Help Deciding New CPU (Ryzen/CL)

[skace]

So this is an obvious thread and I know a few people have asked and I've read most of their threads and nearly every review. So I'm just going to throw this out and see what kind of response I get to my very specific situation.

My I7 920 is dying. Or possibly the memory. Either way - the system is puking left and right. I really wish it was stable right now because I'd be prepared to wait to see how this next month plays out. But right now I am crashing about 6-8 times a day and I'm starting to worry about things like data corruption. Already dropped my entire OC.

Now, both the Ryzen (Doesn't really matter which one, lets say 1700x) and the I7 8700K and 8600K appeal to me. Here are my concerns:
1. I game, I do other things, but I game and it looks like CL really wins in a number of scenarios. If it were available right now, I'd have bought it already. I'm having a hard time quantifying whether the scenarios matter to me. I am a twitch gamer although I don't do a lot of it. My monitor is maxed at 60HZ but it is also long in the tooth and will be replaced shortly with something that goes higher (and not something that goes 4K). Dell 30" 3007 FPW-HC for the record.
2. I don't like the heat numbers I'm seeing for CL. It seems to get roughly panned over in reviews, however it looks like it runs really hot. I've never delidded, I'm tempted to do it, but the fact that the Ryzen has proper solder is really appealing to me. I plan to use a Noctua air cooler and would rather run something nice and cool.
3. I can buy Ryzen today and I keep waiting but CL I can't seem to get my damn hands on.
4. I'm worried that while Ryzen should be a huge upgrade over what I have, that the IPC issues may actually bother me in comparison to what I could have gotten. I know my previous 3.8GHZ overclock isn't the same as a Ryzen 3.8 GHZ overclock but I somehow can't seem to get it out of my head when comparing it to the possibility of moving up to 5 GHZ.

What would you do? If I did buy CL would I receive it within a week?

 

[Markfw]

Nobody can really predict when you get it, so I will assume the worst, and say Early November (not unrealistic).

But lets look at the Ryzen situation. In most games, unless you are doing 4k and 144 mhz refresh and have a 1080TI, you will NEVER see a difference, Even with all those it only looses by 5-10% and is still usually way over 120 fps.

 

[raghu78]

OP if you are going to run a 1440p 60 Hz monitor you will not see any difference between 1700@4 Ghz and 8700k@5 Ghz. You need a 120 or 144 Hz monitor to really see the difference. CFL is a good choice given that it has competitive MT perf and much superior ST perf against Ryzen. If you can order and wait for 2-3 weeks go for 8700k. Unless you are really going to run apps which utilize all 8 cores I would recommend a R5 1600 with a decent B350 motherboard. The best value for money processor.

 

[ozzy702]

Unless you're going 120Hz or higher it doesn't really matter what you buy. Ryzen works great in almost every scenario up to 100hz and in many above that. The only reason to choose CF over Ryzen is if you want to game at 120hz+. I game at 1440p @ 144hz with a 1080ti and eventually with it's Volta successor. I didn't want my CPU to be the bottleneck so I ordered up an 8700k to replace my 7700k that is going to my brother. I was actually considering Skylake-X and Threadripper but since most of my heavy lifting is in gaming I couldn't bring myself to go backwards in ST performance.

 

[epsilon84]

But lets look at the Ryzen situation. In most games, unless you are doing 4k and 144 mhz refresh and have a 1080TI, you will NEVER see a difference, Even with all those it only looses by 5-10% and is still usually way over 120 fps.

I think you mean 1080P gaming, not 4K, which is almost entirely GPU bound.

1080P on the other hand is very CPU bound with a 1080 Ti and the differences are far greater than 5 - 10% on average. Though the old chestnut of Ryzen being 'good enough' for gaming always pops up in threads like these.

To the OP, what GPU will you be running? What resolution do you plan to game on once you upgrade your monitor? This will have a big impact on whether the difference between CFL and Ryzen is 'significant' or 'almost nothing'. Without this information we can't really give you the best advice.

