Help! Desperate CC situation! Advice needed

[GDaddy]

So the question comes down to screw your brother or screw your father.

Personally i would let the brother hang out to dry. No reason your father or anyone else should pay for his mistakes. And if he is not stopped the mistakes will get bigger and hurt more people, including yourself.

 

[IronOxide]

it should probably also be known that he has recently (within the last week) started a rehabilitation program in California and is trying to get his life back together. If we were to let him go to jail, I don't know if he would ever be normal (at all) again.

 

[KarenMarie]

Your father is either gonna have to cough up the dough to clear the debt or let your brother go to jail.

 

[crt1530]

Originally posted by: IronOxide
it should probably also be known that he has recently (within the last week) started a rehabilitation program in California and is trying to get his life back together. If we were to let him go to jail, I don't know if he would ever be normal (at all) again.

Rehab? Is he on drugs as well? I'm sure you love your brother, but you can't let one family member destroy the whole family. Are your parents paying for this rehab as well?

 

[IronOxide]

he's more of an alcoholic than a drug user, although he's used plenty of drugs in his lifetime. I don't think that my parents are paying for the rehab at all, my sister has a friend who I think is paying for it.

And, I'm trying to not allow one family member to destroy the whole family. I'm not quite sure why this is my role, as I'm the youngest by 8 years, but for some reason I end up being the only one with the ability to pull us all together (not to say I do this successfully whatsoever).

 

[crt1530]

Good luck. I'd throw my sibling to the wolves if they did that to my parents.

 

[AmerDoux]

I think your wanting to help your brother is admirable but you need to step back from the situation and really take a look at what's happening.

If your brothers mental health issues are such that he is not able to manage his life, then you can begin proceedings to have him declared incompetent by the court. While the California mental health system has its problems it's much better than what is offered in other states. However, based on the little bit of information you've provided (32 y/o, having owned a business, living on his own). I dont think his behavior is related to mental illness. He is able to provide himself a place to live, clothing, and food on the table. IMHO the issue is his being an alcoholic. This scenario fits the pattern.

Your entire family needs to realize that by continuously bailing him out and then rationalizing it that it's due to his mental illness you are an enabling his behavior. This pattern will coninue and it will sink/tear apart your family. You have already begun to lie (or hide the truth) from your father. At what point will you draw the line? At what point does your brother begin to take responsibility for his actions?

It would benefit you to take a little bit of time to research alcoholism and co-dependancy.

 

[IronOxide]

yes, but it is much more than alcoholism, trust me. He is manic depressive and imo (and I believe 1 doctor diagnosed him this way) is schizophrenic as well. He has done a lot of drugs in the past. He has on ocassion done well for himself, but as I've noticed usually comes in cycles of about two years. Whenever they change his medication he gets really screwed up and does something really stupid. In fact when he received this phone call offering him the cc, he was asleep and they had just changed his meds, so I'm not even sure he remembers what he told them. I highly doubt that he has my father's ssn memorized, so I'm sure they asked him if the number was his, as opposed to asking what his ssn was. Anyhow, I still am unsure what to do, but at least you guys have made it clear as to what my options are. Either my parents are screwed or my brother is screwed. I'm sure the cc company isn't going to switch the account into my bro's name without him being in serious trouble. Thanks for your help anandtech!

 

[edro]

My father and I have the same name as well and one of his credit accounts appeared on my credit report. It said the account was open from when I was 8 years old.

I don't see how these companies can confuse these accounts... How many John Smiths get mixed up?!

It should definitely be linked by SS number.

As others have said... your brother committed credit card fraud and should be dealt with by the police.
The only other alternative, if your family loves him, is to pay it off and arrange payment from brother to parents.

 

[crt1530]

Originally posted by: edro
My father and I have the same name as well and one of his credit accounts appeared on my credit report. It said the account was open from when I was 8 years old.

I don't see how these companies can confuse these accounts... How many John Smiths get mixed up?!

It should definitely be linked by SS number.

As others have said... your brother committed credit card fraud and should be dealt with by the police.
The only other alternative, if your family loves him, is to pay it off and arrange payment from brother to parents.

Assuming your father has used that card responsibly, that account is most likely giving your credit score a decent boost. Oldest reporting tradeline and average tradeline age are two factors in your credit score. Both of which would benefit significantly from a credit card that old.

 

[CPA]

They would have to prove that he intentionally and knowingly opend the account in your father's name to prove fraud. From your facts you presented, I don't see how they could prove fraud.

 

[IronOxide]

Originally posted by: CPA
They would have to prove that he intentionally and knowingly opend the account in your father's name to prove fraud. From your facts you presented, I don't see how they could prove fraud.

well, I assume that they record every conversation and probably have a clip of him saying that his dob is my father's dob. That'd be enough to prove fraud right? And they do keep all their recordings right?

 

[ColdFusion718]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: IronOxide

Originally posted by: crt1530

Originally posted by: IronOxide
the ssn is my fathers, and so is the dob, and my brother's already on probation, so that looks to be a pretty bad deal

I doubt that this was inadvertant. I seriously doubt the card was issued without asking your brother for his SSN (i.e. he must have purposefully supplied your father's). Your family should let your brother fend for himself.

