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Help diagnosing a problem with my old truck

Homerboy

Homerboy

Lifer
I have an old 1965 Ford F250 Pick Up that I putter around in during the summer months.
It seems to have puttered out on me though.

It will turn over and give the initial "rush" as I turn the key and step on the gas, but then it dies out. Initially I thought it was a fuel pump, but this morning I took the carb top off and the reservoir is full of gas, so its definitely pumping gas up to the carb itself.

Everything sounds normal when I try to turn it over, it just wont keep running. It doesn't pputter our or anything it just does that initial "vroom" then stops.

Suggestions?

FYI, this is an old 352 engine, 2 barrel carb, everything original to 1965. So its about as simple as engines come.
 
unfamiliar with that....

Edit: Wait I thought about it for a min... is that the float inside the carb itself?
 
You need full battery voltage for a hotter spark when cranking. Once the cranking stops, the ballast resistor drops the voltage so the points will last longer.

Trace the wires coming from the coil. One should go to the distributor and from the other terminal, there will be several wires. One is coming from the ignition switch and the other from the ballast resistor. You can jump across the two terminals on the ballast resistor and you will then have full battery voltage when running. This would be a quick test. You could drive it that way, but the points will not last long.

The ballast resistors usually look like a rectangle of a ceramic type material. Typically tan in color. It will be mounted on the firewall usually. It should be easy to trace the wiring on a vehicle that old.

 
Originally posted by: LTC8K6
IIRC, it's a resistor wire and not a ceramic resistor.

Standard RW-34 according to Rock Auto.
Click to expand...
There you go. I was working from ancient memories, but the research showed the way. I think GM used ceramic resistors? Old memories.

I was thinking too that it could be the ignition switch (no current provided in the run position), could be high resistance on the points themselves (usually starts running bad for awhile first, although in the past I had a set go bad in the snap of a finger.) Could be the coil too.

I don't want to overwhelm the OP though.
 
Yeah, had a Dodge Monaco 360 with the ballast resistor brick on the firewall.

When it went bad, it would only run for about half a second. 😀
 
Ballast resistor goes in series with the ignition coil +12VDC power wire. On start up, the resistor is bypassed and full +12V is feed to the coil. After the key is back in the RUN position, the coil will get about 10VDC or so. This was done to minimize wear on the distributor ignition points, which your truck has. Easy way to tell if this is the issue, is with a Voltmeter, connect mete Neg to chassis ground. Then with the Ignition switch at RUN measure the Volts DC at the Ignition Coil + terminal. If you don't get a reading, then ballast resistor is OPEN and needs to be replaced. If you do get voltage there, check the points and the condenser in the distributor.

Edit: Boomerang pretty much explained it in the same way.
 
grrr

These are the "directions" I got from a member on another board:

With the key on you should have 9+volts across the coil.
From ground to neg coil should read near zero.
if not the points are shot.
From ground to coil + should read 9+ volts.
If not the pink resistor wire has a problem.
I like to see around 10 - 11 volts on electronic ignition.

I sadly dont have a volt meter, so I borrowed my neighbors:
http://us.fluke.com/usen/Produ...name=FlukeUnitedStates

I can't get the thing to show me anything but ohms though. I go across the coil and it shows me 1.8 ohms or so... great. I need to know volts.
I HATE electrical more than ANYTHING
 
Originally posted by: Homerboy
grrr

These are the "directions" I got from a member on another board:

With the key on you should have 9+volts across the coil.
From ground to neg coil should read near zero.
if not the points are shot.
From ground to coil + should read 9+ volts.
If not the pink resistor wire has a problem.
I like to see around 10 - 11 volts on electronic ignition.