Also, as Raghu said you need a high Hz gaming monitor to see the difference between CFL and Ryzen. He is also right that there is no point spending the extra on the 1700 vs 1600/1600X if gaming is your primary concern. All in all, the 8600K/8700K will give you the best gaming performance, but how much of that extra performance you will be able to see depends on your GPU and monitor.

 

[Reinvented]

I love Ryzen. Couldn't be happier with it. 1700X is nice, and will serve you well! In fact, with the money saved by going Ryzen, you could easily upgrade other parts! Get an NVME, a nicer gaming monitor, put more towards better cooling, and heck, even a nicer GPU. You'd hardly notice a difference at all.

 

[coercitiv]

OP, you should stop thinking of CFL in terms of 5Ghz overclocks & running cool & running on air. If I were you I would consider only a 4.6-4.8 all core overclock, unless you change your mind and go with water cooling or are willing to accept high fan speeds / high temps under certain loads.

Going past the monitor choice which has already been covered by fellow forum members, you should also consider form factor: right now AM4 is lacking in terms of premium mATX and maybe even mITX boards. On the mATX front there are decent boards, but they don't come with some of the better features, including powerful VRM setups to drive the highest overclocks (may be a problem for 4-4.1Ghz, not for 3.8-3.9 Ghz). The mITX front looks better on the feature side, there is at least one ASRock board which ticks most requirements... except for VRM cooling which may not easily accommodate 8c/16t (you would have to check forums and latest revision of the motherboard). However, if you're going for ATX... then ignore any of the above.

One big advantage of the AM4 choice is the cost: you can go with 1600(X) and a decent mobo, and then potentially switch to Intel while incurring a small loss. If you find a secondary use for the AM4 platform, that loss may be considered zero considering your current context (system dying). Also, given the fact that you're not budget constrained and you're not considering using a stock cooler, I would strongly suggest you go with 1600X instead of 1600, the higher stock clocks and (probable) better silicon quality is well worth the extra price. For the record, since this information is not clearly presented in reviews, a properly cooled 1600X will work at 3700Mhz for all core loads in stock config. Together with the 4Ghz boost for 1/2 core loads this kinda eliminates the need for OC, or at least turns it into hobby activity for rainy days.

On the other side of the pond, given the age of your current system, if you're going Intel I strongly suggest you consider 8700 and 8700K before 8600K. The i5 is an excellent choice for people who build for the next 2-4 years and will upgrade after that, but keeping the system longer will likely see 8700 outshine even an overclocked 8600K in terms of utility.

I currently own both a Ryzen and a CFL system, and I can tell you that so far I'm satisfied with both, although both have (or had) their share of little quirks and issues. If I had to make the choice for you in a world where availability would not be a problem, I would choose CFL. Ryzen would be a secondary, yet comfortable choice.

 

[TigerMonsoonDragon]

In your case, ryzen, runs cooler and cheaper.

But it's a 1st Gen so there are issues. By now the bios have matured however I still see reports of ram not working etc.

Even with that said I'm going ryzen....next year for gen 2

 

[NTMBK]

I would go for Coffee Lake. You managed to hold onto your Nehalem system for all these years, so you definitely make your CPUs last. I would pay extra and get the best single threaded performance.

 

[epsilon84]

Thats one consideration that I think we should all take into account, if the OP keeps his next CPU for as long as the i7 920 (7 years?) then the 8700K would be the most 'future proof' of all currently available CPUs when it comes to having the performance to handle future games. It's all about CPU headroom. I'm confident the 8700K will have the performance to handle games well into the next decade.

I'm not so sure a 8600K (thread limited) or Ryzen (IPC/clockspeed limited) would fare as well in games in 5 years time, for example. Just a consideration for those recommending the cheaper CPUs. This could be a case of a higher initial outlay paying off in the long term. An extra $100 isn't much if the OP intends to keep the platform for many years.

