OS from one of those ports, freeing the 6 Intel ports for various arrays.

Noob question, but what makes it workstation grade? I thought ASrock was a more budget oriented line from ASUS.

That how they started, yes. But today Asrock boards are just as good (better in some cases) as boards from Asus, Gigabyte and MSI.

Also, don't confuse Asrock with Asrock Rack. They're the companies server division, which is separate from the consumer brand. So far as I know.

Also, I notice it has 4 phase power. I know very little about power phases other than the 6 and 8 phase power of the Z97 boards are more desired. Is that simply for overclocking, or is there a reliability aspect to having better power delivery?

Nothing in particular. But these boards are certified to run 24/7/365, so it gives a little peace of mind in a business setting. They are also designed for use with Windows Server, something you can't be certain of with consumer boards.

As for power phases, they're only relevant for (more-or-less extreme) overclocking. A 4+1 design can easily handle even a 4790K at stock. Plus the fact that you never overclock a business server...

So short version - Am I trading better reliability for 2 extra SATA ports and dual nics?

No, not really. You can never be certain about reliability of components. The most expensive server board can fail tomorrow without warning, and the cheapest H81 board can last 10 years.

For server reliability you also really need to look at the power delivery. A UPS is mandatory, its a good idea to use a high quality PSU and so forth f.x.

 

[hoorah]

Perhaps not now, but who knows if you'd like to add a few HDDs in the future?

The extra two SATA ports are also powered by a separate controller. Which can come in handy, because you can run the OS from one of those ports, freeing the 6 Intel ports for various arrays.



That how they started, yes. But today Asrock boards are just as good (better in some cases) as boards from Asus, Gigabyte and MSI.

Also, don't confuse Asrock with Asrock Rack. They're the companies server division, which is separate from the consumer brand. So far as I know.



Nothing in particular. But these boards are certified to run 24/7/365, so it gives a little peace of mind in a business setting. They are also designed for use with Windows Server, something you can't be certain of with consumer boards.

As for power phases, they're only relevant for (more-or-less extreme) overclocking. A 4+1 design can easily handle even a 4790K at stock. Plus the fact that you never overclock a business server...



No, not really. You can never be certain about reliability of components. The most expensive server board can fail tomorrow without warning, and the cheapest H81 board can last 10 years.

For server reliability you also really need to look at the power delivery. A UPS is mandatory, its a good idea to use a high quality PSU and so forth f.x.

Thanks. Sorry I was unclear at first - I'd definitely be interested in 8 sata ports for future expansion, I just dont think we'd used the dual nics.

I'm not sure what you mean by being able to run windows from one RAID controller freeing up the other for other arrays. Can you not have windows and a separate RAID array on the same RAID controller?

For example - on a single chip, 6 sata port board could I not do 2x SSD raid 1 and then another 2x4TB raid 1 array? Because thats what I'm trying to do. If I need 2 separate controller cards then that forces my hand to either get a dual controller board or I need a separate controller.

And no, I am not going to be overclocking this, but a friend of mine ran an AMD HTPC off of an MSI board that ended up failing due to a somewhat common (for that board) VRM failure. So, I'm interested in better power components on the board if they relate to reliability.

And yes, we run the server on a UPS.

I just noticed that gigabyte has an H97 thats going to be a shellshocker deal later today. It seems to get pretty good reviews on amazon. Reviews are sparse on newegg. Seems like a good number of features. I do like the ASrock board being designed for 24/7 use though...decisions.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

For example - on a single chip, 6 sata port board could I not do 2x SSD raid 1 and then another 2x4TB raid 1 array? Because thats what I'm trying to do. If I need 2 separate controller cards then that forces my hand to either get a dual controller board or I need a separate controller.

First off, SSDs do not need to be raided. For three reasons:

1) Performance scales with capacity. Higher capacity drives simply perform better due to more physical NAND.
2) You're introducing multiple failure points for practically no reason.
3) If you're serious about SSD performance, you should look at PCIe drives like the Intel SSD 750 (or its enterprise cousin, the DC P3500/3600/3700). A single SATA SSD has more performance then a system drive will ever need.

What I'd do is use a single SATA SSD on the Asmedia controller for the system (OS) drive, then use the Intel ports to do 2x 2x4TB RAID1 arrays. Hook the backup drive to the second SATA port on the Asmedia. That leaves you two of the Intel ports for future expansion.

Happy to help out...

 

[hoorah]

First off, SSDs do not need to be raided. For three reasons:

1) Performance scales with capacity. Higher capacity drives simply perform better due to more physical NAND.
2) You're introducing multiple failure points for practically no reason.
3) If you're serious about SSD performance, you should look at PCIe drives like the Intel SSD 750 (or its enterprise cousin, the DC P3500/3600/3700). A single SATA SSD has more performance then a system drive will ever need.