I sadly dont have a volt meter, so I borrowed my neighbors:
http://us.fluke.com/usen/Produ...name=FlukeUnitedStates

I can't get the thing to show me anything but ohms though. I go across the coil and it shows me 1.8 ohms or so... great. I need to know volts.
I HATE electrical more than ANYTHING
Click to expand...
Auto Selection simplifies voltage measurements in power environments. When measuring ohms/continuity with more than 4.5 volts present across the input jacks (intentional or not) the meter automatically switches to measuring ac or dc volts, whichever is greater. Input impedance is approximately 2kOhms, helping determine if voltage is from leakage (so-called "ghost" voltages) or a hard connection. Overload protection is provided in all measurement modes.
Click to expand...

 
Originally posted by: Iron Woode
Originally posted by: Homerboy
grrr

These are the "directions" I got from a member on another board:

With the key on you should have 9+volts across the coil.
From ground to neg coil should read near zero.
if not the points are shot.
From ground to coil + should read 9+ volts.
If not the pink resistor wire has a problem.
I like to see around 10 - 11 volts on electronic ignition.

I sadly dont have a volt meter, so I borrowed my neighbors:
http://us.fluke.com/usen/Produ...name=FlukeUnitedStates

I can't get the thing to show me anything but ohms though. I go across the coil and it shows me 1.8 ohms or so... great. I need to know volts.
I HATE electrical more than ANYTHING
Click to expand...
Auto Selection simplifies voltage measurements in power environments. When measuring ohms/continuity with more than 4.5 volts present across the input jacks (intentional or not) the meter automatically switches to measuring ac or dc volts, whichever is greater. Input impedance is approximately 2kOhms, helping determine if voltage is from leakage (so-called "ghost" voltages) or a hard connection. Overload protection is provided in all measurement modes.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Its not switching to anything but ohms on the truck.
If I use a simply D cell battery it picks up the 1.5 volts fine.

 
Originally posted by: Homerboy
Originally posted by: Iron Woode
Originally posted by: Homerboy
grrr

These are the "directions" I got from a member on another board:

With the key on you should have 9+volts across the coil.
From ground to neg coil should read near zero.
if not the points are shot.
From ground to coil + should read 9+ volts.
If not the pink resistor wire has a problem.
I like to see around 10 - 11 volts on electronic ignition.

I sadly dont have a volt meter, so I borrowed my neighbors:
http://us.fluke.com/usen/Produ...name=FlukeUnitedStates

I can't get the thing to show me anything but ohms though. I go across the coil and it shows me 1.8 ohms or so... great. I need to know volts.
I HATE electrical more than ANYTHING
Click to expand...
Auto Selection simplifies voltage measurements in power environments. When measuring ohms/continuity with more than 4.5 volts present across the input jacks (intentional or not) the meter automatically switches to measuring ac or dc volts, whichever is greater. Input impedance is approximately 2kOhms, helping determine if voltage is from leakage (so-called "ghost" voltages) or a hard connection. Overload protection is provided in all measurement modes.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Its not switching to anything but ohms on the truck.
If I use a simply D cell battery it picks up the 1.5 volts fine.
Click to expand...
The key is on, right?
 
Where are you measuring on the truck ? ? If it is at the + side of the Ignition coil, and you get 0 VDC, then you have either
1): Open Ballast Resistor
2): Ignition Points are Closed ... the coil generates the spark voltage when the points OPEN
3): As mentioned above, maybe the Ignition switch is not sending +12VDC to the coil circuit when in the RUN position
 
Originally posted by: bruceb
Where are you measuring on the truck ? ? If it is at the + side of the Ignition coil, and you get 0 VDC, then you have either
1): Open Ballast Resistor
2): Ignition Points are Closed ... the coil generates the spark voltage when the points OPEN
3): As mentioned above, maybe the Ignition switch is not sending +12VDC to the coil circuit when in the RUN position
Click to expand...

I'm measured across the coil + to - with the key on "run" and get just ohms (so 0 volts).
I measured coil - to ground (chassis) and got zero while on "run"
I measure coil + to ground (chassis) and got zero while on "run"

Edit: how do I make sure the points are OPEN?
 
