Help Me build a SERVER. I have a Few Questions.

[Purvin]

I am getting 3mbit dsl soon (Static IP). I want to make some money from it. What do you recommend? I need help with building a server and what i should do like setup web server or what?

I have linux / windows 2000 server bought and also have old copies of NT4 Server too. What do you recommend?

I have 300gb of storage now ready to go.

I need help in choosing
MOTHERBOARD
PROCESSOR (AMD, XEON, P3, P2 Etc.)
MEMORY TYPE (DDR, SDRAM, RAMBUS etc.)
Software etc. Please help if you can.
Case & Power Supply (300watt, 400 or 530watt).

Email Me please. [email]purvinv@hotmail.com[/email]

I want somethign that don't takeup too much time to maintain because i am still in college. I have right now a P2-400 256 MB Ram 300gb hd. But now i want to start hosting pages or something and i guess i need a BETTER & FASTER SERVER for that stuff. Want to Start a small web hosting thing and charge people some $$$ to host pages and hopefully this will help pay for college & dsl.

MY BUDGET IS MAX OF $1400. I already have the Hard Drive.

THANKS
PURVIN VAKHARWALA
Email Me please. [email]purvinv@hotmail.com[/email]

 

[Whitedog]

You just need TONS of memory...

Get an ASUS A7V and 1 gig athlon and put 1 gig of ram in it (2-512's) That'll run you about... a thousand...

Get an Inwin Q500 tower with 300w ps.. Good entry level case with PLENTY of room (6 internal hard drive bays) that's $100.

That will leave you 300 bux to play with to buy nic nacs.

MEMORY is the key though... You don't want your hard drive being accessed everytime your server gets hits...

You will want to buy another 512 megger before it's all said and done.

 

[Whitedog]

BTW, run Linux if you can.

 

[pm]

Well, I mostly agree with Whitedog.

Lots of memory, and make it ECC. Bit failures in 256MB at sea-level are starting to push under one per month - and it gets much worse if you add elevation. 1GB of memory will have a failure statistically once per week at sea level. Downtime is bad. Buy ECC. With memory prices being what they are, I'd get at least 512MB. DDR is out because it's not available and won't be available in volume for another couple of months, RDRAM is too expensive. Since you need to get a lot of memory consider getting registered (which requires a registered motherboard). ($300 for 512MB ECC registered PC133 SDRAM)

A dual-processor Pentium III 667 or 733MHz system would be what I would consider. Xeon's are too expensive. ($350 for two socket 370 P3 733MHz CPU's)

Get a solid motherboard by a good name brand. The Asus CUR-DLS is very good, but expensive (Serverworks LE chipset, up to 4GB SDRAM, 64-bit PCI, dual CPU, built-in SCSI, built-in LAN, built-in video) ($600). The Supermicro 370DLE is about half the cost of the Asus with most of it's features (~$300).

So, $950 for everything with the Supermicro board, or $1250 for the Asus CUR-DLS. Both of these boards have pretty much everything else you need. LAN, U160 SCSI controller, video, etc.

InWin Q500 for the case. Big and roomy, plenty of room for hard disks and cooling. ($100)

For software, I like Apache and Linux (Mandrake and Redhat are my two favorite distros). But recently I've been running Win2k and Xitami (open-source) and like this combo too. Win2k + Xitami is certainly a lot easier to setup. But Apache is a better overall solution - much more flexible IMO.

 

[damac]

if your just starting out a system running redhat and apache or zeus would be best unless you can't admin worth crap, and even then if you use nt and something happens and money and customers are on the line its bad news.

but spec wise you don't need all the major crap. All you need to start is a 400mhz processor with 256mb ram. You should also use a scsi system, but get a cheapo adaptec controller and use 80mb/sec lvd drives(those might cost a chunk of change still). You of course need a basic cd rom and floppy drive also.

You could even get away with non ecc ram but should get it anyways and if you need more ram youll find out and its cheap and hopefully the need is providing you with enough money to make it worthwhile.

the setup above can easily handle 10's of thousands of hits/day which is 1mb/sec or over which is a big chunk of change in bandwidth also.

I know this because I started running my own colocated box almost 2 years ago and started with a setup like that. believe it or not my tweaked system with more ram and that single processor was spitting out 3.5-4mb/sec at its peak before processor and ram limitations hit. Its more than adequate to start today if your just doing web pages and stuff. now databases, cgi files, scripts, etc. will burden your system more but you really have to know where you want to start and what your needs are.

 

[pm]

Ok, I agree with Damac, this box that I described is way over the top for starting web hosting. But you (Purvin) asked for a server that costs $1400 or less, and I described one that I would build for myself.

I still think a lot of memory is essential though - particularly if start to get a lot of hits. 256MB minimum (particularly with Win2k). And if you get a lot of memory (>256MB), then I strongly encourage ECC. Look at Sun's not-so-well-publicized server problems due to no ECC support in their L2 cache of their $50k+ servers. Servers were (are still?) crashing once per month at the altitude of Denver (5200 ft) and that was only 2MB. Get ECC and eliminate one major source of problems for servers with a lot of memory.

