Help. Making graphics card purchase soon!!!

[herewego2006]

Right off the bat I'd like to say that any help is appreciated because while I'm not computer illiterate or anything like that, the fast changing pace of technology leaves me clueless when it comes to upgrading.

So I guess I'll start with my system specs:

Dell Dimension 4600

3.0 GHz P4 HT
1 GB Ram
Nvidia Geforce FX5200 *ughhhhh*

And now I'll list my intentions with this machine.

1. Games. Primarily action and sports with very few RPG's. Titles like FEAR, the new Hitman, Doom 3, HL 2, etc... is the genre of games that interest me most.

2. Watching movies on my computer with the option of a TV-out (HD being optimal) if the oppurtunity cost isn't too high.

3. Absolutely no intention of video-editing or artistic stuff like that.

And now my issues/questions:

I'm not sure if my Dimension has an AGP slot. How do I find out? From opening it up and looking at the slots I see 3 pci slots which are whitish/off-white in color and one blue slot which currently holds my pci-express geforce fx5200. Apart from that I don't have a clue.

Which brings me to the question of which is better for my intended uses: between AGP and PCI/PCI-Express.

Furthermore, which direction should I go between ATI and Nvidia?

And as for finding an actual graphics card, well my limitations are as follows:
175$-215$ canadian before taxes as a budget. And as for outlets, the following places are where I'd like to purchase from. No particular order and I'm very open to suggestions.

www.futureshop.ca (because of occaisional sales)
www.bestbuy.ca (same reason as futureshop)
www.tigerdirect.ca
http://www.ncix.com/index.php
http://www.meilleursprix.ca/list-catego...ry=1&idsubcategory=1&idsub2category=-1

Basically, any help steering me away from a certain video card and any help steering me towards a particular card would be very cool.

 

[akshayt]

if it is fx 5200 most probably it is agp.
If you really want to play comfortably, I would suggest.
Sell old cpu,mobo, ram and graphic card, this well get you a lot of money

Get Amd 64bit 3000 venice
a cheap/average pci e mobo
1gb X 2 ram
X1800XT 256mb, if you can't afford this one then maybe a lower 7600GT

Let us say you get 200$ from your old system, check in market section, I don't know.
Then If you put in another 250$ or so, this makes it 450$. Let us say that you get your cpu and mobo and ram in 175-200$, wait for conroe and amd price cuts first, for graphic card try to get a 1800XT if you can.
You can overclock your cpu if requried and the it will match a amd 64bit 4000 class in most games atleast.

the fastest agp graphic card will be roughly equivalent or maybe even slower than a 7800GT/X800XL class gpud but it would costa whopping 300$.

 

[herewego2006]

Wow. So like my computer is already out-dated your saying?

Maybe I should of mentioned that for the games I listed, I'm not necessarily wanting 150% performance with everything at ultra-high and every 3D detail boosted up.

 

[996GT2]

Nah, your Dell is still good for gaming if you have an AGP/PCIe slot. Of course, if it has AGP, don't expect the highest performance out of games. However, you need to determine which one you have first since most computers do not have both

This is a picture of an AGP slot...notice the black AGP slot is is SHORTER than the white PCI slots around it
http://www.hardwarelux.de/Images/Shuttle/AK37GTR/10140015.jpg

This is a picture of a PCI-Express X16 slot (top slot)...it is LONGER than the white PCI slots around it:
http://greyghost.dyndns.org/pci-express/pcie-slot-medium.jpg

My guess is that you have an AGP slot, b/c I have a Dell Dimension 4550 and it has an AGP slot. Also the majority of FX5200s were probably AGP.

Determine what slot you have and then we can get to some recommendations for cards

 

[herewego2006]

When you put it that way, I definately have an AGP slot. The slot my current card is plugged into is about a third shorter than the rest of the normal white slots and it sports a snazzy blue color.

