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Help me build my friend a recording rig

S

stinkynathan

Senior member
My friend is a sound guy and is looking at getting into recording. We're checking out the possibility of building a machine since the pre-built ones start at $2,000.

1. Here's what he says: "I'm looking for something that won't bog down while running thirty plus simultaneous tracks. I might need to insert fifteen different effects all at once. I really just want something that will be powerful enough to do the job, and most reliable."

He's wanting to be able to do real time effects. I assume he wants to run SONAR plus whatever else it takes to get him going. He does want it to be a rack-mount system.

2. I think he's trying to keep it in the $1000-1500 range if possible.

3. USA

4. I'm a fan of what's cheap and gets the job done. He couldn't care less.

5. He has no major components. Might use spare keyboard/mouse if he has them, but I'm including them in my quote anyway.

6. Read the other thread on a recording rig, but didn't get much info from it.

7. No OC. Reliability and quiet is key.

Here's what I came up with in my hour of browsing tonight:
Total: $1122.39

AND Either:
OR
With option 1: $1622.36
With option 2: $1382.36

What we don't know:
1. Rack-mount. Specs seem ambiguous on that site. I assume these are all built for ATX form factors. Are there any specific rack-mount chassis companies that I should look at?

2. Horsepower wise, how are we looking here? I assume he may want to examine the possibility of using 4GB of RAM. Is a single large drive enough in terms of throughput for the recording processes? Dual-core enough? Should I look into quad-core?

3. The thing I really don't know about is the interface between the rig and whatever other equipment he may have. He's really good in the sound gear area, but knows little about computers. What parts do we need to look at for interface between the computer and a board (or however it works)?

4. Any other suggestions or things that I should be aware of?

Thanks for the help!
 
The E6850 is alot faster than the X2 6400, and also puts out far less heat, which is a good thing when you need a quiet computer. You'll want that option, but why would you want such an old, expensive motherboard? Get this one instead. Also, why would you want to spend $100 on 2GB of RAM, when you can get 4GB of RAM for less money?

And it looks like that case you linked to accepts standard ATX motherboards, which are usually 12x9.6 inches. You might want to actually call them or send them an e-mail and ask, though. My only other suggestion is to buy fans that are known to be quiet, from manufacturers like Scythe, Yate Loon, or Panaflo.
 
You forgot the sound card. An inexpensive solution would be something like the m-Audio 1010LT, which has dropped nearly 50% in price since its initial release, you can find them for around $200 now. There's a Power Seller on eBay dumping them for $170. But your friend may need something a little more powerful...

1. I'm pretty sure it's an eATX case. It should be compatible with any ATX mobo. I think you picked a fine case, no need to look at other comapnies, imho.

2. Getting more RAM would be beneficial, but XP32 will only see about 3.2G. Yes, a single large drive would be fine. For this usage, no, dual-core is not enough...multi-threaded apps like sound mixers benefit from as many cores as you throw at them.

3. This is where the sound card comes in, I believe.

4. Nah, I think you've got a pretty good start here
 
Originally posted by: myocardia
The E6850 is alot faster than the X2 6400, and also puts out far less heat, which is a good thing when you need a quiet computer. You'll want that option, but why would you want such an old, expensive motherboard? Get this one instead. Also, why would you want to spend $100 on 2GB of RAM, when you can get 4GB of RAM for less money?
Click to expand...

So is it worth the $240 increase in price to go Intel C2D over AMD X2? That's a pretty good chunk of change.

Originally posted by: myocardia
And it looks like that case you linked to accepts standard ATX motherboards, which are usually 12x9.6 inches. You might want to actually call them or send them an e-mail and ask, though. My only other suggestion is to buy fans that are known to be quiet, from manufacturers like Scythe, Yate Loon, or Panaflo.
Click to expand...

I should have prefaced the topic with, "I've been out of the loop for a while. The last machine I built was this C2D machine that I built from mostly used parts from FT/FT." I picked most of the parts by looking at what was rated the highest on Newegg. I will add your suggestions to the list, though.

Originally posted by: Slugbait
You forgot the sound card. An inexpensive solution would be something like the m-Audio 1010LT, which has dropped nearly 50% in price since its initial release, you can find them for around $200 now. There's a Power Seller on eBay dumping them for $170. But your friend may need something a little more powerful...