 

[damac]

error correcting. its a little bit more money and a little slower

 

[HollowWorm]

Why do people keep saying Linux is a better option than Windows 2000. I know Linux is getting better everyday, but Windows 2000/IIS combo makes a much better solution when it comes to performance. The only time I reboot my server is to install a patch. I guess that?s a downside. Not to mention Win2000 scales awesome. If he didn?t already have Windows 2000 I?d say go with Linux..ok maybe not..

http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/stories/pipreviews/0,9836,193175,00.html

http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/stories/pipreviews/0,9836,192765,00.html

 

[Smbu]

"I have right now a P2-400 256 MB Ram 300gb hd"

You have a 300gb hd?

 

[Sunner]

He didnt say he had a 300 GB HD, he said he has 300 GB of HD, big difference

Anyway, if I were you, Id make sure to check the agreement you no doubt signed for the DSL line, since most(all?) DSL providers wont let you run web/ftp servers.

For small scale stuff, it doesnt really matter, but if you plan as large scale stuff as you seem to, they will notice the loads of HTTP requests inbound to you, and get more than a little suspicious

 

[Smbu]

That does make more sense. I thought it might be several drives, or a typo for a 30gb drive, but since he typed it twice in his post it's most likely several drives.

 

[Purvin]

I have 5 drives total combining to 30gb.
Also raid option what should i do.. I need a motherboard with raid dont i they are all IDE'S for now. So how can i work with that.
What MB supports raid or get extra raid controller.

What the differnce between SERVER BOARD VS DUAL PROCESSOR. I mean i know serverboards have 64bit pci is that good.. tell me what i should build.

THANKS
PURVIN

 

[Kwad Guy]

Here's what I'd recommend:

Go buy the ML350 600Mhz/133FSB server that Compaq has been
closing out.
You can find one in stock at CDW.com right now (or as of last night
anyway) for $730. This comes with a ServerWorks motherboard, dual
capable (comes with a single 600Mhz processor), a hot swap cage
for four drives, two open bays for additional hard drives/whatever
(plus a 68pin SCSI cable and IDE connections to connect to them),
two 64bit PCI slots and 3 32 bit PCI slots, a dedicated ISA slot,
built in ethernet, etc. Three years on-site warranty, too.

Now, if you want to use that hot swap bay, you'll need to locate
some Compaq hot swap drive trays. These will probably run you $100
each. If you want to use a second processor, you'll need to locate
a VRM for the second processor...These are hard/impossible to find
outside of Compaq processor upgrade kits, so that'll cost you, too.

But you don't need to use the second processor slot right away. And
if you want to get really cheap, you can just put hard drives in
the non-hotswap-bay and not have to spring for the drive trays right
away, either.

Oh, this server supports (only) PC133 *ECC* SDRAM, which is what
you want. It supports up to 2Gb, I think.

Just a thought.

Kwad

 

[bakassi]

Hey guys, I have a fairly similar question, so I thought I would just squat the thread.

I am building a website, and I am thinking about getting a server... but I have no clue on how to estimate my Hardware needs.

There is going to be 95% of dynamic content, PHP and MySQL, most of the pages (95%) won't be big... less than 4 KB. My goal is within the first 6 months to get 100,000 visits per day.

The hosting company that hosts my other sites offers Dell PowerApp Servers... are they any good?

With php, mysql, and apache under linux... which processor should I get, how much memory?

I was thinking about doing my ad tracking and statistics on another server to relief the main server . Would that be a good idea?

Does anybody know a site where I could get that kind of info?


Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[pm]

<< Why do people keep saying Linux is a better option than Windows 2000? >>


Because we've used both and we like Linux better, and because Linux and Apache are essentially free.

Nice solution, Kwad Guy. That's excellent bang for the buck.

Bakassi, you are talking a little more detailed than I know. I really don't know the requirements for those software packages. Have you read the article that Anand wrote on the servers for this site? It's pretty detailed on why he made the choices that he did.

 

[bakassi]

Thanks pm,

I didn't see that one... I am reading it at the monment.

 

[BoberFett]

I haven't seen backup mentioned anywhere here. If you're going to run a business on a computer, especially one where others pay you for uptime, you'd better be sure that computer is running 24/7. That means

Power backup: a UPS and redundant power supplies
Data backup: Tape drive, or at least some solution which will back up on a regular basis (every day usually)

As others have said, ECC RAM will help eliminate errors. For hard drives a RAID 1, 0+1, or 5 setup will improve hard drive uptime. Have spare components on hand. Your customers aren't willing to wait for a few days while a new NIC is being shipped to you.

 

[bakassi]

I have read &quot;Behind AnandTech - The Search for the Perfect Servers&quot;, thanks again pm.