 

[Ika]

AGP slot is probably what you have. Your computer is not outdated, just old . If you don't plan on upgrading for a long time, then I would actually suggest you get a new system once Conroe comes out, as the performance benefit will be huge compared to your system. If you're still looking to go AGP, the fastest card you can get is a 7800GS, but in the case of value, the .... whats the best AGP value card? hmm... maybe you can look for a used 6800GT on the For Sale/Trade forum here. It should be less than $150.

Now, if you have a PCI-e slot, your options are greatly increased. If you DO have PCI-e, then your system will be good to go for a while. If you're on a budget, I would suggest either the 7600GT for around $150 US, or the X1800XT for around $220 US (oh btw, this is NewEgg's price, but I dont know about other vendors). The X1800XT performs much better than the 7600GT does and if you have the spare cash, spring for the X1800XT.

 

[996GT2]

well, now that we've established that you have AGP, here are some choices in your price range

ATi All-In-Wonder X800XL $199
This card will let you watch movies and such since it has a TV tuner built in...also X800XL core is great for playing most games, just don't expect really really screaming performance out of FEAR


Also that's a very good price for an AIW X800XL, and when OC'd you can approach X800XT/X50XT speeds as this card has 16 pixel pipes out of the box
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=18587&vpn=100-714500&manufacture=ATI

Also this 6800GS AGP from eVGA will be great for most games also, but it is a bit over your budget. Performance-wise it should be similar to the X800, but I will steer you toward the ATi card because of the good price
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/...item-details.asp?EdpNo=1755110&CatId=0

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: 996GT2
well, now that we've established that you have AGP, here are some choices in your price range

ATi All-In-Wonder X800XL $199
This card will let you watch movies and such since it has a TV tuner built in...also X800XL core is great for playing most games, just don't expect really really screaming performance out of FEAR


Also that's a very good price for an AIW X800XL, and when OC'd you can approach X800XT/X50XT speeds as this card has 16 pixel pipes out of the box
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=18587&vpn=100-714500&manufacture=ATI

Also this 6800GS AGP from eVGA will be great for most games also, but it is a bit over your budget. Performance-wise it should be similar to the X800, but I will steer you toward the ATi card because of the good price
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/...item-details.asp?EdpNo=1755110&CatId=0

That AIW X800XL is a good find in his price range. I've been looking for a bit now, and haven't found anything better.

I found this: XFX 6800 Xtreme, which probably isn't bad for the money. I think I would take the AIW X800XL over this though. Although it is very difficult to find good reviews and comparisons for midrange cards because there are some many cards with very small differences.

 

[996GT2]

The 6800XT (Xtreme) is not a very good card, only 8 pixel pipelines and a rather low core clock speed. Compare this with the 12 pixel pipes of the 6800GS (and a high core clock) and the 16 pixel pipes of teh AIW X800XL with a moderate core clock, and it can't really compete. The performance of the 6800XT is closer to that of the 6600GT, which itself has 8 pixel pipes and a higher core clock than the 6800XT

Definitely the $199 X800XL is an unbeatable deal especially in Canada...so I would say snatch one up quick

 

[herewego2006]

Alright, so it looks like I'll be scooping that bad-boy up.

Just want to clarify a few things first. With regards to hooking up to the TV... is it plug and play? As in I connect the back of my video card to the back of my TV (any idea what slot?) and my cpu screen image just pops up on my tv? Or do I need to tweak my TV and computer to get it working (since I'm thinking of hooking it up to a 51 inch hitatchi HD screen). And will the quality be good?

And as for games, at what settings will I be running games like BF2, HL2, Far-Cry, Doom 3.

I know FEAR is incredibly hard to get working at a high setting but will it be playable in the low-mid settings?

Thanks for all the help

 

[996GT2]

http://twojepc.pl/html/cebit_2005/P3110761.jpg

This is a picture of the AIW X800XL. Notice now it's different from most video cards in that it has a TV tuner built in and connections to connect it to a TV's coaxical inputs. Cables should be included in the package. The TV tuner allows you can watch TV or record a show to your hard drive from an antenna or cable TV input.

As far as game performance goes, your card should be similar to a 6800GT or so. That means you can play HL2 with high/max settings at 1024 by 768 or even 1280* 1024 with no problems. Should be similar for other games also. However the most intensive games such as FEAR or Oblivion will suffer a bit on your card, but at 1024 * 768 and mid settings it should be OK.

 

[beggerking]

QFT on AIW.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: 996GT2
The 6800XT (Xtreme) is not a very good card, only 8 pixel pipelines and a rather low core clock speed. Compare this with the 12 pixel pipes of the 6800GS (and a high core clock) and the 16 pixel pipes of teh AIW X800XL with a moderate core clock, and it can't really compete. The performance of the 6800XT is closer to that of the 6600GT, which itself has 8 pixel pipes and a higher core clock than the 6800XT

Definitely the $199 X800XL is an unbeatable deal especially in Canada...so I would say snatch one up quick

Totally agree with you The AIW XL is definitely a better choice than that 6800XT.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

go for an ATI all in wonder AIW card =]
you can game on them and get tv tuner at the same time

 

[akshayt]

Whether or not your comp is outdated, the rig I suggested comes for the same price(more or less) as the graphic card upgrade you are looking, but it crushes it to its knees.

If you sell your cpu+mb+ram+ graphic card and put a few bucks more, you will get amd 64bit 3000 venice and newe mobo and all, if you overclock that cpu it will even beat a amd 64bit 4000 in gaming atleast, so your cpu becomes high end for gaming, ram:2gb = enough
1800XT 256mb=mid end cpu
or 512mb X1800XL after flashing or whatever to XT and overclocking will be able to reach the high end graphic level, thus you havea high end or mid end at the min gaming machine at roughly the same cost.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: akshayt
1800XT 256mb=mid end cpu or 512mb X1800XL after flashing or whatever to XT

Yeah, that's good advice, it makes a lot of sense to do that whatever thing to your new $200 video card.

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: akshayt
Whether or not your comp is outdated, the rig I suggested comes for the same price(more or less) as the graphic card upgrade you are looking, but it crushes it to its knees.

If you sell your cpu+mb+ram+ graphic card and put a few bucks more, you will get amd 64bit 3000 venice and newe mobo and all, if you overclock that cpu it will even beat a amd 64bit 4000 in gaming atleast, so your cpu becomes high end for gaming, ram:2gb = enough
1800XT 256mb=mid end cpu
or 512mb X1800XL after flashing or whatever to XT and overclocking will be able to reach the high end graphic level, thus you havea high end or mid end at the min gaming machine at roughly the same cost.

Why are you trying to give advice to others when you can't even get your own X1900XTX (THAT WE DON'T KNOW YOU HAVE) to work!!??!??!?!?!?

Also for the record the X1800XL DOES NOT NEED TO BE FLASHED. It has the same # of pixel pipes to begin with as the XT. However there is almost no way you can overclock the RAM to XT levels, as there is a huge difference.

Also the upgrade he's looking at is $200 Canadian, the rig you suggested with a 3000+ ($100+), new mobo ($100 for OCing), X1800XT ($250+), and 2 GB Ram ($150+) will run at
least 600-700 dollars, most likely more since he is in Canada. Assuming he can get $200 for his computer, there is still $500 left.

So don't try to be smart until you can solve your own problems


To the original poster, just go with the AIW like all of us have said. Akshayt is a forum troll. Just read this thread "X1900XTX is crap"
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=31&threadid=1878384&enterthread=y
read through the 18 pages of lies and utter crap that he posts. Then go to other forums like techenclave where he is "techboy" and does the exact same act of trolling.

 

[herewego2006]

Yeah, the whole "new" system idea kind of shocked me.