 

[Zor Prime]

I ran a Phenom II X6 until the Ryzen 1700 (3.9/3200). Couldn't be happier. Like everyone else said, at 60hz it doesn't matter. In Mass Effect Andromeda which uses EA's latest and greatest GFX engine, coupled with a 1070, I average around 80-90 FPS with everything on ultra at 1440p. If you go Ryzen, you do need to take RAM into account. Also, get an NVMe drive or swap in a previous SSD at a minimum ...

Either setup is just gonna whip anything you throw at it for a good while.

 

[Zucker2k]

CFL 8700K. There's a huge stock coming in the next two weeks. Anything else, you're just complicating your gaming life. Unless, of course, you want to go with the "good enough" argument. Remember, you're already leaving significant gaming performance (up to 20%+ on average iirc) by choosing Ryzen. That is overhead that would come in handy in the near future. The Ryzen system will tank much earlier than CFL. I don't even see the next Ryzen iteration beating CFL in gaming. CFL has a 10% IPC advantage, and 15 - 20% clock speed advantage depending on how far you want to overclock your chip. This means, CFL is going to be the dominant gaming platform regardless of what AMD brings next, since they're looking at a 10% clock speed bump, which would mean clock speeds of 4.4GHz, best case. The choice should really be clear here.

 

[frozentundra123456]

In the total cost of a system, Coffee Lake 8700k is only about 10% more, but gives you 20 to 25 percent better single thread performance, and very good multi-threaded performance as well. If you keep the system 5 years, even a 200 dollar price difference (more expensive motherboard as well as cpu) is only 40 dollars a year. It would definitely be my choice. If you do decide to go with Ryzen, as others have said, the 1600/1600x is a better value for gaming than the 1700x.

 

[scannall]

Just get the Ryzen. You can buy it now, no hassles. There won't be a perceptible difference in gaming. Further, the platform has longer legs. If in a few years you decide to upgrade your CPU, you won't have to replace the motherboard as well. With the $200 or so you'll save, you can get a much nice GPU for instance.

 

[IRobot23]

Man, you do not need R7 1700 for gaming.

If I were you :
1. AM4 (since 7nm should give decent upgrade), decent ~ 130-180$
2. R5 1600/X depends if you are going for aftermarket cooler get X.
3. DDR4 3200M CL 16 16 16 39 ( or better)

Save money, for 144Hz monitor or you other life purposes.

Unless you are going to play game that is mostly ST bounded it is best build.

 

[TheGiant]

Get 8700K. My guess there won't be a CPU on the market for gaming that replaces this chip Oced to 4,8GHz on air for at least 3 years.
But you will change your GPU definitely and current ryzen will be the bottleneck. We will see it when 2080 comes out.

My build for you - 8700K, good high freq RAM, 1080Ti, 144Hz monitor. You will change only GPU ine the next 5 years.

If you don't need 144Hz monitor, get Ryzen immediately.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

I say get the i7-8700k and forget ever thinking anything about Ryzen. I had a Ryzen r7 1800x and I had nothing but problems from day one. You dont need all those headaches going through all the crap I had to go through. Just get CFL which just works with out issues and dont look back!! You'll thank me in the long run. Also later next year closer to about this time next year we will get a drop in upgrade, hoping for 8c/16t..

 

[repoman0]

I say get the i7-8700k and forget ever thinking anything about Ryzen. I had a Ryzen r7 1800x and I had nothing but problems from day one. You dont need all those headaches going through all the crap I had to go through. Just get CFL which just works with out issues and dont look back!! You'll thank me in the long run. Also later next year closer to about this time next year we will get a drop in upgrade, hoping for 8c/16t..

So because you had issues with your system, everyone will? Seems to me like the vast majority of people with Ryzen systems are doing just fine.

The reason to buy Coffee Lake is that for the most part it's a little faster right now, not this FUD that Ryzen systems are unstable.

