Help - Case & Water Cool for Hi Spec Gaming System

[Ridesy]

Hi,

I am trying to research the best options for a suitable case and best parts for a watercool set-up for a hi-spec games system.

I want to put in a top-end FX processor (60 or 57) with PC4000 memory, 2 x 7900GTX 512 cards (which I will OC myself) and a couple of RAID arrays (2 x 74GB Raptors for OS etc and 2 x 300Gb SATA2 drives for storage).

I have always stuck with air-cooling in the past (probably nerves), but with the A8N32 SLI Deluxe MOB I know that heat is a real issue in SLI systems and these 7900 GTX GPU's reach 75C+ in high graphic games with air cooling, so this time I want to water/liquid cool the CPU and both GPU's.

I know from reading that I will need a hefty set-up to achieve that level of cooling (been suggested triple 120mm rad etc...), but does anyone have good links to test reports on parts that will work well together and also what case I should be looking at to make attaching triple rads etc.... as easy as possible?

I hope to start putting the thing together in a month or so, but really need to get some firm ideas on the water cool part of this rig, as that is all new to me.

Any help would be greatfully received.

Ridesy

 

[Luckyboy1]

Is your heart set on a kit or would you be open to the idea of a build yourself unit that wouldn't be as neat, but would outperform any kit?

 

[Ridesy]

Luckyboy,

Definitely looking at best parts to build kit rather than "kit", as I understand this is more likely to give best performance.

Hence any advice on case that would make building my own watercool rig into easier would be good too.

Ridesy

 

[Luckyboy1]

It all comes down to the quality of water blocks and radiator size. Some water blocks are fully twice as efficient as the cheap ones. some water blocks are very efficient, but are hard to mount correctly and therefore, in my opinion, simply not worth the trouble, especially when you can get one just as efficient that works well. I'd get a water block for the CPU that can later accept a Peltier even if you have no plans to Peltier now or in the future. I reccomend and use Danger Den water blocks and the all copper ones give the best bang for the buck...

http://www.dangerden.com/news.php

Click on the instructions option from the main page and sit back and watch in Media Player format how easy it is to install the blocks. They are really thought out well in advance.

Then you are going to need in my opinion, an exernal radiator. I use one of these...

http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merch..._Code=hayden-transaver&Product_Count=3

Get the big, blocky kind and NOT the cheaper tube and fin types. You use wire ties to mount four, 120 mm fans on it so that it sucks air towards the fans. You use air conditioning filter media on the other side of the radiator to keep it from getting gunked up. Take all the positive leads from the 4, 120 mm fans and put them in common and soldier a 5 ohm, ceramic resistor in front of that and run your +12 volts to that. You use a couple of cup hanging type hooks and screw them to the back, upper and inside area on your desk and mount the radiator simply by hagning it on the hooks. This may seem overkill at first, but trust my experience when I tell you it will be quiet, trouble free and not siffer from heat gain while being mostly out of the way.

I'd save an old power supply to run the pump and the fans on. You'll want a reservior and after that, the only time you really spend any money is possibly when you upgrade chipsets or video card types and not always. Sometimes, you luck out and the old ones work.

Edit:

And as far as a case goes, a full sized case is best and case cooling is still important and wide is almost as important as tall is. Problem is, they don't make a case I exactly endorse due to not being both tall and wide and not made of aluminum or something else not needed as far as expense goes.

 

[Maxspeed996]

Luckyboy....I've got to see a picture of your setup....that is the biggest baddest core I've ever even THOUGHT of using on a PC. But the idea is AWESOME. Im actually curious if 4 120mm fans can actually keep that beast cool... I've three or four 350 watt power supplies in my closet that could be set up to just run a cooling set up... so you've piqued my intrest....

 

[Luckyboy1]

Well, I've got the gaming rig in pieces and am waiting on an rMA, so that will have to wait for now, but yes, I'm going to write it all up sooner or later.

 

[essasin]

What is your budget?

I am assuming you have a very large budget from looking at component selction. In which case, I would get skip watercooling and go phase change. FX's are hitting 4ghz on phase change.