I have another question now... how do you deploy your website over several different servers?

I probably will let my hosting company installing that... but I am writting my applications right now. I may want to add aditional web servers in the future; I would like to know how its done to prepare my software for that kind of upgrade.

Thanks.

 

[Purvin]

I am getting a good deal on the 3mbit sdsl its only $149.00 a month. Its actually 3 mbit down and 1.5mbit upload. Not sure why its SDSL but i get 2 static ip 1 i am using for personal 1 for this. I just want to help pay for college and something.

GIVE ME IDEAS ON WHAT TO RUN OR BUILD TO MAKE MONEY.

I just want a basic system now to start off with since for few months i will hardly have 1000 hits a day since i am starting from scratch.

But as soon as i get more customers i will expand more too.

I need help in choosing a good motherboard that is stable and cpu.
I want to make money with less time taking up for maintenance etc.
I have a Cyber power 720watt UPS System and i will get another UPS thing soon. I am not sure what kind of TAPE BACKUP to get any recommendations.

SO I basically need help in choossing a stable yet upgradable motehrboard with CPU that can handle the load if necessary and will be up and running 24/7. i might just setup this p2-400 with 256mb ram as backup or something.

ALSO REDUNDANT POWER SUPPLY DO ALL THESE MOTHERBAORD SUPPORT THAT OR HOW DOES THAT WORK I AM NOT SURE ABOUT THAT?

HELP...
THANKS AGAIN I have been learning a lot and i wont forget you guys. Everyone who have helped I will keep you guys in mind.

PURVIN
Email me if you got anything to SHARE

 

[Kwad Guy]

If you want a real 24/7 redundant server, you're in a whole
new country, price wise. You're looking at higher end servers,
with server specific motherboards. You may also want to start
considering a multiprocessor Xeon platform. In fact, with the
recent drop in the price of Xeon PII processors, that may be
your best bet, but it'll cost you more. A lot more.

For example, you could pick up a Intel SC450NX server, which
comes with 2-3 power supplies (1-2 redundant), 5 redundant fans
(aside from those in the power supplies), a 6 drive hot swap bay,
a motherboard that can accept up to 4Gb of memory, and slots for
up to four Xeon processors.

You can get PII Xeon 450Mhz/2Gb cache processors for around $200
each. That's only the start, though. Like most/all of these 4-way
servers, this one takes EDO memory. 168 pin, ECC, buffered. Expensive.
On the used market, you might be able to pick up 256 Mb for around
$400-500. For 1Gb (4x256Mb) expect to pay $1200-1600 on the used
market, and about almost double that from a new retailer!
The good news is that the SC450NX (Cabrillo) server comes with
generic drive rails and has generic hard drive connections, so any
SCSI SCA (hot swap 80 pin) drive will work...

But as you can see, this solution is quite a bit more expensive
than the server you're thinking of...But those 2Mb cache processors
are gonna be nice for a server, and the ability to have four of
them is nice, too!

Oh, and these servers are not built to be placed in your dorm room.
They're relatively noisy...Better to put in a closet

Kwad

 

[damac]

you really need to know what you want dood or your gonna need to spend a ton of money.

like has been said:

1. make sure your allowed to run business stuff off your dsl. I do not trust this connection for business use but what the hell. I colocate my server at a place for a year and a half now and they are better situated to deal with all the problems

2. unless you have a backup generator what are you gonna do if you actually are doing well and your site goes down? a home backup ps will only last minutes and power outages could last a while and kill any progress. another good reason for colocation.

3. redundant power supply is just like 2 power supplies in one so if one fails the other is their but I still believe you must switch the plugs! again this wont do you and good if the power goes out and these units are more expensive. your better off with a couple cheapos you can just swap out. You probably need a 300 watt power supply since its gutted of parts and that should be ok.

4. a p2 400 with 256+mb ram running redhat and apache can handle 100,000 hits/day or more. I have seen it happen but you have to know how to configure it all and its a bitch. if your running nt you now need a license which is some $$ and you still need to know how to configure your os, your web server, getting your programs and scripts to run with it, dns, email, etc. do you have these skills? its not as simple as buying win98 and running some program that does everything for you. internet servers are hard to tweak and need to be to stay up and perform well.

5. multiple servers can run the same site but this is like a cluster and say the incoming connection can be routed to the second machine if load becomes too big and/or you can have another server mirror everything on the first and load from it if the first server goes down. Their is an expensive web server called zeus that I use, and their is an extra fee for this type of software. I haven't a clue how it works in apache or nt. a second box could be the second dns which is easy but if you want to share requests between boxes it gets tricky.

 

[Purvin]

Thanks i will look into that.
So now i am thinking

should i get dual AMD OR PENTIUM or like build a machine with 1 ghz amd or should i buy 2 xeon pentium 2 450 or something. Somone sais you will get more out of a 1GHZ than dual xeons.

THANKS
PURVIN