What I'd do is use a single SATA SSD on the Asmedia controller for the system (OS) drive, then use the Intel ports to do 2x 2x4TB RAID1 arrays. Hook the backup drive to the second SATA port on the Asmedia. That leaves you two of the Intel ports for future expansion.

Happy to help out...

I had it in my original post, but maybe you got the impression I was running RAID 0 on the SSDs for performance? What I meant was that I was planning on running the SSDs in RAID 1 as well, for reliability.

So the setup would be 2xSSDs in RAID 1, then 2x4TB drives in RAID 1 as well. The last drive will be a single 4TB drive as a local backup. I don't need the backup to be a RAID array.

In the end, this file server is going to be installed at a company office that is somewhat far away from me (2 hour drive). I'm trying to go for a setup such that if a drive fails, I can ship a new drive and someone local can rebuild the array (and the system will continue to function in the interim).

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I had it in my original post, but maybe you got the impression I was running RAID 0 on the SSDs for performance? What I meant was that I was planning on running the SSDs in RAID 1 as well, for reliability.

So the setup would be 2xSSDs in RAID 1, then 2x4TB drives in RAID 1 as well. The last drive will be a single 4TB drive as a local backup. I don't need the backup to be a RAID array.

That was the impression I got...

In that case, just hook the backup drive alone to the Asmedia ports. Then you still have two ports from the Intel controller for expansion. A backup drive doesn't exactly need a high performance controller.

This would work with any board featuring a secondary 3rd party controller BTW.

In the end, this file server is going to be installed at a company office that is somewhat far away from me (2 hour drive). I'm trying to go for a setup such that if a drive fails, I can ship a new drive and someone local can rebuild the array (and the system will continue to function in the interim).

You should think very hard on that. What is your time, and any downtime, worth, in case someone mucks it up at the other end. Downtime can potentially cost... more... then having you spend 4 hours on the road.

If you have someone you can trust with hardware knowledge over there, it can be a good solution though.

 

[hoorah]

That was the impression I got...

In that case, just hook the backup drive alone to the Asmedia ports. Then you still have two ports from the Intel controller for expansion. A backup drive doesn't exactly need a high performance controller.

This would work with any board featuring a secondary 3rd party controller BTW.



You should think very hard on that. What is your time, and any downtime, worth, in case someone mucks it up at the other end. Downtime can potentially cost... more... then having you spend 4 hours on the road.

If you have someone you can trust with hardware knowledge over there, it can be a good solution though.

Yeah....been dealing with this problem for a few years now with the current server. Sometimes it works out, other times not so much (talking through a repair over the phone).

Regardless of RAID or not, if the system won't boot someone will have to fix it or i will have to take a trip down. If I didn't do RAID, I could always put an image of the OS onto a new drive and have someone swap them, but murphys law says it will never be that simple.

There are some people that are borderline capable that I think have the aptitude for it, but I would prefer to test that theory over a bad external USB drive, not system critical stuff.

Part of this server replacement means I'm going to take the old drives (1TBs) out of the server and put them in an older NAS box I have down there to have an extra copy of some real mission critical stuff, just as a little extra safety net. Can't have too many backups.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Regardless of RAID or not, if the system won't boot someone will have to fix it or i will have to take a trip down. If I didn't do RAID, I could always put an image of the OS onto a new drive and have someone swap them, but murphys law says it will never be that simple.

You're guaranteed right. Nothing is ever as simple as it sounds. I have lost count of the times I've had to fix someone's "simple" solution.

It really is important to think things though, and plan for the absolute worst case scenario. Because when things do go wrong, and trust me, they will, usually at the most inopportune time imaginable, you already have a solution ready to go. So you don't have to start from scratch, frantically trying to find one. That is usually when things go really pear-shaped...

Can't have too many backups.

Indeed. Can never be too careful with important data.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I'm always making microcosmic comparisons in various ways. For instance, I've actually got it into my head that Intuit's "Quicken Home and Business" allows you to create "corporate" accounting-report modules, or do PAC/FEC reporting and accounting the same way -- almost . . . elegantly.

So when you say "WHS-2011" for this small business environment, I believe it. After all -- it's basic, stripped-down Win Server 2008 R2.

I'm also almost aghast at the AsRock board's price, for being spec'd as a "server" mobo. They should certainly have all the drivers available for 2008 R2, if that's the case.

So to share my "microcosm," I've got my WHS OS on an SSD connected to a $60 PCI-E SATA-III controller. Another HDD -- <= 320GB -- sits in a hot-swap bay, and gets incremental Windows image backups nightly. So that only leaves a data array or pool -- whichever -- to back up. If it's RAID of any flavor, you can do image backups of that, too.

There are more solutions crafted almost specifically for WHS2011, 2008 and 2012 other than simply RAID. I won't pontificate about that. It's already scattered around in other threads. The various RAID options would work just fine the way it seems from your concept description. I'd most certainly use HDDs for your data, though. Unless you want to spend money on SSDs, but that . . . just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Win Server 2012 Essentials probably runs around $350+ with the basic 5-CAL access -- maybe it's more of them. You can certainly re-install WHS on new hardware without a hitch for now, and plan on an OS upgrade for later. They even offer an "Academic" license for Essentials @ ~$260, but I don't think that would be kosher for a money-making operation.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

That Asrock board is a no go. For a file server, you want/need Intel NICs. For realz.

This looks like a job for Supermicro. Something like this'd work ok too. (I've had reasonably good luck with Newegg's open box stuff.)

 

[hoorah]

So when you say "WHS-2011" for this small business environment, I believe it. After all -- it's basic, stripped-down Win Server 2008 R2.

I'm also almost aghast at the AsRock board's price, for being spec'd as a "server" mobo. They should certainly have all the drivers available for 2008 R2, if that's the case.

Yes, WHS2011 has been working well for them so far. I had considered stepping up to WS2012R2 essentials, but couldn't justify the cost at this point for what they do. It would get them some fancy office365 integration and a domain controller (that would mostly be unused), but not much else.

I'm starting to lean towards that ASrock board a bit more now. I tend to go for the latest and greatest chipsets (hoping to fend off any future incompatibility down the road re: upgrades) but Z87 and server oriented design are not bad for $110.

So to share my "microcosm," I've got my WHS OS on an SSD connected to a $60 PCI-E SATA-III controller. Another HDD -- <= 320GB -- sits in a hot-swap bay, and gets incremental Windows image backups nightly. So that only leaves a data array or pool -- whichever -- to back up. If it's RAID of any flavor, you can do image backups of that, too.

There are more solutions crafted almost specifically for WHS2011, 2008 and 2012 other than simply RAID. I won't pontificate about that. It's already scattered around in other threads. The various RAID options would work just fine the way it seems from your concept description. I'd most certainly use HDDs for your data, though. Unless you want to spend money on SSDs, but that . . . just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Interesting setup. I'm still waffling on doing 2xSSDs in RAID 1 vs just imaging the SSD onto a spinning drive that can be swapped out in the event of failure. Newegg has the 850 Evo on sale for $90 for 250GB (which was my drive of choice) today, so I need to get off my ass and make the call.

As for the data storage, I just scored 3x4TB HGST NAS drives from a newegg sale for $154 each. 2 will be in RAID 1, the third will be a single drive as a local backup. In the future, an 8TB drive can be added and the RAID array can be rebuilt as a 3x4TB RAID5 array.

Win Server 2012 Essentials probably runs around $350+ with the basic 5-CAL access -- maybe it's more of them. You can certainly re-install WHS on new hardware without a hitch for now, and plan on an OS upgrade for later. They even offer an "Academic" license for Essentials @ ~$260, but I don't think that would be kosher for a money-making operation.

Like I mentioned before, I wanted to go to WS2012 but just couldn't justify the cost. When I looked it seemed to be around $400-450. I was thinking 250 (as thats the number I hear from things like homeservershow) but then realized that was academic and wouldn't fly. We've been perpetually on the fence about hiring an IT consultant to handle this stuff if the company gets bigger and the server needs more attention, so I wanted to have a good base that could handle a domain should we go that route, but $400 is a lot to spend 'just in case'.

If we switch to a domain, we'll bite the bullet and reformat then.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Yes, WHS2011 has been working well for them so far. I had considered stepping up to WS2012R2 essentials, but couldn't justify the cost at this point for what they do. It would get them some fancy office365 integration and a domain controller (that would mostly be unused), but not much else.

I'm starting to lean towards that ASrock board a bit more now. I tend to go for the latest and greatest chipsets (hoping to fend off any future incompatibility down the road re: upgrades) but Z87 and server oriented design are not bad for $110.



Interesting setup. I'm still waffling on doing 2xSSDs in RAID 1 vs just imaging the SSD onto a spinning drive that can be swapped out in the event of failure. Newegg has the 850 Evo on sale for $90 for 250GB (which was my drive of choice) today, so I need to get off my ass and make the call.

As for the data storage, I just scored 3x4TB HGST NAS drives from a newegg sale for $154 each. 2 will be in RAID 1, the third will be a single drive as a local backup. In the future, an 8TB drive can be added and the RAID array can be rebuilt as a 3x4TB RAID5 array.




Like I mentioned before, I wanted to go to WS2012 but just couldn't justify the cost. When I looked it seemed to be around $400-450. I was thinking 250 (as thats the number I hear from things like homeservershow) but then realized that was academic and wouldn't fly. We've been perpetually on the fence about hiring an IT consultant to handle this stuff if the company gets bigger and the server needs more attention, so I wanted to have a good base that could handle a domain should we go that route, but $400 is a lot to spend 'just in case'.

