Help Identifying some "Nuclear Reactor Momentos"

[BrownTown]

just FWIW in terms of toxicity lead is pretty similar to depleted uranium in terms of its health hazards, so getting a lead box is just as likely to make you worse off than better, especially since it really serves no purpose as the DU is not shooting off any appreciable number of gamma rays (you will get irradiated just as much walking out on a sunny day). I have handled DU with my bare hand before and am fine, TBH I would be much less likely to touch lead than uranium, I KNOW lead is very toxic chemically if it gets into your body, I am not sure about uranium (know plutonium is really bad though).

 

[Retro2001]

Originally posted by: BrownTown
just FWIW in terms of toxicity lead is pretty similar to depleted uranium in terms of its health hazards, so getting a lead box is just as likely to make you worse off than better, especially since it really serves no purpose as the DU is not shooting off any appreciable number of gamma rays (you will get irradiated just as much walking out on a sunny day). I have handled DU with my bare hand before and am fine, TBH I would be much less likely to touch lead than uranium, I KNOW lead is very toxic chemically if it gets into your body, I am not sure about uranium (know plutonium is really bad though).

Alpha emitters (Like DU) can be nasty if eat/drink/inhale them. It's not really toxicity, but lodging particles of Alpha emitting DU up against cell membranes in (for example) your lungs can be bad in the long run.
You can find more reference to this by looking for information about studies of the long term health effects on people in areas where DU bullets have been used.

-Will

 

[BrownTown]

yes, but I made the point to talk about chemical toxicity and not radioactivity which has already been mentioned a dozen times. Lead is chemically toxic as are most every heavy metal, since uranium is also a heavy metal I was wondering how its chemical toxicity compared to others like lead. Inhaling vaporized DU is the only real proven way I know that it will hurt you, but at the same time inhaling lead vapor from lead bullets ain't exactly great either. Also, many of those studies are dubious at best and come from groups who already have a stated position against anything nuclear, so you have to take them with a grain of salt. Other studies from the government (which are just as likely to be biased) show no link between the use of DU and later disease.

Hey IronWing, I got you some vials of UF6 right here.

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Paging Ned, Paging NuclearNed...
White courtesy telephone, please.

I just now saw the NedSignal in the sky... sorry I'm late.

How may I be of assistance?

(Keep in mind that I'm just a software guy at a nuclear facility and don't have any particularly special knowledge about radioactive materials...)

Just some general info, though...

There are plenty of radioactive materials throughout your homes in ordinary things. For example, plant foods (fertilizers), bananas, and some paints have radioactive material in them. In other words, radioactive materials are all around us, and aren't particularly harmful. As others have said, it also depends on the type(s) of radioactivity that is being emitted from the mystery objects. Some emissions can't get past the layer of dead skin cells you carry around. Some need several inches/feet of concrete to be stopped.

I sure as heck would get the "momentos" scanned and checked out by an expert. It's always better to safe than sorry (i.e. cancer sucks).

 

[herm0016]

what the heck is that place?

 

[IGBT]

..wouldn't hurt to have that stuff checked for leakage. amazing collection.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: herm0016
what the heck is that place?

Which place? Hanford? Hell on earth, with fishing.

For a pretty good layperson's overview of the US nuclear complex I recommend this here book:

Closing the Circle on the Splitting of the Atom
The Environmental Legacy of Nuclear Weapons Production in the United States and
What the Department of Energy is Doing About It

The whole book is available in pdf here:
http://ndep.nv.gov/lts/close/circle.htm

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: herm0016
what the heck is that place?

If your talking about my link then that is USEC's Paducah KY enrichment facility. Currently the only location enriching uranium for commercial nuclear reactors in the USA, it uses gaseous diffusion (hence the UF6) comment. All the barrels you see there are depleted uranium from previous enrichment of nuclear reactor fuel. There are 14 tons of DU stored as UF6 per barrel.

 

[AmphibSailor]

It wasn't the U238 that would concern me. It'd be whatever shorter-lived isotopes that had tagged along.

Such as ??? (what isotopes would tag along?)

Anyhow, U238 emits alpha particles like you said, so it would not be much of a concern since it looks like it is encased in something at least as thick as paper....

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: AmphibSailor

It wasn't the U238 that would concern me. It'd be whatever shorter-lived isotopes that had tagged along.

Such as ??? (what isotopes would tag along?)