As far the best watercooling setup

cpu block: Storm G4, G5, or if your lucky G7. There is also a swiftech verison of the G5.

rad: 120x3 Thermochill. or a huge heatercore.

pump: I'd get an iwaki there are many to chose from.

case: Mountain mods UFO. Its bascially a giant cube comprised of two cases side by side. The case already has pre drilled holes for radiators and more mountings for fans than you could ever ask for.

 

[Luckyboy1]

Here's an old review that's still not all that dated and it shows the difference in efficiencies of different water blocks....

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MzU3LCwsaGVudGh1c2lhc3Q=


The problem with compressed cooling is it is both loud with the compressor and the compressor kicking in and out makes for some pretty good line bumps and the cases are so small after considering all the compression equiptment that there's hardly room to water cool the video card, much less two of them or the chipset etc or pay much atention to overall case cooling. Also, in the end, you gain a whole 2% by going from good quality Peltier cooling to compressor units.

 

[Ridesy]

Hi Guys,

I am building a picture of a system and just want to check my list below and ask some final advice.

So far...

1. Triple Rad - either Thermochill PA120.3, or Swiftech MCR320
2. CPU Block - either Dangerden copper TDX, or Swiftech APOGEE
3. VGA Blocks - either Dangerden NV-78 SLI, or Swiftech MCW60 x 2

However questions:

1. Pump - Everyone is recommending Iwaki pumps, but the models available in UK are different to US and in particular use 20mm barbed pipe connections.
Can anyone advise an Iwaki pump model that would be correct with the above bits and I will see if I can get hold of it here in UK?
Or anyone got any ideas on how to cope with 20mm barbed inlet?

2. Single or Double loop???? As I have some very hot bits to cool (particularly the two 7900 GTX GPU's) I am worried that with one loop the coolant will be very hot by the time it reaches the last item in the loop and won't effectively cool??
Therefore do I need two loops and would I then be best to cool the two GPU's in one loop (easier pipework), or as the CPU will most certainly be cooler than GPU's do I cool CPU and one GPU in one loop (probably GPU2, as that will always have less load and always runs cooler)???

3. Circuit Diagrams - Anyone able to advise where I can get circuit layouts, particularly for a dual loop, as I don't know where you split the loops???

Again, any help would be appreciated.

Ridesy

 

[Luckyboy1]

To begin with, I need to apologize for my U.S. centric attitude. I didn't take the time to go look at your profile to see that you weren't in the States. With that said, let's have at it!....

1. Triple Rad - either Thermochill PA120.3, or Swiftech MCR320...

To begin with, I have no experience with either of these radiators. The information shown at their websites shows the Swiftec is a double pass radiator. The only referrence to "triple" is the ability to hang 3, 120 mm fans on it. If and only IF I've read the information correctly, then I'd default to the Thermochill model because it is available in a triple pass or 3 core setup. Now remember, when you make the water flow loop longer it increases resistance to flow, so you'll need to pay attention to making sure you've got enough pumping power to run it. Here's the links I used to get my information...


http://www.thermochill.com/pa1203.php

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/MCR320-QP.asp#fandb


2. CPU Block - either Dangerden copper TDX, or Swiftech APOGEE...

What CPU is all this going on? I can tell you the Swiftech is a one size fits all and I'm not fond of that idea. It is made of more plastic, especially at the fittings and I'm not fond of that either. Both designs are not made to accept as far as I know a Peltier backplate, so that may be a consideration.

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/Apogee.asp#performance


3. VGA Blocks - either Dangerden NV-78 SLI, or Swiftech MCW60 x 2...

That answer is easy! Danger Den every time. People complain about the 6800 Ultras and some of the 7900 cards and heating and rightly so, but this Danger Den model, while expensive, cools not just the GPU, but the video memory as well. Use that Danger Den water block on those cards AND make sure its getting water under 40 C and there isn't a card that will touch the performance you get. You simply will not regret it from a performance standpoint...

http://www.planetx64.com/index.php?opti...w&id=72&Itemid=14&limit=1&limitstart=1


I'm not all that up on pumps for PC's, but my Father was a Mechanical Engineer and I can read and understand spec charts, so if you can provide a link, maybe I can comment further on pumps.