I'm only interested in PC gaming for the next year or so anyways. The TV tuner thing still confuses the ****** out of me, though. So with my PC hooked up to my HDTV, i can download stuff off the net and watch it on my TV? I frankly could care less about having my cable TV appear on my computer screen. What about playing games on the TV? I'm afraid the quality will be lacking.

Basically I'm looking at keeping my old 2001 monitor to type essays and play the occaisional game. And when I want to watch some downloaded episodes or DVD's, just transfer the signal to the big-screen. It just looks like a cheaper alternative than buying a big enough LCD that doubles as a monitor and tv.

 

[herewego2006]

bump

do all in wonders make you do multimedia ****** on your pc or on the tv you hook it up 2?

 

[akshayt]

just get a X1800XL 256mb and that is probably the best buy you can get for that price if you are able to that is.
try to upgrade to 2gb later.

If you want AGP, go for a 6800GS/GT or X800/X850 series but they don't have SM3.0 nor HDR

6xxx series has hdr and sm3.0 but not X8xx series.

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: akshayt
just get a X1800XL 256mb and that is probably the best buy you can get for that price if you are able to that is.
try to upgrade to 2gb later.

If you want AGP, go for a 6800GS/GT or X800/X850 series but they don't have SM3.0 nor HDR

6xxx series has hdr and sm3.0 but not X8xx series.

Have you seen how much a frickin X1800XL/XT costs in canada? Over $400 canadian, or over $700 canadian for the XT!!
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=17157&vpn=100-435705&manufacture=ATI

He SPECIFICALLY Said his budget is under $215 canadian or so...ARE YOU BLIND?

And getting that X1800 means a whole new motherboard and power supply among other things, adding greatly to the cost......

Also the 6800GS/GT Performs *at best* on the same level as a stock or OC'd X800XL, due to 4 less pixel pipes for the GS and slower clocks on the GT. Also have you taken a moment to look at prices in canada? X800XT AGP costs well over $300 canadian, X850 costs even more.....:roll:


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, now to the OP...AIW cards should work just like any normal card for games, as far as multimedia goes I'm not too sure, maybe you should google search it? for reviews of similar cards to see how they do it? As far as I know such cards let you watch/record TV on your computer and most any graphics card will yet you connect your computer to a TV thus displaying whats on the screen on the TV.

 

[akshayt]

in US a XT costs 220$ after rebate.
What is Canadian to USD conversion.
Even in India you get a 1800XT for 23k, maybe 256mb, that is around 500USD, but India is too expensive.
how can Canada be so expensive?

 

[996GT2]

Computer parts cost more in Canada than they do in the US, especially for high end parts like X1800XL/XTs...

Even if you could get one for about $220 in Canada, the OP would still have to change basically every other part of his system. He likely could not even re-use the DDR memory because nobody is going to want to buy a Dell with no memory in it....

The costs quickly add up to well over $600 for the upgrade (that's in the US), much more since he is in Canada

New CPU ($115 in Canada for even 3000+)
New mobo ($100 more more for a decent OCer)
New memory ($100 in Canada)
New Power Supply ($60 in Canada)
New Case ($50+ in Canada)

You see where this is going? Even if he can re-use his Dell RAM/Hard Drive/Optical/Floppy drives, the costs for doing what you suggest will cost, at the very, very least, $700-800 Canadian...his budget is around $215 Canadian. And re-using all these parts means little leeway for upgrades later as he is going to have to use the almost phased-out 939 socket...

So next time think before posting ok?

 

[LOUISSSSS]

akshit just go away. you're a moron. he said canadian, not freaking indian prices. hes not interested in buying a new computer, just a video card upgrade. OP you're pretty much limited to the 7800gs or x800, x850 although they are a bit overpriced. x1600 is a pretty good card for the money as is the 7600gs, but the x1600 series prived the usual better ati image quality when gaming

 

[herewego2006]

Alright so I guess the All-in-Wonder thing really isn't worth it lol.

Best card at around 200$ with a TV-out. What is it?