From my post above:

http://www.wise-uranium.org/img/actdu.gif

 

[AMCRambler]

That first item, the tiny cylinder certainly looks like a fuel pellet to me. One of my scout masters worked in a nuclear plant and he got us all souvenir fake fuel pellets that looked just like that. They were probably steel painted black but it was still cool. That one in the acryllic certainly looks real. I can't tell what the thing below it is though. Someone said part of a fuel rod, but it looks too small to me. The scale replica of the fuel pellet we had was like maybe a half inch across and and an inch long. So comparing the two, that would be a pretty small fuel rod. Of course I don't know the dimensions of a fuel rod, I just always thought they were fairly big.

Edit: Nevermind, Wikipedia to the rescue again. Pic of fuel rod and pellets. Pretty interesting stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...lear_fuel_pellets.jpeg

 

[Injury]

DHS is likely monitoring this thread.

 

[AmphibSailor]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: AmphibSailor

It wasn't the U238 that would concern me. It'd be whatever shorter-lived isotopes that had tagged along.

Such as ??? (what isotopes would tag along?)

From my post above:

http://www.wise-uranium.org/img/actdu.gif

The percentage of other isotopes in depleted uranium is such a small percentage....So why the worry. During the process which results in its creation, most of the isotopes are removed. I still wouldn't worry about it. All uranium isotopes are primarily alpha emitters, anyway.

 

[potato28]

Uh, definitely get those samples checked out. If you can't get them checked for a few days, keep them outside in a small wood box in a corner of your backyard. I know my dad has a sample of uranium that is always kept outside, as it reduces the exposure and is less risky than having a lead box.

 

[Sukhoi]

Originally posted by: Injury
DHS is likely monitoring this thread.

Yeah the number of keywords triggering alarms in their computers has to be outrageous.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: AmphibSailor

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: AmphibSailor

It wasn't the U238 that would concern me. It'd be whatever shorter-lived isotopes that had tagged along.

Such as ??? (what isotopes would tag along?)

From my post above:

http://www.wise-uranium.org/img/actdu.gif

The percentage of other isotopes in depleted uranium is such a small percentage....So why the worry. During the process which results in its creation, most of the isotopes are removed. I still wouldn't worry about it. All uranium isotopes are primarily alpha emitters, anyway.

I think you're missing the point of the chart. The chart shows the activities of the decay products of depleted uranium that develop from pure depleted uranium (U-238 plus U-234). Note the log time scale. Within the first year the activity of the daughters exceeds that of the uranium itself. Things level out after that, only very slowly climbing to peak activity after a couple million years then dropping off sometime after the universe ends.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: Sukhoi

Originally posted by: Injury
DHS is likely monitoring this thread.

Yeah the number of keywords triggering alarms in their computers has to be outrageous.

No kidding. I think that it couldn't be worse if someone mentioned Hugo Chavez, Carlos the Jackal, Al Queda, Nigerian delta insurgents, aluminum tubes, centrifuges, calutrons, and Pat Nixon all in one post.

 

[AmphibSailor]

I think you're missing the point of the chart. The chart shows the activities of the decay products of depleted uranium that develop from pure depleted uranium (U-238 plus U-234). Note the log time scale. Within the first year the activity of the daughters exceeds that of the uranium itself. Things level out after that, only very slowly climbing to peak activity after a couple million years then dropping off sometime after the universe ends.

I think you're reading too much into the chart and overstating its importance. Read the links below gleaned from hyper links off the the site where you took the chart.


N R C decides that DU is a low level waste.

Texas Department of Health approved the disposal of DU counterweights at a land burial facility not even licensed for disposal of radioactive waste.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: AmphibSailor

N R C decides that DU is a low level waste.

Texas Department of Health approved the disposal of DU counterweights at a land burial facility not even licensed for disposal of radioactive waste.

Nuclear wastes are split into two categories, high level waste and low level wastes. High level wastes include spent fuel and reprocessing wastes. That's it.
http://www.nrc.gov/waste/high-level-waste.html

All other nuclear waste is low level waste, no matter how radioactive it might be.


The landfill you refer to is a low level radioactive waste landfill and is permitted.
http://www.wcstexas.com/
http://www.wcstexas.com/cap_licenses_permits.html

 

[AmphibSailor]

Nuclear wastes are split into two categories, high level waste and low level wastes. High level wastes include spent fuel and reprocessing wastes. That's it.
http://www.nrc.gov/waste/high-level-waste.html

All other nuclear waste is low level waste, no matter how radioactive it might be.

Not quite true.

...low-level radioactive waste is defined as any radioactive waste that does not belong in one of the other three categories. Those three categories are
(1) high-level waste (spent nuclear fuel or the highly radioactive waste produced if spent fuel is reprocessed),
(2) uranium milling residues, and
(3) waste with greater than specified quantities of elements heavier than uranium.

Spent nuclear fuel is used fuel from nuclear power plants. Spent fuel contains some reusable material that may be recovered. That recovery process is called reprocessing, and everything left over after the reusable material has been recovered is classified as high-level radioactive waste. The United States is not presently reprocessing spent nuclear fuel.