I would highly advise a double loop system. Problem is, where are you going to put the second radiator? Try and splice two lines into the same radiator and effectively, regardless of what you hear elsewhere, you end up with one loop getting all the flow and the other?

You want a loop for your CPU and Norhtbdridge/Southbridge if applicable and then another for the video cards.

 

[Ridesy]

Luckyboy,

The CPU will be an FX60 or 57, so would the Dangerden TDX A64 Copper Block be a good choice?

OK on VGA Blocks, as I can buy the 1/2" Dangerden NV-7800 SLI pair here.

Rad - Can also buy the triple Thermochill PA120.3 so OK there to.

Pump - Iwaki is going to be difficult as there technical guy in UK said a 3.5m head pump here would have 20mm intake and reducing that to 1/2" could cause issues!
Dangerden do a 12v Liang D5 pump - would that be OK, as they say will feed multiple blocks??

Double loop sounds fun - so would I split feed from pump into two, then supply CPU with one and GPU's with other, take each loop through there own rad and the combine on teh way back to resevior?

Ridesy

 

[Luckyboy1]

I wish I was better at powerpoint or something so I could lay all this out for you. Let me just explain it and you can write the diagram of what I've got so you can get a picture of a working system.

We'll start at the reservior. From there, the line goes to the imput side of my +12 volt pump.

* When I wasn't running a Peltier, I used a single loop system and the line ran from the CPU, which is a 478 pin 3.2 GHz Prescott chip and then to the Northbridge to the GPU and then to the radiator and back to the reservior. Even though you are not running a Peltier and may never do so, I think with the Danger Den water block for the video card, you would be limited by going single loop. Why? The Danger Den water block cools the memory for your video card. In my case, with an 850XTPE, it didn't cool the video memory and memory, be it System RAM or video memory is very, very sensitive to heat. I may be wrong about all this single pass vs. double pass as it relates to non-Peltiered units and nVidia water blocks for your video card. There is a way of getting a 100% reliable answer on this issue, and that would be to shoot off an e-mail to Danger Den asking them this question. Give them a link to this thread so they can explore at least as much of the issue as we have.

Let's see, as I currently have it, I then out of the pump and to the CPU water block which had a 226 watt Peltier unit on it creating massive heat and then to a Northbridge water block.

From the Northbridge water block it then goes back out of the case and to one of those blocky, automatic trasmission coolers.

Then it comes out of the radiator to the GPU block and back to another radiator which is exactly the same as my first automatic transmission cooler and in fact, they are sandwiched together using common fans to cool both radiators. Some day I may break them apart and get better cooling by doing so, but that's the way they are setup now.

From there it goes back to the reservior and the loop repeats itself from there.


The more I think about it, the more I think you'll be just fine with a single loop system. Remember, I was cooling both a 478 pin Prescott chip which are notorious for heat and a Northbridge before the water ever got to my GPU. The water only gained like 3 C after going out of the CPU AND the Northbridge both and then the GPU added another 2 C to it and it was completely cooled off to within a couple of degrees of room remperature before going back into the CPU again. Even if the room temperature gets up to something outrageous like 32 c, you're still at 37 C tops on the video memory, and that's as grand as anyone could hope for. The only wild card in my mind here is whether or not the radiators you've chosen will shed the heat as fast as my setup, but Danger Den will know for sure, so e-mail them straight away!

The Dangerden TDX A64 is an excellent choice, but from what I can see, it may or may not accept a Peltier backing plate. This is usually not a worry for most because compared to how far the chip will go...

Water cooling WELL takes you 80% of the distance to the limits of the chip.

Adding a HIGH WATTAGE Peltier takes you to about 96% of the chips capabilities.

Going to phased cooling brings it all the way up to 98%

Nitrogen cooling gets you as far as we know how to do it now.