I'm not sure exactly what happened, but from what I think happened was that they asked him if his ssn was ____ and he said yes. Anyone see a way out of this?

That sounds BS. I think you and your family need to wake up.

Originally posted by: IronOxide
yes, but it is much more than alcoholism, trust me. He is manic depressive and imo (and I believe 1 doctor diagnosed him this way) is schizophrenic as well. He has done a lot of drugs in the past. He has on ocassion done well for himself, but as I've noticed usually comes in cycles of about two years. Whenever they change his medication he gets really screwed up and does something really stupid. In fact when he received this phone call offering him the cc, he was asleep and they had just changed his meds, so I'm not even sure he remembers what he told them. I highly doubt that he has my father's ssn memorized, so I'm sure they asked him if the number was his, as opposed to asking what his ssn was. Anyhow, I still am unsure what to do, but at least you guys have made it clear as to what my options are. Either my parents are screwed or my brother is screwed. I'm sure the cc company isn't going to switch the account into my bro's name without him being in serious trouble. Thanks for your help anandtech!

You're making excuses for him. There you go with the speculating "I'm pretty sure he..." You have this mindset that people with mental disabilities are ethically infallible (even when they are sane at the moment). Have you considered the fact that your brother may be using his mental illness history as a crutch to justify these actions? As you've illustrated, there's a pattern of behaviors here. Perhaps mental illness has something to do with it, but when did plain irresponsibility and malice go out the window as possible causes? If he is mentally unfit, why isn't he receiving professional therapy (institutional help)? If he is mentally fit, why can't he take responsibilities for his own actions?

I've never had a credit card company read out my SSN to me over the phone. Whenever they needed security verification, they would ask me to read the number to them, and often times only the last 4 digits. In all the years I've dealt with credit card companies and lenders, I've never once had them say, "Is 123-45-6789 your SSN, sir?" Never.

If your brother tells you that they asked him for a simple yes/no on the SSN question, he is lying to you. He willfully committed fraud.

I hate to break it to you, but someone has to go down for this. It's either your brother or your father. I hope it works out for you in the end.

well, I assume that they record every conversation and probably have a clip of him saying that his dob is my father's dob. That'd be enough to prove fraud right? And they do keep all their recordings right?

Not all conversations are recorded as "evidence." Companies record calls mostly for quality assurance purposes.

 

[herbiehancock]

Originally posted by: ColdFusion718


I've never had a credit card company read out my SSN to me over the phone. Whenever they needed security verification, they would ask me to read the number to them.

Your brother is lying to you. He willingly committed fraud.

That's the way I always have had it go. No matter who initiates the offer for credit, be it a card, loan, or whatever, the COMPANY making the offer ASKS the person responding to it to supply the SSN, DOB, and al other pertinent information.........NEVER the other way around.

 

[NogginBoink]

Originally posted by: IronOxide
the ssn is my fathers, and so is the dob, and my brother's already on probation, so that looks to be a pretty bad deal

If your brother knowingly accepted credit that was meant for your father, that's fraud and you'd probably have to press charges against him to get this cleared up. However, if you can demonstrate that your brother is not mentally competent, that's an interesting situation. I'd get a lawyer.

If the credit comapny accidentally offered credit to your brother, thinking they were offering that credit to your father, that's an interesting situation. I'd get a lawyer.

 

[NogginBoink]

IANAL, but I think it's highly doubtful that your brother will go to jail.

 

[Mill]

You are enabling him. Perhaps jail would do him a lot better in assuring that he gets help, because it is obvious your family doesn't have the balls to stand up to him.

 

[D1gger]

Originally posted by: IronOxide
... Whenever they change his medication he gets really screwed up and does something really stupid. In fact when he received this phone call offering him the cc, he was asleep and they had just changed his meds, so I'm not even sure he remembers what he told them. I highly doubt that he has my father's ssn memorized, so I'm sure they asked him if the number was his, as opposed to asking what his ssn was. ...

Originally posted by: IronOxide
well, I assume that they record every conversation and probably have a clip of him saying that his dob is my father's dob. That'd be enough to prove fraud right? And they do keep all their recordings right?

OK which is it; first you justify it that he just agreed that the SSN they read to him must be his, and if we are to believe that we then have to stretch it to believe that your brother doesn't even know his own birthday?

Sounds very much to me like your brother knowingly committed fraud and is now using you and your mother to get him out of another jam.

He will not get better until you and your family stop making it possible for him to continue to get away with his irresponsibility.

My brother was very similar in nature, lots of psychological problems growing up, and we finally had to realize that supporting him wasn't going to help him and it was tearing up the rest of the family. We cut him off and he did end up spending some time in jail, but he now has a job and is making out ok.

 

[PokerGuy]

First, your brother will not go to jail no matter what you do (in regards to the debt). They'd have to prove fraud, and with his mental condition etc they would be very hard pressed to prove that he intentionally lied with the intent to defraud.

Second, your father will not have to pay anything unless he chooses to. He is not responsible for the debt.