If we switch to a domain, we'll bite the bullet and reformat then.

Nothing wrong with that AsRock board -- just test out the features before letting it "go live." Supposedly there's a range of socket-1150 Xeons, or you could still start with an i3. To reveal the truth about my rig, it's using a Q6600! There's likely a 4-core Xeon that would cost less than the OS upgrade -- just guessing.

Somebody mentioned using a server-flavor of Linux or Ubuntu. You'd have to judge that or assess on your own. But its an option.

On the boot-disk, I can't even remember what was suggested for WHS2011, but I started with a 60GB SSD, then swapped it for a 120GB. All said and done -- overprovisioning, etc. -- 100GB partition, and the used space as grown to 56. The HDD backup will also grow, so 250 to 320 is not unreasonable. My goal was to minimize the number of spinners other than the 4x 2TB pool.

 

[386DX]

I had it in my original post, but maybe you got the impression I was running RAID 0 on the SSDs for performance? What I meant was that I was planning on running the SSDs in RAID 1 as well, for reliability.

So the setup would be 2xSSDs in RAID 1, then 2x4TB drives in RAID 1 as well. The last drive will be a single 4TB drive as a local backup. I don't need the backup to be a RAID array.

In the end, this file server is going to be installed at a company office that is somewhat far away from me (2 hour drive). I'm trying to go for a setup such that if a drive fails, I can ship a new drive and someone local can rebuild the array (and the system will continue to function in the interim).

First for any server you should at least use RAID 1, no if's or but's about it. Secondly it sounds like you want to be able to remotely manage these systems. If you insist on building a system them use server grade parts, this means C2XX chip set and not the Z, H, chip set designed for desktop. Third use ECC RAM. Lastly make sure the board has some type of remote management port, these are usually called IPMI, some vendors have different names like HP calls it iLO, Dell DRAC, etc. They all provide similar service allows you to completely control the system over a network. This means KVM before OS loads so you can change BiOS settings, remotely turn on/off system. Lastly you may consider an off the shelf system from HP, Dell, Lenovo. It may cost more but usually comes with features like hot swap etc. Simple enough that you can get anyone to swap drives without any tools or turning the system off.

 

[freeskier93]

Its a little more at $110, but how about a proper workstation-grade board?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157414

"Xeon processor E3-1200 v3 series processor support is an extended advantage provided by ASRock Rack. It is out of warranty, user's discretion is required."



Either go all the way and get a real server board (should at the very least officially support Xeons), or just get a nice Z97 board.

 

[Auric]

"Xeon processor E3-1200 v3 series processor support is an extended advantage provided by ASRock Rack. It is out of warranty, user's discretion is required."



Either go all the way and get a real server board (should at the very least officially support Xeons), or just get a nice Z97 board.

Is that unique though or an Intel segmentation thing about the chipsets? ASRock CS226 boards for 1150 state likewise about i5/i7 because they are really intended for use with Xeon or i3 having ECC capability. As 386DX says, better going that route.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

First for any server you should at least use RAID 1, no if's or but's about it. Secondly it sounds like you want to be able to remotely manage these systems. If you insist on building a system them use server grade parts, this means C2XX chip set and not the Z, H, chip set designed for desktop. Third use ECC RAM. Lastly make sure the board has some type of remote management port, these are usually called IPMI, some vendors have different names like HP calls it iLO, Dell DRAC, etc. They all provide similar service allows you to completely control the system over a network. This means KVM before OS loads so you can change BiOS settings, remotely turn on/off system. Lastly you may consider an off the shelf system from HP, Dell, Lenovo. It may cost more but usually comes with features like hot swap etc. Simple enough that you can get anyone to swap drives without any tools or turning the system off.

I agree completely, but sometimes the budget just isn't there, and one has to make do.

ECC requires Xeon + C-series chipset + ECC RAM itself. No way that's going to happen on a $100 budget.

"Xeon processor E3-1200 v3 series processor support is an extended advantage provided by ASRock Rack. It is out of warranty, user's discretion is required."

It isn't exactly a secret that Intel's consumer chipsets doesn't support Xeons, and vice versa. C-series usually doesn't support consumer i3/i5/i7's. If they do its just as much a hack-job... :whiste:

Either go all the way and get a real server board (should at the very least officially support Xeons), or just get a nice Z97 board.

Thanks for a good laugh. I think the highlighted part speaks for itself...

Is that unique though or an Intel segmentation thing about the chipsets? ASRock CS226 boards for 1150 state likewise about i5/i7 because they are really intended for use with Xeon or i3 having ECC capability. As 386DX says, better going that route.

Its a segmentation thing. Look above...