Originally posted by: Homerboy
Originally posted by: bruceb
Where are you measuring on the truck ? ? If it is at the + side of the Ignition coil, and you get 0 VDC, then you have either
1): Open Ballast Resistor
2): Ignition Points are Closed ... the coil generates the spark voltage when the points OPEN
3): As mentioned above, maybe the Ignition switch is not sending +12VDC to the coil circuit when in the RUN position
Click to expand...

I'm measured across the coil + to - with the key on "run" and get just ohms (so 0 volts).
I measured coil - to ground (chassis) and got zero while on "run"
I measure coil + to ground (chassis) and got zero while on "run"

Edit: how do I make sure the points are OPEN?
Click to expand...
To be certain, you'll have to remove the distributor cap and bump the motor over until you see that the points are open.

I'd like to make a suggestion. I see this frequently. I'm not saying whose troubleshooting procedure is right or wrong. (To be honest, it's been so long since I've dealt with a car with point ignition that I'd have to really think through the troubleshooting procedure you got elsewhere)

My advice would be to pick one site or another and stick with it. You'll get opinions all over the map from just one site. When you combine opinions from another, it turns into a convoluted mess.

You're showing signs of extreme confusion already. It's because of too much input with no consistency.

IMO


 
Originally posted by: boomerang
Originally posted by: Homerboy
Originally posted by: bruceb
Where are you measuring on the truck ? ? If it is at the + side of the Ignition coil, and you get 0 VDC, then you have either
1): Open Ballast Resistor
2): Ignition Points are Closed ... the coil generates the spark voltage when the points OPEN
3): As mentioned above, maybe the Ignition switch is not sending +12VDC to the coil circuit when in the RUN position
Click to expand...

I'm measured across the coil + to - with the key on "run" and get just ohms (so 0 volts).
I measured coil - to ground (chassis) and got zero while on "run"
I measure coil + to ground (chassis) and got zero while on "run"

Edit: how do I make sure the points are OPEN?
Click to expand...
To be certain, you'll have to remove the distributor cap and bump the motor over until you see that the points are open.

I'd like to make a suggestion. I see this frequently. I'm not saying whose troubleshooting procedure is right or wrong. (To be honest, it's been so long since I've dealt with a car with point ignition that I'd have to really think through the troubleshooting procedure you got elsewhere)

My advice would be to pick one site or another and stick with it. You'll get opinions all over the map from just one site. When you combine opinions from another, it turns into a convoluted mess.

You're showing signs of extreme confusion already. It's because of too much input with no consistency.

IMO
Click to expand...

agreed 🙂

Honestly though both threads are going down the exact same path at this point... bumping the motor over at this point is where both of them stand.
 
Update: A guy on the SLick 60s forum suggested, in detail how to diagnose the starter switch and he also mentioned a comment about "heavy key rings" which got me thinking as I recently added the remote entry/starter keychain FOB for my wife's car to my truck keyring, making it pretty heavy.

So I crawled under the dash and started looking for the pink wire. Sifting through the next of wires, I noticed a cloth wrapped one. Upon further noticed I noticed some fraying on the cloth where it was resting on the top of the emergency brake lever. Upon further notice that fraying was more like a rough cut directly through the cloth, through the pink insulation and through the silver stranded wire itself... sure as hell, the locking notches in the emergency brake lever had slowly sawed its way through the pink wire.

Pair of scissors, a quick 2 snips and twisting the wires together and she runs good as before. Hell even better with 8 new plugs in her Smile Always the simplest things isnt it?

Just as an FYI, here's some pics of the girl you saved:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/f...ets/72157619802736952/ (some cool artsy photos my wife surprised me with)
http://picasaweb.google.com/potrzebowski/65FordF250# (random shots)

Thanks everyone.
 
Homerboy .. just some advice .. get the correct amount of resistance wire or install about a 10 Ohm, 20 W wirewound resistor in it's place.
If you do not, then your Ignition points will burn out very quickly.
 
you should get a Pertronix Ignitor kit for it. No more messing with points and more voltage at the plugs.

part # 1281 and 91281 for Ignitor II.
 
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