Uranium milling residues are the rock and soil that remain after uranium has been removed from the ore that was mined from the earth. These milling residues are also known as mill tailings.

Radioactive waste that contains more than a specified concentration of elements heavier than uranium, known as transuranics, is not classified as low-level radioactive waste.

All other radioactive waste is low-level radioactive waste.

The landfill you refer to is a low level radioactive waste landfill and is permitted.

Why are you really worried? I think that Retro2001 is safe and does not have to worry about radiation from isotopes of U238.

The article that was mentioned in your link that I referred to was from several years ago...The facility was allowed to accept it prior to the date the license amendment was effective. (The license amendment was dated 2006. The Texas Dept of Health approved the disposal of the DU counterweights in 2001.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
There are an amazing amount of hot radioactive items out there in the marketplace from this period in time. They made watches, clocks and grandfather clock faces, dice, chess and checkerboards, jewelry, just an amazing amount of items using radioactive paint that glows in the dark. These items are HOT radioactively speaking, and can be found in thrift shops, garage sales, literally all over the place. The only safe way to store these items is in a lead box. And they should almost never be taken out. Now, it is possible what you have are dummy items, with no radioactivity at all. But you can only know this with a gieger counter check.

talking of glow in the dark? That's tritium, and it's far from dangerous.
unless we're thinking of something else. Tritium maintains luminescence, does not need the sun to 'recharge', and thus they also glow in the daytime, although very faintly. and you'd have to eat it to be in danger.

Prior to tritium, radium was used. Interestingly, it's not the radium or tritium itself that glows, but rather (in the case of radium) zinc sulfide, which the beta particles from the radium would cause to fluoresce. Radium has a half-life of over 1,600 years, though typically the zinc sulfide crystals will break down due to the radium's emission of alpha particles in 25-50 years, so even though the illumination may be gone, radium paint will still be "hot" for a long time forward.

Tritium has a half-life of only about 12 years, so a watch with tritium hands will cease to self-illuminate fairly quickly compared to radium.

As far as the practical risks of radium, it's not terribly dangerous and isn't something that would worry me. In all honesty, some of my older camera lenses are probably just as "hot" as a radium watch dial.

ZV

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
There are an amazing amount of hot radioactive items out there in the marketplace from this period in time. They made watches, clocks and grandfather clock faces, dice, chess and checkerboards, jewelry, just an amazing amount of items using radioactive paint that glows in the dark. These items are HOT radioactively speaking, and can be found in thrift shops, garage sales, literally all over the place. The only safe way to store these items is in a lead box. And they should almost never be taken out. Now, it is possible what you have are dummy items, with no radioactivity at all. But you can only know this with a gieger counter check.

talking of glow in the dark? That's tritium, and it's far from dangerous.
unless we're thinking of something else. Tritium maintains luminescence, does not need the sun to 'recharge', and thus they also glow in the daytime, although very faintly. and you'd have to eat it to be in danger.

Prior to tritium, radium was used. Interestingly, it's not the radium or tritium itself that glows, but rather (in the case of radium) zinc sulfide, which the beta particles from the radium would cause to fluoresce. Radium has a half-life of over 1,600 years, though typically the zinc sulfide crystals will break down due to the radium's emission of alpha particles in 25-50 years, so even though the illumination may be gone, radium paint will still be "hot" for a long time forward.

Tritium has a half-life of only about 12 years, so a watch with tritium hands will cease to self-illuminate fairly quickly compared to radium.

As far as the practical risks of radium, it's not terribly dangerous and isn't something that would worry me. In all honesty, some of my older camera lenses are probably just as "hot" as a radium watch dial.

ZV

Are you lenses made of uranium??

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
As far as the practical risks of radium, it's not terribly dangerous and isn't something that would worry me. In all honesty, some of my older camera lenses are probably just as "hot" as a radium watch dial.

ZV

Are you lenses made of uranium??

Many old M42 mount lenses used radioactive glass. Specifically, they used thorium to lower the refractive index of the glass. It can fog photographic film in the same way that radium does and is roughly on the same order of activity. Hasn't been used widely since the 1970's though.

ZV

 

[Sukhoi]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: Sukhoi

Originally posted by: Injury
DHS is likely monitoring this thread.

Yeah the number of keywords triggering alarms in their computers has to be outrageous.

No kidding. I think that it couldn't be worse if someone mentioned Hugo Chavez, Carlos the Jackal, Al Queda, Nigerian delta insurgents, aluminum tubes, centrifuges, calutrons, and Pat Nixon all in one post.

:laugh: