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Help choosing a NAS for home network

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Originally posted by: mikeyd55
Do you have any thoughts on cooling the 2 ? 4 500 Gb. hd?s in a NAS vs. ?SOHO file server? case? I?ll be using an Antec SX1040BII case, which is about three years old and limited to 80mm fans (2 up front & 2 in rear). The hard drives mount up front in slide out cages and are cooled by the rear mounted fans pulling air from the front vents across the drives. I may, however, be able to mount two drives behind a front fan, which I think would be ideal.
Click to expand...

It's design -- if you design for it, you can cool your system and drives very well. If the NAS designer did so, the same. However, you can ensure that it's a priority for yourself, while you'd have to take it as it comes with a pre-built NAS box. For some of these, esp. as it's more difficult with a small compact cosmetically pleasing box, cooling is lower on the priority list compared with most things. On the plus side, a low-powered NAS box could itself be cooler to start. Some NAS boxes have been noisy; the shift has probably gone in the opposite direction, with NAS boxes being quiet, but not necessarily well-cooled.

HDs do not require much airflow, but they should have a bit.

80mm fans as in the old Antecs can do a good job of cooling, but at a risk of relatively high noise with certain fans. For that, I'd recommend getting a fan controller. Most of these are pretty inexpensive considering HD cost etc., and as long as you have a free slot for the face plate if required, you can tune down the noise to optimal for your needs, trading off noise & airflow.

Another option is an add-on drive cage such as the Thermaltake iCage among several others including Lian Li. These will typically fit in external 5.25 slots, allow you to install a variable number of 3.5 HD's, and provide their own fan and ideally a fan filter as well. The iCages hold 3 drives, and require 3 external slots -- no capacity increase. Comes with a 120mm fan. Lian Li's can do 4 for 3 or 3 for 2, with a filter. Cooler Masters are sometimes case-sensitive; they wouldn't work in an Antec case I'd tried. I'd recommend this in addition to the fan controller as an option, not as a replacement, as you still have exhaust fans to deal with.

Your silence might be limited by your existing power supply or exhaust fans. The latter at least can be tuned down closer to silence, but most people shouldn't muck around with PSU internals. And while you're probably limited by some of this older gear, you should be able to bring down the fan noise quite a bit with a fan controller.
 
Originally posted by: mikeyd55
Any thoughts or recommendations for 500 Gb s-ata hard drives? When I was considered going with with the Infrant NAS, I was looking at Hitachi units (primarily because they're on Infrant's approved drive list). What features should I look for in drives used for soho file server duty or should I buy strictly based on best price?
Click to expand...

Tough call. I guess I'd go for the WD RE or the Seagate 7200.10's myself. Both should have nice warranties and decent performance. But the real answer here is -- don't count on the drives and RAID recovery / etc., have a separate backup in addition.

 
you can either choose a mobo that does RAID, or you can buy an expansion card that will do it

if you buy a NAS you have to pick and choose which features are available, with a DIY fileserver, you get whatever you want, plus later can add whatever you forgot to consider 😉
 
Originally posted by: Madwand1
Originally posted by: mikeyd55
Any thoughts or recommendations for 500 Gb s-ata hard drives? When I was considered going with with the Infrant NAS, I was looking at Hitachi units (primarily because they're on Infrant's approved drive list). What features should I look for in drives used for soho file server duty or should I buy strictly based on best price?
Click to expand...

Tough call. I guess I'd go for the WD RE or the Seagate 7200.10's myself. Both should have nice warranties and decent performance. But the real answer here is -- don't count on the drives and RAID recovery / etc., have a separate backup in addition.
Click to expand...

Please explain what you mean by separate backup in addition. Are you suggesting a separate NAS to back up the server PC, or can I just add a third 500 Gb drive? I'm RAID "challenged" at the moment. I need to get up to speed on the different configurations possible.

 
Either of those situations would work. You can either have another NAS that you backup to or another internal hard drive that you back up to. RAID is NOT a backup solution, it is just to provide redundancy against one of the hard drives failing on you. backups are in case of accidental file deleting, viruses, etc. The best method in this case would probably be another hard drive in a USB enclosure connected to the file server. To be honest, if this isn't a business setting, you really don't even need RAID. Just put in your hard drives, configure them as RAID 0 (I don't consider RAID 0 actually RAID because it provides no redundancy) and make daily or weekly backups to another USB hard drive. If your RAID 0 fails, you have your backups to recover from. If it's a business setting, I'd say go RAID 5 with 4 hard drives (one as a hot spare) and then also backup to USB drives.
 
If you have the spare parts to assemble a PC, you might want to try FreeNAS which is a NAS OS. Its worth trying.
 
Originally posted by: mikeyd55
Please explain what you mean by separate backup in addition. Are you suggesting a separate NAS to back up the server PC, or can I just add a third 500 Gb drive?
Click to expand...

I mean anything that can be separate from your server, offline, and be used to recover at least the important data after a complete failure of the server. Yep, that's pretty broad and non-specific -- you have to figure out what's good for your needs.

For a small data store, I'd probably go with a single large external drive connected via USB2/firewire/eSATA. Tape might be affordable at smaller sizes too. Things get more difficult when you have a ton of data, and another server/external array of some sort might be the solution in that case. It'd be nice if we had affordable HVD or something like that, but we don't.
 
Originally posted by: kevnich2
Either of those situations would work. You can either have another NAS that you backup to or another internal hard drive that you back up to. RAID is NOT a backup solution, it is just to provide redundancy against one of the hard drives failing on you. backups are in case of accidental file deleting, viruses, etc. The best method in this case would probably be another hard drive in a USB enclosure connected to the file server. To be honest, if this isn't a business setting, you really don't even need RAID. Just put in your hard drives, configure them as RAID 0 (I don't consider RAID 0 actually RAID because it provides no redundancy) and make daily or weekly backups to another USB hard drive. If your RAID 0 fails, you have your backups to recover from. If it's a business setting, I'd say go RAID 5 with 4 hard drives (one as a hot spare) and then also backup to USB drives.
Click to expand...

Received the first piece of my server/home grown NAS puzzle today (Intel DQ965GF mb). I'm thinking 2 - 500 Gb drives in a RAID-1 (mirror) setup. The mb supports 6 s-ata drives and two p-ata drives. I still don't understand why I would need to backup when I will have a mirror image at all times. Do you know if I can install the OS (Initially Win 2K Pro) on a smaller, third (boot) drive without interfering with the RAID setup?
 
Originally posted by: mikeyd55
I still don't understand why I would need to backup when I will have a mirror image at all times.
Click to expand...
Here's my ranking of the safety of various data storage options. Note that the main purpose of redundant arrays (RAID1, RAID5, etc.) is uptime, rather than data security:

SAFEST
-------------------------------------------
Offsite Disconnected Backup (tape, hard drive, CD/DVD)
Major Risks: Defective media.

Onsite Disconnected Backup (tape, hard drive, CD/DVD)
Major Risks: Fire, theft, flood, defective media.

Onsite Connected Backup (mostly hard drive)
Major Risks: Fire, theft, flood, virus, power surge, accidental deletion, defective media.

Onsite RAID1 (with no backup)
Major Risks: Fire, theft, flood, virus, power surge, accidental deletion, RAID controller failure, multiple drive failure, RAID array mismanagement (human error).
Note: Easiest array recovery in event of RAID failure.

Onsite RAID5 (with no backup)
Major Risks: Fire, theft, flood, virus, power surge, accidental deletion, RAID controller failure, multiple drive failure, RAID array mismanagement (human error).
Note: Much more difficult data recovery than RAID1 in event of RAID failure.

Onsite non-RAID (with no backup)
Major Risks: Fire, theft, flood, virus, power surge, accidental deletion, drive controller failure, single drive failure.

Onsite RAID0 (with no backup)
Major Risks: Fire, theft, flood, virus, power surge, accidental deletion, RAID controller failure, single drive failure, RAID array mismanagement (human error).
Note: Much more difficult data recovery than RAID1 or non-RAID in event of RAID failure.
--------------------------------
LEAST SAFE

Notes:
1) In some areas, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, and earthquakes can be significant risks. Keeping offsite backups in the same city may be inadequate. Businesses in New Orleans, for instance, were at risk of losing ALL their data because of Hurricane Katrina, even though they kept their data in two different locations.
2) Approximately one in twenty-five homes are burglarized each year in the U.S. Computers are among the most-popular items to steal.
3) Approximately one in twenty hard drives fail each year.
4) There were 400,000 home fires reported in the U.S. in 2002.
 
As stated before, RAID is NOT a backup solution. It's merely a protection against the drives failing. If you have RAID5 and your controller dies, your going to have a VERY tough time recovering without a backup solution. For most, home solutions, I don't really think RAID is necessary. RAID merely provides uptime if a hard drive fails. But if your data gets a virus or someone accidentally deletes a file, etc, even with RAID, your data is gone. With backups, you can restore your data afterwards.
 
Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Originally posted by: mikeyd55
I still don't understand why I would need to backup when I will have a mirror image at all times.
Click to expand...
Here's my ranking of the safety of various data storage options. Note that the main purpose of redundant arrays (RAID1, RAID5, etc.) is uptime, rather than data security:

SAFEST
-------------------------------------------
Offsite Disconnected Backup (tape, hard drive, CD/DVD)
Major Risks: Defective media.

Onsite Disconnected Backup (tape, hard drive, CD/DVD)
Major Risks: Fire, theft, flood, defective media.

Onsite Connected Backup (mostly hard drive)
Major Risks: Fire, theft, flood, virus, power surge, accidental deletion, defective media.

Onsite RAID1 (with no backup)
Major Risks: Fire, theft, flood, virus, power surge, accidental deletion, RAID controller failure, multiple drive failure, RAID array mismanagement (human error).
Note: Easiest array recovery in event of RAID failure.

Onsite RAID5 (with no backup)
Major Risks: Fire, theft, flood, virus, power surge, accidental deletion, RAID controller failure, multiple drive failure, RAID array mismanagement (human error).
Note: Much more difficult data recovery than RAID1 in event of RAID failure.

Onsite non-RAID (with no backup)
Major Risks: Fire, theft, flood, virus, power surge, accidental deletion, drive controller failure, single drive failure.

Onsite RAID0 (with no backup)
Major Risks: Fire, theft, flood, virus, power surge, accidental deletion, RAID controller failure, single drive failure, RAID array mismanagement (human error).
Note: Much more difficult data recovery than RAID1 or non-RAID in event of RAID failure.
--------------------------------
LEAST SAFE

Notes:
1) In some areas, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, and earthquakes can be significant risks. Keeping offsite backups in the same city may be inadequate. Businesses in New Orleans, for instance, were at risk of losing ALL their data because of Hurricane Katrina, even though they kept their data in two different locations.
2) Approximately one in twenty-five homes are burglarized each year in the U.S. Computers are among the most-popular items to steal.
3) Approximately one in twenty hard drives fail each year.
4) There were 400,000 home fires reported in the U.S. in 2002.
Click to expand...


It's much clearer now, thanks for the education! Can you comment on my question of using a separate (boot) hard drive which is not part of the RAID-1 setup? Would such a scenario work?
 
Originally posted by: mikeyd55
Can you comment on my question of using a separate (boot) hard drive which is not part of the RAID-1 setup? Would such a scenario work?
Click to expand...

Yes of course, and such a configuration, separating the OS and the RAID array, is the recommended approach, as it makes RAID management and even OS installation easier. (Some do RAID 1 of the OS as well, but notably as a separate array from the data.)
 
Originally posted by: mikeyd55
Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Originally posted by: mikeyd55
I still don't understand why I would need to backup when I will have a mirror image at all times.
Click to expand...
Here's my ranking of the safety of various data storage options. Note that the main purpose of redundant arrays (RAID1, RAID5, etc.) is uptime, rather than data security:

SAFEST
-------------------------------------------
Offsite Disconnected Backup (tape, hard drive, CD/DVD)
Major Risks: Defective media.

Onsite Disconnected Backup (tape, hard drive, CD/DVD)
Major Risks: Fire, theft, flood, defective media.

Onsite Connected Backup (mostly hard drive)
Major Risks: Fire, theft, flood, virus, power surge, accidental deletion, defective media.

Onsite RAID1 (with no backup)
Major Risks: Fire, theft, flood, virus, power surge, accidental deletion, RAID controller failure, multiple drive failure, RAID array mismanagement (human error).
Note: Easiest array recovery in event of RAID failure.

Onsite RAID5 (with no backup)
Major Risks: Fire, theft, flood, virus, power surge, accidental deletion, RAID controller failure, multiple drive failure, RAID array mismanagement (human error).
Note: Much more difficult data recovery than RAID1 in event of RAID failure.

Onsite non-RAID (with no backup)
Major Risks: Fire, theft, flood, virus, power surge, accidental deletion, drive controller failure, single drive failure.

Onsite RAID0 (with no backup)
Major Risks: Fire, theft, flood, virus, power surge, accidental deletion, RAID controller failure, single drive failure, RAID array mismanagement (human error).
Note: Much more difficult data recovery than RAID1 or non-RAID in event of RAID failure.
--------------------------------
LEAST SAFE

Notes:
1) In some areas, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, and earthquakes can be significant risks. Keeping offsite backups in the same city may be inadequate. Businesses in New Orleans, for instance, were at risk of losing ALL their data because of Hurricane Katrina, even though they kept their data in two different locations.
2) Approximately one in twenty-five homes are burglarized each year in the U.S. Computers are among the most-popular items to steal.
3) Approximately one in twenty hard drives fail each year.
4) There were 400,000 home fires reported in the U.S. in 2002.
Click to expand...


It's much clearer now, thanks for the education! Can you comment on my question of using a separate (boot) hard drive which is not part of the RAID-1 setup? Would such a scenario work?
Click to expand...

You definately don't want your OS on the same hard drive or partition as your RAID, that's just asking for trouble. As far as backing up, I'd recommend using a simple USB hard drive, run some type of backup program then simply turn off the hard drive when not in use.
 
Well, I put it all together and it's up and running! I used an Intel DQ965GF mb, a 3.0 GHz CPU, 1 Gb DDR2 667 RAM, WD 74 GB Raptor as boot drive & 2-500 Gb WD "RE2" drives (supposed to share the "enterprise level" innards of the RAPTOR & reviewed well on Anandtech's site) in RAID-1, all under the control of Win 2k Pro configured to power down hard drives off after 20 min (in this way the RAID volume remains visible on the network and drives spin-up when folder is accessed). I even went the extra mile, following the recommendations in the forum, and purchased an external backup device (WD 500 Gb "My Book" $ 199. at Costco strating 2/5).

At this point I need some advice on tweaking for best peformance. To start with, I'm running Norton AV 2006, and was wondering if it should be configured any differently than a desktop would. I will primarily be using the server to move large amounts of data at one time, such as when backing up numerous files/folders prior to a new OS installs, accessing large audio an jpeg files (in slide shows). Don't know what I expected, but my first transfer was a 60 Gb folder containing about 60k files, which took all night to complete! I have to say, though, when accessing the occasional audio or jpg file, it's noticeably more responsive than the Linksys NSLU2 NAS it replaced. I'm using three Antec 80mm 3-speed fans (set to low) to keep a constant, yet quiet air flow through the case.

Glad I built it!
 
Congratulations! It's good to hear about successfully completed projects.

"All night" for 60 GB is slow. 60 GB / 60 K files ~ 1 MB / file. These aren't very big files, and small files don't transfers as efficiently as large files due to security and file managment, etc., overhead, but should still transfer in about an hour instead of "all night" at gigabit speeds.

Of course, if you're not already using gigabit on both ends, with a gigabit switch / router connecting them, then that'd be the first thing to do to improve speed.

If you're already gigabit end to end, then you might double-check with large files that you're actually getting gigabit speed (at least 20-30 MB/s) across the network, and go from there.

You might try temporarily disabling the AV to see if it has a performance impact, if your files have been scanned already.
 
Originally posted by: Tikker
I've got a NSLU2 as well, and I feel your pain 😉

the Dlink unit looks very promising, but I've never had any luck with their products(other than NICs)

Tom's Hardware has a good writeup with comparison's of NAS units
Click to expand...

NSLU2 here as well.... Problem with it it that it can't spin down the drives when idle.

The Dlink has been getting some bad press lately... shoddy firmware not ready for primetime. I'd like one though and am waiting for the next firmware release. Also looking at the Thecus NAS>
 
I have the D-Link DNS-323 NAS on my network at home. I have had it just under a month, running two Seagate 7200.10 500Gig SATA drives in a RAID1 array. I have yet to have any major issues with it. I am running firmware 1.02. I have the iTunes server enabled, and it works like a champ. I have the FTP server enabled as well, and I found 1 issue where if you type the IP address into a browser, it gives full read access at ROOT, but if you do ftp://<login>:<password>@<ftpipaddress>:<port> then it CORRECTLY logs in and views only what it should. Going through command prompt works flawlessy. I am having issues getting the email notifications to work, and I suspect a possible problem with the firmware on that one, because I have a D-Link WRT-2310 router, which ALSO does email notifications, and they work without a hitch, but the DNS-323 just can't seem to send them out. I have it set so that it spins down the drives after 5 minutes of inactivity, and it is very quiet. When the drives spin up it becomes audible, but isn't bad.

I enjoy this unit, and also like that I have the drives mirrored so that in the (unlikely) event that one fails, I can rebuild the array with a new drive. I haven't yet had a problem with a SINGLE Seagate drive yet, and I have been using them for years. (knock on wood).

Congrats on your build BTW.
 
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