Help, I'm replacing my main 2004 PC build.

[T_Yamamoto]

get to work!

 

[mfenn]

get to work!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[dreydin]

Strange, the PC is only booting to BIOS when the motherboard is out of the computer case. When I put the motherboard into the case, it starts up the same (PSU fan, CPU fan, case fans, all powering up), but nothing is displaying on the monitor. Here are the steps I have taken so far...

1) Parts put together on the motherboard's box foam: mobo, CPU, CPU fan, ram, GPU, and PSU.
Start it up, all fans spinning, and it displays BIOS.

2) Parts put together in the Fractal R3 computer case: mobo, CPU, CPU fan, ram, GPU, and PSU (same parts as Step 1).
Start it up, all fans spinning, and it displays nothing.

3) Reference Check; Parts put together on the motherboard's box foam: mobo, CPU, CPU fan, ram, GPU, and PSU (same as Step 1).
Start it up, all fans spinning, and it displays BIOS.

4) Slight Variation; Parts put together in the Fractal R3 computer case: mobo, CPU, CPU fan, ram, NO GPU, and PSU.
Start it up, all fans spinning, and it displays nothing via the mobo's onboard video.

Any ideas?

I thought it may be a GPU short on the case, but the onboard doesn't respond either. I made sure the same mobo/CPU power cables were seated correctly in both locations (out of case, inside of case). I have confirmed the EVO HSF's exposed metal parts clear the mobo, so there are no shorts there.

The only thing that it seems I've narrowed it down to are the brass standoffs (risers). I've looked over the manual and it says nothing about which ones to use and which not to. I've inspected the front and back of the motherboard and there doesn't seem to be anything out of place on the standoff contact points. I've triple checked to make sure I don't have too many standoffs out at once. The screw rings on the motherboard are suspect, but I've verified on Newegg that the design is the same as mine: two 1/4 metal circles (picture below). These are on every main screw hole on the board, so there seems to be no standoff variations to experiment with (unlike the Extreme3 mobo [Not to be mistaken with my Pro3 mobo]: http://forums.tweaktown.com/asrock/47022-z68-extreme3-gen3-will-not-power.html and http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f15/boots-when-out-of-case-in-case-nothing-618758.html).

I haven't tried anything beyond this (yet). I'm done for the day though. I'll resume tomorrow (Starting by installing a system speaker). Thanks for any help or advice.

 

[dreydin]

A few thoughts...

Does anyone ever put felt or some other type of material to separate the brass standoff from the bottom of the motherboard? Would it be safe to do? This example is not exactly the same, but my current computer has these reddish brown paper rings that go in between the screw's cap (like a metal washer) and the top side of the motherboard.

Also, if my motherboard is shorting, what kind of damage is it taking? Should I just RMA the board now, hope that the replacement is damage free (If mine is even damaged?) and hope that a new board will fix the issue? I'd like to try some alternatives, but if I did RMA, that would take a lot of time. This is all just food for thought.

 

[tulx]

A few thoughts...

Does anyone ever put felt or some other type of material to separate the brass standoff from the bottom of the motherboard? Would it be safe to do? This example is not exactly the same, but my current computer has these reddish brown paper rings that go in between the screw's cap (like a metal washer) and the top side of the motherboard.

Also, if my motherboard is shorting, what kind of damage is it taking? Should I just RMA the board now, hope that the replacement is damage free (If mine is even damaged?) and hope that a new board will fix the issue? I'd like to try some alternatives, but if I did RMA, that would take a lot of time. This is all just food for thought.

I have heard people using synthetic insulation behind the motherboard to be "on the safe side", but that's all just more material for conserving hot air, as far as I'm concearned. I always use the standoffs and ever had any problem. Just check that you use all standoffs which the motherboard support and not one more or less. Also check if you don't leave any screws or other small parts behind the motherboard.

 

[dreydin]

Odd, I removed a single brass standoff (went from 7 to 6) and put in 2 screws on opposite corners of the motherboard. Went to boot it up (inside of the PC case) and it worked. Then, I kept adding a single screw/booting/repeating until I had the whole motherboard secured with BIOS showing. I just added the GPU now and it is still working. The mobo has no differentiation between the holes for the standoffs and the manual says nothing about them. I'm not complaining, but it's a little weird!!

Ahh well, back to hooking everything up and managing the cables

 

[j03h4gLund]

hehheh i've got a similar setup that i just purchased. i lollerraped myself when i got it outta the most epic box ever? lolz mine was identical and im saving it as you most likely are lol. was wondering if you are overclocking? And did you update your mobo bios or not? I've left everything on my rig stock except boot speed stuff. Here are my specs:

CPU: i5 2500k(stock)
HSF: (Stock)
Mobo: ASRock Z68 PRO3 GEN3
RAM: Patriot Sig 2x4 DDR3 1600(stock)
PSU: Antec 650w Earthwatts
GPU: 1gb ECA GTX 460(stock)
Storage: Patriot Torqx 2

dreydin: I'll be playing TFC, Minecraft, and Diablo 3. I'm not a heavy gamer, so there's not really anything else on the horizon that I am interested in playing. Also, what is the difference between a 6950 and a 560Ti? Are there any great deals going on right now? I need to find some benchmark reviews.

Haha, tfc was epic. You should check out ff (www.fortress-forever.com) if you have hl2, you can play this for free. If you dont have hl2, pm me and I'll steam gift you a copy anyway, the reviews on this site are the best imo, but you can find more on tomshardware.com

mfenn: You definitely can increase the Vcore on the Pro3 Gen3. Check out page 44 of the manual for all of the voltage control options.

mfenn, any suggestions as to a good HSF for this build with air cooling(5x 80mm fans). I like all of my Rosewill stuff but is there something that will proove much better, and will the rosewill thermal paste I bought 6 months ago(sealed and kept in a good environment) be okay to use while going for a 4.6Ghz-ish overclock? And would my PSU be able to handle 2 Gtx 460's in SLI?

 

[mfenn]

Odd, I removed a single brass standoff (went from 7 to 6) and put in 2 screws on opposite corners of the motherboard. Went to boot it up (inside of the PC case) and it worked. Then, I kept adding a single screw/booting/repeating until I had the whole motherboard secured with BIOS showing. I just added the GPU now and it is still working. The mobo has no differentiation between the holes for the standoffs and the manual says nothing about them. I'm not complaining, but it's a little weird!!

Ahh well, back to hooking everything up and managing the cables

There are 9 total mounting points for an ATX board (page 10). Which ones were giving you trouble?

 

[mfenn]

mfenn, any suggestions as to a good HSF for this build with air cooling(5x 80mm fans). I like all of my Rosewill stuff but is there something that will proove much better, and will the rosewill thermal paste I bought 6 months ago(sealed and kept in a good environment) be okay to use while going for a 4.6Ghz-ish overclock? And would my PSU be able to handle 2 Gtx 460's in SLI?

FIVE 80mm fans? Your case must sound like a jet engine! Which case is it by the way, most all new cases use 120mm and 140mm fans. Standard recommendations like the Hyper 212+ are fine for a ~4.5Ghz OC.

Yes, you PSU should handle GTX 460 SLI, but the GTX 460 is a fairly weak card at this point, so don't buy another one unless you get it for very cheap.

 

[dreydin]

hehheh i've got a similar setup that i just purchased. i lollerraped myself when i got it outta the most epic box ever? lolz mine was identical and im saving it as you most likely are lol. was wondering if you are overclocking? And did you update your mobo bios or not? I've left everything on my rig stock except boot speed stuff. Here are my specs:

CPU: i5 2500k(stock)
HSF: (Stock)
Mobo: ASRock Z68 PRO3 GEN3
RAM: Patriot Sig 2x4 DDR3 1600(stock)
PSU: Antec 650w Earthwatts
GPU: 1gb ECA GTX 460(stock)
Storage: Patriot Torqx 2



Haha, tfc was epic. You should check out ff (www.fortress-forever.com) if you have hl2, you can play this for free. If you dont have hl2, pm me and I'll steam gift you a copy anyway, the reviews on this site are the best imo, but you can find more on tomshardware.com



mfenn, any suggestions as to a good HSF for this build with air cooling(5x 80mm fans). I like all of my Rosewill stuff but is there something that will proove much better, and will the rosewill thermal paste I bought 6 months ago(sealed and kept in a good environment) be okay to use while going for a 4.6Ghz-ish overclock? And would my PSU be able to handle 2 Gtx 460's in SLI?

What an awesome build!

I plan to OC the CPU to hopefully 4.4 without having to raise anything too much. For my HSF, I am using a CM 212 EVO and it seems (no reference) pretty nice. The fan is a wee bit loud for my tastes, but I won't really confirm this until I have the PC case closed off and running in the normal environment. I have a few fans (NF-S12B and D12SL-12) that I could swap in anyways, so I'm not too worried. I have not updated anything yet though. I have been taking my sweet time getting everything connected perfectly inside of the case so the cables are barely seen. I'm currently in the process of saving a few files and bookmarks in the OS SSD drive and then it'll be time to strip down the 8 year old beast.

FF?? I have heard people mentioning it while playing TFC, but I didn't put 1 and 1 together to think that the game was actually still alive. So, I have to ask, is FF really still alive?? I played it at release and it was a blast (the spy reminds me of a DAoC infiltrator)! But for some reason or another, I stopped playing or something happened.. Oh, that's right, there was some update and it became really difficult to load, connect, and play the game. It was something along those lines. I will most definitely play it again if what you say is true though!

There are 9 total mounting points for an ATX board (page 10). Which ones were giving you trouble?

According to the chart on pg12, it is the top one in between the PCI slots and the AGP slot (letter B on pg10). It was slightly redundant, so I figured why not? Lucky guess, huh?

Hey, mfenn, what do you think about fan controllers? I'm not exactly looking for bling, but since my R3 case has a door that closes, I don't want a monitor that has knobs (forces me to recess the bay, which I don't want). I actually like the knobs because it reminds me of vintage audio gear, but I have my eyes on something like this right now > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811992005. The R3 does include a decent fan controller (image below), but the problem is the knob to adjust the speed is in the very back of the case by the PCI slots. This may even work if I don't have to adjust the speeds very often, but for the the time being I am seeing what my options are.

 

[mfenn]

According to the chart on pg12, it is the top one in between the PCI slots and the AGP slot (letter B on pg10). It was slightly redundant, so I figured why not? Lucky guess, huh?

Well, there's your problem! B is for MicroATX, not ATX. Note the table at the bottom of page 10.

Hey, mfenn, what do you think about fan controllers? I'm not exactly looking for bling, but since my R3 case has a door that closes, I don't want a monitor that has knobs (forces me to recess the bay, which I don't want). I actually like the knobs because it reminds me of vintage audio gear, but I have my eyes on something like this right now > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811992005. The R3 does include a decent fan controller (image below), but the problem is the knob to adjust the speed is in the very back of the case by the PCI slots. This may even work if I don't have to adjust the speeds very often, but for the the time being I am seeing what my options are.

Personally, I can't stand manual fan controllers, I'd rather hook all the fans that I can up to the mobo and let it control things automatically and 7V mod the rest. With a manual fan controller, you will honestly just find a position that you like and leave it alone. I have seen plenty of people with fancy knobs and buttons that they play with for a week or so and then never touch again.

 

[dreydin]

Well, there's your problem! B is for MicroATX, not ATX. Note the table at the bottom of page 10.



Personally, I can't stand manual fan controllers, I'd rather hook all the fans that I can up to the mobo and let it control things automatically and 7V mod the rest. With a manual fan controller, you will honestly just find a position that you like and leave it alone. I have seen plenty of people with fancy knobs and buttons that they play with for a week or so and then never touch again.

Haha! I was not originally able to find this document you have linked me to. You're absolutely right though, that is not an ATX location. This makes me feel a lot better considering how random the whole encounter seemed at first.

Understood, but how is it controlled automatically if they are not PWM fans? Take for example my 2 R3 intakes and the Noctua rear exhaust. They are only 3 pins. How will they be automatically controlled?

 

[mfenn]

PWM is only one, fairly new, method of controlling the fan speed. The standard way to control the fans is to adjust their input voltage, which is what the mobo does for non-PWM fans and what 95% of discrete fan controllers do as well.

 

[dreydin]

So, I had all the components in place, everything hooked up, cables tied back, and finally went to start the PC... nothing. Nothing! I was about to give up for the day when my brother suggested re-seating the RAM. I didn't listen to him and instead pulled everything out to the original point where it had successfully booted last. Went to start... nothing! So I remembered my brother mentioning the RAM again. I did check to make sure they were seated, but I didn't actually RE-seat the RAM. So I tried this and went to boot... Bingo! It worked!? So I reconnected a single component at a time, booted, and each time it booted into BIOS.

Long story short; the new rig is humming

And I took your advice (when haven't I? ), mfenn. I removed the stock R3 fan controller and hooked all the fans to the motherboard. I have adjusted all the speeds in BIOS and will do so further in Windows, if needed.