Now, in my 478 pin Prescott situation, that was warped a bit. I was able to go from 3.2 GHz in 1:1 of course where it really counts to 4.0 on water cooling. Going to my Peltier configuration allowed me to go to 4.4 GHz, which is not the typical scaling.

This pump will be fine for even multiple blocks...

http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=175&cat=4&page=1

If the technical guy said it could cause problems on the other pump. chances are, it will cause problems.

Try splitting and then rejoining in parralell radiator loops and you will end up with one loop getting almost all the flow.

 

[Snerp]

Ok, there are a few things you need to think out here...starting with your system choices.

The 150G Raptor runs faster then the 74GB raptors in a raid.

The AMD 4400+ X2 overclocked to 2.6Ghz (very easy to do with watercooling, nice RAM, and a nice power supply) is the same thing as a FX-60 at under half the price.

Get a Coolermaster Stacker. They are huge and easy to work with.

Here's the best bang for your buck with watercooling.

CPU: Swiftech Apogee

GPU: Danger Den MAZE 4 or the MCW-60 are basically the same thing

Pump: Danger Den G5 or the swiftech MCP-650 (same thing, the base modle for these pumps is a Lang something)

Rad: Thermochill PA or HE III the II's do a great job too...even a car heatercore works well too.

Res: Just do a Tline and a fillport

Tubing: Masterkleer is some nice tubing. It's cheap, almost as flexable as tygon, and it dosn't stain like tygon or other tubing.

Fans: I like Panaflo

There you go. Get that setup and you will be happy. overclock.net is a great website for all your overclocking and watercooling questions.

Hope that helps!

*Edit* Don't forget RAMsinks for your Video Card 😉

 

[Ridesy]

Luckyboy,

Thanks for information, will get an email of to Dangerden to make sure they agree with specs and to ask where I can get the pump, as the UK distributors don't seem to stock this item.

Assuming they agree with information I will try a single loop to start with triple 120mm rad as discussed and see how that goes!

Thanks again.

Ridesy

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Ridesy
The CPU will be an FX60 or 57, so would the Dangerden TDX A64 Copper Block be a good choice?

If your choice is between an Apogee and a TDX, you should more closely consider the Apogee. Don't get me wrong, the TDX is a good block, but compared to more modern designs it's wanting.

OK on VGA Blocks, as I can buy the 1/2" Dangerden NV-7800 SLI pair here.

As long as you're prepared for the added heat-dump, meaning you have a large, well-blown rad, you'll do fine with these.

Rad - Can also buy the triple Thermochill PA120.3 so OK there to.

Good choice. 🙂

Pump - Iwaki is going to be difficult as there technical guy in UK said a 3.5m head pump here would have 20mm intake and reducing that to 1/2" could cause issues!
Dangerden do a 12v Liang D5 pump - would that be OK, as they say will feed multiple blocks??

Iwaki's are mostly used for their "Wow!" factor, and suitable for external mounts. They gnerate lots of heat and EMI. Since you aren't mounting a pure impingement CPU block there should be enough pressure in a single D5 to service your loop.

Double loop sounds fun - so would I split feed from pump into two, then supply CPU with one and GPU's with other, take each loop through there own rad and the combine on teh way back to resevior?

Fun? Perhaps. 😉 But the best design, no. The only logical reason to implement dual loops is to service, and/or isolate, multiple blocks. Say, if you wanted to have your CPU and GPU(s) on one circuit, and several HD blocks on another. A configuration like this would keep the overall drag to a minimum and avoid the last blocks being hit with too-warm coolant. To keep tubing to a minimum and to avoid using "Y" connectors it's better to use independent rads as well in a dual loop configuration. Seems like more of a challenge than "fun" now, huh? 🙂

Based on the parts you're interested in, I'd suggest keeping it linear:

Res->Pump->Rad->CPU->GPU1->GPU2

If you wanted to avoid the warm coolant pool in the res you could leave it out entirely, but frankly, with a rad like that (and decent air flowing through it), you won't have a problem. My res is positioned between my pumps:

Pump->Res->Pump->Rad->CPU->GPU1->GPU2

And the coolant temp exiting my rad is just about ambient which is damned good. In any case, good luck!