The drop in upgrade bit applies to both systems as well, so is not an advantage for CL. Socket AM4 will last a lot longer so it's actually more of an advantage for AMD.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

So because you had issues with your system, everyone will? Seems to me like the vast majority of people with Ryzen systems are doing just fine.

The reason to buy Coffee Lake is that for the most part it's a little faster right now, not this FUD that Ryzen systems are unstable.

The drop in upgrade bit applies to both systems as well, so is not an advantage for CL. Socket AM4 will last a lot longer so it's actually more of an advantage for AMD.

Its not FUD its fact!! Ryzen systems have Linux bugs, Windows 10 bugs, and are incompatible still with a huge majority of RAM. so how is this FUD? Also CFL is 10-15% faster and only has 6 cores vs 8 cores on Ryzen and soon as the 8 core drop in happens its only going to get worse for AMD to try to keep up..

 

[repoman0]

Its not FUD its fact!! Ryzen systems have Linux bugs, Windows 10 bugs, and are incompatible still with a huge majority of RAM. so how is this FUD? Also CFL is 10-15% faster and only has 6 cores vs 8 cores on Ryzen and soon as the 8 core drop in happens its only going to get worse for AMD to try to keep up..

Nah, it's FUD. Linux bug is fixed with any semi-recent silicon. I don't even know what Windows 10 bugs you're talking about. RAM compatibility is hugely increased since release, and even so it's not that hard to buy memory from motherboard QVLs, it's all the same price anyway. And still, I accidentally bought the "wrong" "Intel" RAM and am running it on a B350 board at 3200/14-14-14 timings.

Plus, the 8 core on Z370 is not even confirmed, as far as I know, so even more FUD there, whereas the official AMD roadmap has Zen 2 at a smaller process node confirmed for AM4.

 

[Reinvented]

Nah, it's FUD. Linux bug is fixed with any semi-recent silicon. I don't even know what Windows 10 bugs you're talking about. RAM compatibility is hugely increased since release, and even so it's not that hard to buy memory from motherboard QVLs, it's all the same price anyway. And still, I accidentally bought the "wrong" "Intel" RAM and am running it on a B350 board at 3200/14-14-14 timings.

Plus, the 8 core on Z370 is not even confirmed, as far as I know, so even more FUD there, whereas the official AMD roadmap has Zen 2 at a smaller process node confirmed for AM4.

He was the one that never bothered to do research or RMA his Ryzen CPU when some were having that problem, so instead he just bashes it for not doing his own homework. Laziness at it's finest.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Its not FUD its fact!! Ryzen systems have Linux bugs, Windows 10 bugs, and are incompatible still with a huge majority of RAM. so how is this FUD?

Please. I've run Ryzen since literally day 1, and have had zero issues with memory. Let me tell you my 1700 do not like Crucial/Micron RAM, but it works fine at stock. Its only when overclocking memory there can be some issues. Overclocking is far as I know never guaranteed.

Ryzen is rated for 2666MHz (DC SR, two DIMMs), 2400MHz (DC DR, Two DIMMs) and so on. Everything above that is overclocking.

 

[IRobot23]

I say get the i7-8700k and forget ever thinking anything about Ryzen. I had a Ryzen r7 1800x and I had nothing but problems from day one. You dont need all those headaches going through all the crap I had to go through. Just get CFL which just works with out issues and dont look back!! You'll thank me in the long run. Also later next year closer to about this time next year we will get a drop in upgrade, hoping for 8c/16t..

Can you tell me about your problems, I mean I did build few ryzen system, no problem at all.

I mean after bios updates its pretty easy to achieve 3200MT/s. Even overclocking DDR4 2133MHz/2400MHz to 2993/3200MHz is easy on ryzen system. Above 3200MHz you need little more to do, but its working fine.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

You guys are so blinded by brand names its not even funny...

 

[repoman0]

You guys are so blinded by brand names its not even funny...

LOL. Got called on his FUD so resorts to this bs. My two systems before this one were Sandy Bridge and Skylake, kid.