One loose end though. I have an old Razer Barracuda AC-1 sound card and I am not sure how to hook it up (other than connecting it to the mother board via PCI). Here is a picture of the available connections on the inside of the card. Are these necessary or relevant? I have a cable that connects in the CD-IN/AUX-IN slot of the card, but I can't find anything to connect it to on the other end (mother board or ROM). If I'm not mistaken, my old PC had a connection from the CD-IN or AUX-IN of the sound card to the back of the CD-ROM's "Analogue Audio" slot, which is not present on my new DVD drive.

 

[j03h4gLund]

Ill def check out that fan you mentioned mfenn, and yes FF is still alive but the community is small.

Come play 4v4 pickup games in IRC. (www.mirc.com)
/server irc.quakenet.org
/join #ff.pickup

 

[dreydin]

Oh man, that case is crazy! It must be a little older though because of the 80mm fans? And how are you supposed to cable manage? lol

The EVO HSF, btw, like I had mentioned, is a little loud (loudest fan in my PC) when you are near the open case. But with the door closed, I can't even tell my computer is on. I booted it up just now and had to do a double take to make sure it was on. Not really sure how effective it is in OCing applications, but I'm sure it is good enough. I'll update this thread or another 2500k thread with my OCing details next weekend.

I was actually playing FF last night. I prefer pubbing (I'm a fragger/mulcher), but I can see why IRC pickups would be better. The community is very small. Smaller than the current TFC community, even. I tried to jump on again late last night after finishing my Chem homework and saw that the only activity was coming from 2 locked servers. Looks like I need to dust off mIRC.

 

[dreydin]

Btw, what is your alias?

And since when did mIRC cost money??

 

[mfenn]

So, I had all the components in place, everything hooked up, cables tied back, and finally went to start the PC... nothing. Nothing! I was about to give up for the day when my brother suggested re-seating the RAM. I didn't listen to him and instead pulled everything out to the original point where it had successfully booted last. Went to start... nothing! So I remembered my brother mentioning the RAM again. I did check to make sure they were seated, but I didn't actually RE-seat the RAM. So I tried this and went to boot... Bingo! It worked!? So I reconnected a single component at a time, booted, and each time it booted into BIOS.

Long story short; the new rig is humming

And I took your advice (when haven't I? ), mfenn. I removed the stock R3 fan controller and hooked all the fans to the motherboard. I have adjusted all the speeds in BIOS and will do so further in Windows, if needed.

One loose end though. I have an old Razer Barracuda AC-1 sound card and I am not sure how to hook it up (other than connecting it to the mother board via PCI). Here is a picture of the available connections on the inside of the card. Are these necessary or relevant? I have a cable that connects in the CD-IN/AUX-IN slot of the card, but I can't find anything to connect it to on the other end (mother board or ROM). If I'm not mistaken, my old PC had a connection from the CD-IN or AUX-IN of the sound card to the back of the CD-ROM's "Analogue Audio" slot, which is not present on my new DVD drive.

Looks very clean :thumbsup:

The short answer to your sound card question is that you don't need to do anything other than plug it into the PCI slot. The longer answer is that the port labeled "front panel" is for an option breakout box that goes into a 5.25" bay. If you don't have that box (or don't want to use it), don't worry about it. The other two 4 pin connectors are indeed for analog audio, which would only matter if you have a really OLD CD-ROM drive and want to use it as a sort of standalone CD player instead of using a software application to play the music digitally via the data connection.

 

[j03h4gLund]

ya mirc costs like $5 or something, its been a while - just use icechat if you dont wanna pay

my alias is chef- - ill pm u my steam name. pw's to the servers are pickup.

hit me up!

 

[dreydin]

Looks very clean :thumbsup:

The short answer to your sound card question is that you don't need to do anything other than plug it into the PCI slot. The longer answer is that the port labeled "front panel" is for an option breakout box that goes into a 5.25" bay. If you don't have that box (or don't want to use it), don't worry about it. The other two 4 pin connectors are indeed for analog audio, which would only matter if you have a really OLD CD-ROM drive and want to use it as a sort of standalone CD player instead of using a software application to play the music digitally via the data connection.

Many thanks to you, good sir!

ya mirc costs like $5 or something, its been a while - just use icechat if you dont wanna pay

my alias is chef- - ill pm u my steam name. pw's to the servers are pickup.

hit me up!

I'll do that!