Help! Car Not Starting -- Part 2

[WhipperSnapper]

May 21 update: I think it was the negative terminal battery bolt.

Previously, I started a thread about my car not starting:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2298012

I replaced the battery about 1.5 months ago and all has been good since...until last night when the car started doing the exact same thing it had been doing before.

What would cause a brand new battery to no longer start the car without warning after 1.5 months (and probably only about 150 total miles)?

Could it be a dead alternator?

 

[iamwiz82]

You hear nothing after the key is turned? Sounds like a bad starter to me. Could be a bad solenoid but most new cars have them integrated as one unit nowadays. A bad battery/alternator will cause a fairly fast paced clicking sound normally, as the solenoid attempts to engage but cannot.

The quick and dirty method is to give the starter a whack with a hammer to check if it's the starter.

 

[olds]

You didn't fix the problem the first time. You just a band aid on it.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

You didn't fix the problem the first time. You just a band aid on it.

Apparently not. But I think it's battery power related since a new battery seemed to fix the problem for a while. Other than a dead alternator not recharging the battery, what would cause the car to start fine for 1.5 months on a new battery and then suddenly no longer start and do the same clicking sound it did before changing the battery?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

You hear nothing after the key is turned? Sounds like a bad starter to me. Could be a bad solenoid but most new cars have them integrated as one unit nowadays. A bad battery/alternator will cause a fairly fast paced clicking sound normally, as the solenoid attempts to engage but cannot.

The quick and dirty method is to give the starter a whack with a hammer to check if it's the starter.

I hear clicking sounds. I would try whacking the starter, but I think it's under the car and I can't really get to it.

The car started just fine without any problems until last night.

 

[phucheneh]

Could be as simple as a cable or connection.

Did I ask you to check things in the other thread that you didn't check? That happens a lot when people post no-starts. If you have a voltmeter, I can lead you through troubleshooting it in about ten minutes or less.

edit: oh, yeah, that thread...

Get a voltmeter. Check-

Battery voltage with everything turned off, key out of ignition (put meter probes on the POST, not the terminal surrounding it).
Battery voltage while key is being held in 'crank' position (again, poke the lead post, not the terminal).

Report back for further instruction.

 

[LTC8K6]

What would cause a brand new battery to no longer start the car without warning after 1.5 months (and probably only about 150 total miles)?

Could it be a dead alternator?

Not driving it enough to recharge the battery?

 

[phucheneh]

This is the kinda shit that really makes me wanna rip my hair out. Stop with 'maybe' and 'what if' and the 99% of the time, these problems are the easiest thing in the freakin' world to fix.

Right here I was gonna put a image macro of that dude from that 'Sons of Guns' TV show, where he informs you that this shit is, in fact, simple (sim-puhl). But I'm too lazy to make one and GIS just yielding ones of his uggo daughter. So here, for no good reason, is one of those:

Now then.

I will say that there is proof all over this forum that there are an asston of things I am not good at and/or simply do not know much about. Most recent threads by me: "I weld like a five-year-old Helen Keller" and "I accidentally made a car kind of sort of really extremely too fast; tell me about tire choices that might result in slightly less death of the driver."

I do not care if/when I look dumb. I'm cool with it. I acknowledge it.

But if you're posting on this forum, and you have a no-start that you can't diagnose; you're dumb.

Not because you can't fix a no-start. But because you're apparently paying no mind to the dude that can help you pinpoint the issue extremely quickly. Yes, I'm that confidant/conceited (because it's SIM-PUHL).

Don't do the meandering, tire-kicking thing where it eventually gets kind of fixed. Just start testing. If the battery is dead, let the local parts store charge it for free. Then see what's happening when you have a known-good battery. Even if it starts just fine with a recharged (or new) batt, that's not 'fixing' it. But you can then diagnose what will eventually make it quit starting again.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Yeah, I know I should check all this stuff with a voltmeter but...I'm really not much of a wrench and I don't have a voltmeter. I was just wondering if anyone could suggest reasons why the car would run fine for 1.5 months after installation of a new battery and then go back to doing what it had been doing prior to the installation of the new battery. It seems like some sort of an issue related to the battery's not having enough power. (For those who remember, when it happened with the old battery, I was able to start it with jumper cables, which to me suggests that the problem has to do with battery power.) I mean, doesn't it seem logical that the problem is probably an alternator failing to recharge the battery?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Battery voltage with everything turned off, key out of ignition (put meter probes on the POST, not the terminal surrounding it).
Battery voltage while key is being held in 'crank' position (again, poke the lead post, not the terminal).

Report back for further instruction.

What do you mean when you say, "lead post, not the terminal"? I have one of those batteries where the cables screw into the sides and I don't have nubs that stick up on the top. (I'd hate to buy a voltmeter and then blow it out.)