1. I'm pretty sure it's an eATX case. It should be compatible with any ATX mobo. I think you picked a fine case, no need to look at other comapnies, imho.

2. Getting more RAM would be beneficial, but XP32 will only see about 3.2G. Yes, a single large drive would be fine. For this usage, no, dual-core is not enough...multi-threaded apps like sound mixers benefit from as many cores as you throw at them.

3. This is where the sound card comes in, I believe.

4. Nah, I think you've got a pretty good start here
Click to expand...

2. I assume these RAM limits disappear once I move to XP64 and Vista. I'll look into that. Is this a case where he's going to be pretty unhappy with a dual-core? We're talking big bucks for that upgrade to quad-core.

How much space for projects does a 750GB drive give him?

3. I'll be looking more into these sound cards.

Thanks for the help. Any other seasoned sound/recording people have any input?
 
Originally posted by: stinkynathan
Is this a case where he's going to be pretty unhappy with a dual-core? We're talking big bucks for that upgrade to quad-core.
Click to expand...

The following quote should answer that question sufficiently...

"I'm looking for something that won't bog down while running thirty plus simultaneous tracks. I might need to insert fifteen different effects all at once. I really just want something that will be powerful enough to do the job
Click to expand...

How much space for projects does a 750GB drive give him?
Click to expand...

It should be plenty at first, especially if he cleans up. If necessary, another drive can be added later.
 
Multiple effects with multiple tracks requires low latency. Stick with intel (x38) and Core2 for best results. 7200rpm drives may not be fast enough. Are the effects/program 24 bit?

For sound interface a firewire recording interface/bus is highly recommended. This will give the best SNR. Motu and Echo make good ones.
 
Originally posted by: stinkynathan
7. No OC. Reliability and quiet is key.

Total: $1122.39

Click to expand...

I have some suggestions for the items that I left in the quote:

Rackmount case: Antec Take 4 $287 shipped (may be cheaper elsewhere)
If you're wanting a quiet rackmount 4U system, this is the case to get for two reasons. 1) Smallest fan is 92mm. 2) Hard drive grommets. Indeed you can think of this as an Antec P180, just shrunk down a bit and laying on the side.

RAM: This RAM will "force" you to overclock because to run at rated speeds/latencies, it requires 2.1v. Also, you can find equally overclocked RAM for the after rebate price, but without the rebate. My suggestion is to find some DDR2-800 that requires only 1.8v and is CAS 5. That is official JEDEC specs and is most likely to work w/o problems and without having to manually change settings. Also, that kind of RAM tends to be cheaper.

Video card: You are right, much more than needed. Also, do not get a card that has a fan on it. Remember, "Reliability and quiet is key." Those dinky little video card fans are the FIRST to die in a system due to dust getting in there. Also, they will be the noisiest fan in the system. Go for a cheap passive 8400GS, or a passive 8500GT.

PSU: The NeoHE isn't bad, but you may want to give the included PSU a shot. Alternately, look for one of the Earthwatts units on sale or with rebate. There's no side window so don't pay extra for modular cables.

FANS: You can try out the included TriCool fans at lowest speed. If still too noisy, then replace them. Also, if they aren't already soft mounted, then get some soft mounts for them instead of hard mounting them using the normal metal fan screws.

CPU cooler: I'd recommend a Scythe Ninja (or Mini Ninja if regular one doesn't fit). The reason is that the design of the case has two fans (92mm and 120mm) in the back corner of the chassis next to the CPU area similar to the two 120mm fans in the P180 case. This is almost a perfect low noise match for the Ninja since the fans are so close that you won't have to mount a fan on the Ninja.
 
As for interface to the recording gear, USB 2.0 and Firewire is the industry standard. Make sure that the Firewire ports are of the 6-pin variety, this will make his life easier.

Regarding HDD space, working with 30 tracks @ 16 bit 44 Khz (CD-quality) with a backup and an undo file, will take up roughly 13,5 Mb of space per second of recording. (roughly 0,15 Mb per track x 30 tracks x 3 for backup and undo file). He will probably use 48 Khz recordings though, so lets say 15 Mb/second.
This means that a 750 Gb HDD will give roughly 14 hours of recording.

