Help! Car not starting.

[LTC8K6]

I bet a good thump to the shifter console would have made it start in park.

 

[phucheneh]

I bet a good thump to the shifter console would have made it start in park.

Quite possible. It's just a switch. May even be a little linkage rod that came loose (wouldn't be fixed Fonz-style, but would cost $0 to repair).

And I think I called it a 'solenoid' above; that's my bad. I was thinking of the shift-lock solenoid (although it's possible that they're integrated into one piece). It's also possible that the switches are internal, though, and he needs a new shifter assembly (unless he wants to take his current one apart and fix it).

Or he can just say 'fudge it' and keep starting in neutral. I would have no problem, since I always rest my foot on the brake when I go to start a car. Some people don't have that habit, though, and I could see someone starting the car, then getting distracted with a phone or stereo/mp3 player (or whatever else) and accidentally starting to roll.

By sontakke's, logic, though, he should've just beat on the starter until it somehow fixed his shifter issue, since most consider that the 'easiest' thing to do.

edit: also, OP, I'm pretty sure there are Saturn-specific forums out there, if need you instructions on how to fix this. At the least, you can probably find out how to remove the console, and if shifter replacement is needed (it's usually just four bolts holding it to the floor).

 

[sontakke]

Why wasn't "Try starting in neutral" the first suggestion rather than putting the voltmeter on the battery? Don't you agree that it would have been easiest to rule out the neutral safety switch first before going any further? The suggestion was to attempt to start the car in neutral and NOT TO GO AND CHANGE the neutral safety switch!

Hey, I don't have ASE certificate; if you do, don't get offended if you missed the simple diagnostic tool(just a good-hearted ribbing to my friend phucheneh, he can take it

By the way, I had not replied to this until *after* OP had already found what is wrong with his car. I believe in keeping my mouth shut so as to keep my ignorance hidden from all of you

Seriously, often experts end up going in deep end for no apparent reason whereas a simpleton would have come up with a better solution. This is a perfect example.

 

[phucheneh]

Why wasn't "Try starting in neutral" the first suggestion rather than putting the voltmeter on the battery? Don't you agree that it would have been easiest to rule out the neutral safety switch first before going any further? The suggestion was to attempt to start the car in neutral and NOT TO GO AND CHANGE the neutral safety switch!

Hey, I don't have ASE certificate; if you do, don't get offended if you missed the simple diagnostic tool(just a good-hearted ribbing to my friend phucheneh, he can take it

By the way, I had not replied to this until *after* OP had already found what is wrong with his car. I believe in keeping my mouth shut so as to keep my ignorance hidden from all of you

Seriously, often experts end up going in deep end for no apparent reason whereas a simpleton would have come up with a better solution. This is a perfect example.

Sorry, I took it as more than a gentle ribbing. Hard to tell the kind of temperament in which something is delivered when you're reading text.

There's a reason I try not to advertise credentials or say much beyond 'I do this for a living;' and the cases where I say that are not typically to assert dominance, but rather to speak about the inner workings (read: rapings) of most shops or simply argue something based on sheer volume of similar experiences.

In this case, I can't EVER recall diagnosing a bad neutral switch in an auto. Plenty of shift lock solenoids (not as a no-start, just a 'I can't get it out of park' complaint); but not the switch (which again, due to lack of experience with it, I admit to not even knowing where it is on his/most cars- hell, it may be in the range selector on the trans, come to think of it.)

When you're looking for an issue, you generally do the things that rule out common problems first, ESPECIALLY if they're easy to check. And no, 'hit the starter' doesn't count, as it is far from a conclusive test.

In this case: turning the key forward to crank should give a clear, solid click from the starter relay, which can generally be located and checked in under a minute. This lets you know that the ignition switch is doing its job, and nothing is inhibiting the car from at least TRYING to start. If that relay clicks on, there's an extremely large chance that the starter solenoid is getting voltage.

In his case, it would NOT have been turning on, which would have led to an immediate check of the most common things to inhibit it...you can guess what one of those is.

If it IS turning on, the question simply becomes 'is the battery delivering adequate power to the starter.'

I really, REALLY wish everything was as easy to diagnose as a no-start. I think you're confusing me giving detailed instruction/explanations with telling him to do something complicated.

BTW- no hard feelings. None of the above is meant in a negative way, I'm simply trying to explain my thought process, and how it's not as convoluted as it may seem.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

What I'm wondering now, is, do I even need to change the Neutral Safety Switch at all? It seems to be a problem that only shows up (sometimes) when it's real cold out and apparently it's a pretty common problem. The car started up just fine today in Park.

 

[sontakke]

The funny part is that the neutral safety switch is generally an integrated gizmo which controls the prndl light; usually called range switch. The switch has to know if the transmission is in neutral and/or park. It has to prevent the starter from engaging in any other gear. That switch usually costs about $100 in parts and probably at least that much in labor.

Have you noticed any funny business with your prndl indicator lights? If so, then the switch is on the way out. If not, you should probably do nothing until the switch gives more trouble.

 

[sontakke]

RE: "I can't get it out of park"

What is the first thing which comes to your mind when a customer has that complaint? Do you really think of busted shift solenoid as most likely cause?

I would ask him to press on the brake pedal and tell me if the brake light comes on. If it does not, brake light switch needs to be replaced/adjusted!

 

[phucheneh]

Any car new enough to require the brake be depressed to shift is also probably new enough to have two switches. Guess what the stop lamp switch doesn't do?

Funny that you're giving me shit for having told him to CHECK THE BATTERY on a FUCKING NO-START, while you're trying to assert knowledge you don't have.

 

[sontakke]

You don't jump at shift solenoid without checking out the stop lamp switch which is trivial and this has been my point all along. In terms of diagnosis, try with the trivial test first even if it is not the most likely in professional experience. Especially the tests which even a person who has not seen a multimeter or a wrench can do.

I am done with this though as it seems like you want to pull the rank rather than engaging in fun discussion over couple of beers at a party.

 

[phucheneh]

You don't jump at shift solenoid...

You don't 'jump' at anything. I don't remember EVER saying that if a car has an immobile shifter, you should instantly replace the shift lock solenoid. I simply said that I had replaced many of them; that they were the typical reason for yanking the console and messing with the shifter assembly.

You inferred your own meaning, and YOU used it in some attempt to try and...hell, I don't really know what you were trying to do. Seemed like you were grasping at straws to try and prove that I was incompetent.

Are you still butthurt over your 'my trans won't go into gear' thread where I repeatedly recommended that you properly check the linkage before condemning an entire transmission?

Yeah, I'm the one that jumps to random conclusions.