 

[jaedaliu]

What do you mean when you say, "lead post, not the terminal"? I have one of those batteries where the cables screw into the sides and I don't have nubs that stick up on the top. (I'd hate to buy a voltmeter and then blow it out.)

well, you won't blow a volt meter, just make sure you're clicked over to 20V or greater.

When you jump the car, it starts up every time without a problem? If so, probably not the starter.

The voltmeter's a good idea. You can measure when you have it running: If it's high, alternator is probably good.

You can measure after it's off: Battery voltage is a sign of charge state.

You measure a few times over the night or day or whatever. If the voltage drops continously, you probably have a slow drain somewhere.

good luck!

 

[olds]

The reason the car ran fine for 1.5 months after putting a new battery in is because you have a slow electrical drain that takes 1.5 months to manifest itself. It isn't a completely dead alternator because that would show up in a day or two.

 

[LTC8K6]

The reason the car ran fine for 1.5 months after putting a new battery in is because you have a slow electrical drain that takes 1.5 months to manifest itself. It isn't a completely dead alternator because that would show up in a day or two.

150 miles in 1.5 months is not much driving to recharge the battery...

Might not be anything but the normal parasitic drain.

 

[olds]

150 miles in 1.5 months is not much driving to recharge the battery...

Might not be anything but the normal parasitic drain.

I didn't read the first thread and didn't see that. (or may have skimmed over it here)

 

[WhipperSnapper]

150 miles in 1.5 months is not much driving to recharge the battery...

Might not be anything but the normal parasitic drain.

I just have a 3 mile round-trip commute to work, and I live in a town of about 120,000 people and I'm near the major shopping strip, so I don't have to drive very far to get anywhere. Could it really be too many startups relative to the amount of miles driven that drained the battery?

 

[MixMasterTang]

Here's a test, start the car, disconnect the battery and see if the car continues to run, if it does the alternator is providing at least some juice, if the car dies, lights do dim, etc. then the alternator is not producing enough output.

 

[phucheneh]

Dude, you're asking us to tell you what's wrong with your car without doing ANY legwork. This is not Windows remote assistance; I can't drag and drop a battery into your car.

I do not think a normal startup followed by a three mile drive is dragging your battery down very much. If it is...TADA, guess what you can use to see that? It rhymes with 'schmoltmeter.'

Have the battery checked. If it's good, you likely have one of the following:

A parasitic (key off) draw. Usually something stupid like a glove box light.

A weak charging system. Which means a bad alternator, OR

My own random-ass guess; a cabling issue. Something as simple as a poor connection at the battery can cause harder starting through both an inefficient delivery of power to the starter, and having a hard time charging. In either case, measuring voltage drop with a meter tells the whole story.

 

[LTC8K6]

Here's a test, start the car, disconnect the battery and see if the car continues to run, if it does the alternator is providing at least some juice, if the car dies, lights do dim, etc. then the alternator is not producing enough output.

Don't do that.

 

[LTC8K6]

I just have a 3 mile round-trip commute to work, and I live in a town of about 120,000 people and I'm near the major shopping strip, so I don't have to drive very far to get anywhere. Could it really be too many startups relative to the amount of miles driven that drained the battery?

It could be. It could also be one of the other things mentioned.

You can usually have your starting and charging system tested for free at a chain auto parts store like Advance.

You are going to have to get some testing done.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

May 21 update: I think it was the negative terminal battery bolt.

So...I bought a battery charger (Schumacher 1200a for $31 at Amazon) and a cigarette lighter plug-in digital voltage reader (about $7) and after charging (the new battery) to 100% it still wouldn't start. So I disconnected and reconnected the negative battery terminal and then it started strong. So I drove it around a little bit and the voltage meter was reading 14.7 volts (suggesting that the alternator is fine.) And then when I went to go to work yesterday it wouldn't start again (just clicks) (and so I had to hijack my wife's car).

The negative battery terminal bolt was making a shitty connection and never really seemed to tighten into the battery terminal. So I just changed the bolt and voila! It starts up nice and strong and the new bolt bites better and actually tightens--cost to fix--$2, and it only took about two minutes to replace. On the old bolt it looks like two of the threads have melted or corroded together and for the most part it looks like it's stripped.

I guess we'll have to see if it starts up consistently for me over the next week, but I think the prognosis is good. For my next novice mechanic trick I'm hoping to replace the 11 year and 65,000 mile spark plugs.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

So... Phucheneh was correct with bad cabling.

 

[phucheneh]

To be fair, those dumbass GM side posts make it harder to check, since you can't actually access the terminal (as in, the part made into the battery). So no checking voltage drop between post and terminal...but also, you can always just disconnect/clean/reconnect. And it sounds like he already knew the bolt was stripped. :/

 

[TurtleCrusher]

And you could have seen that on a visual check if you looked in the first place... This happened on my ram. Easy fix.

 

[Danimal1209]

Just noticed you had fixed it.