The HDD will need to write about 5 Mb/second, this should not a problem.

Regarding sound card, your friend probably knows what he wants. I prefer external Firewire cards, but he might like an internal.

Consider an extra display. I use Cubase and Reason, and keeping them on 2 displays is a big benefit.

Get an extarnal HDD or a NAS, and make a scheduled backup, preferably each day. I use Syncback for backups, but any program will do.

Regarding CPU, I use an AMD 64 3000, about 10 simultaneous tracks, about 10 effects, and a software synth (Reason). The CPU does this without issues. Thus, I suspect a quad-core is over the top, and that the dual core will be plenty.
 
If you plan is to record sound then it is probably best to record the sound into a separate Mixer and take the Mixer output and bring that through a sound card that does hardware encoding in real time. The other option is to record tracks separately for the instruments and the voices of each person and then record them together. There could be advantages and disadvatages to both options. Making a studio master you would want separate tracks.

Check out differrent Hard Drives. This hard drive is more manageable and is designed for multiple sources to be written at once. It is really designed for use with Multiple Security Video Feeds. I have never used one of these.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822148272

May be worth looking into.


If you record 30 tracks at once, how do you control all the inputs?

Special Sound Cards?

Then the sound cards are what is most important.

Sounds like the video is not that important to you It could even be integrated. However you may want to insure the motherboard has the proper number of the right kind of slots for input. If you can use PCI-E input devices it will be more future proof.

A Core 2 Quad Processor is probably best. Unless you are going to get a MAC.

http://www.tweakheadz.com/rigs.htm

Some devices require expensive multi-channel Firewire cards.


 
I have a buddy that does recording on a DigiRack 002 connected to a P4 2.4C system in a 4U rackmount box. He handles 16 tracks simultaneously without really straining his CPU. Actually found the amount of RAM was more important than raw cpu power (moving from 1GB to 2GB yielded a big improvement in speed and smoothness of operation). Don't waste the money on a quad core processor, you just don't need that kind of power for this duty (and you don't want all that extra heat generation either--requiring better but louder cooling).

I would suggest going with an e6750 on a good motherboard (IP35 Pro, GA-P35-DS3P, etc) and use 2GB DDR2-800 (Kingston N5 or Crucial Ballistix) if working in XP Pro or 4GB if using Vista 64 (64-bit OS will detect/address 4GB correctly). The stock Intel hsf should provide adequate cooling for the processor and is actually fairly quiet. The only reason to go aftermarket is if you want to try to find a nearly silent fan system. Note that the abit motherboard (IP35 Pro) has an excellent fan controller that slows fan revolutions down if the system isn't running hot so you should get very quiet performance.

Save the money on the video card--you just need the minimum that will run his monitor properly. As mentioned, a passively cooled 8400GS or 8500GT will do the job nicely and won't add any unnecessary noise to the system.

The Antec rackmount looks great, good 92mm fans generate much less noise than typical low quality 80mm fans (120 is even better).
 
Video is irrelevant here a mobo with onboard video will be fine, don't waste money on a video card. CPU is almost irrelevant, a quad would be way way overkill, I recommend a cheap dualcore like the E2160 or E4300

Spend your money on ram, fast hdds, and sound card(s). I like the echo firewire cards

Two of these make a nice 24 track system. At $600 each it should fit within the $2k budget
 
Video is irrelevant here a mobo with onboard video will be fine, don't waste money on a video card.
Click to expand...

Unless he wants to follow my 2-display suggestion, that is. In that cage, the suggested 8400GS or 8500GT are good options.

Those Audiofire12s look very interesting, Guitardaddy. I might want to consider them for my soon-to-be new studio. Do you have first-hand experience?
 
What da Voodoo Daddie sez:

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
Video is irrelevant here a mobo with onboard video will be fine, don't waste money on a video card. CPU is almost irrelevant, a quad would be way way overkill, I recommend a cheap dualcore like the E2160 or E4300

Spend your money on ram, fast hdds, and sound card(s). I like the echo firewire cards

Two of these make a nice 24 track system. At $600 each it should fit within the $2k budget
Click to expand...

Those cards look cool - don't know anything about the software, though . . .


 
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