~~~Help a Couple Cops Out! ~~~ What Wireless networking Rig for neighbors to share WIRELESS network?

[EXman]

Have some friends (Copper's) that live accross the street approx 40-60meter/yards from each other that want to start a Wireless network to play games and such and also share a single DSL connection. Another one of their friends has told them they can get a booster antenna but this is also going to be a cost sensitive case as they are both just police officers and not made of dough!

What is some of the Hardware they will need?

Has anyone tried networking with their neighbors?

How far will home wireless reach?

 

[doug]

It is possible to go very cheap.

Antennas that can reach as much as 10 miles can be made for about $10.00, an old machine running linux can be used as a wireless router.

I would suggest reading more at:
http://www.seattlewireless.net/
http://www.practicallynetworked.com/

 

[SaigonK]

40 to 60 feet? About any unit should go that far!
i can go all the way to the end of the street with my laptop and STILl be on my netowrk..of course i trimmed the signal strength down on my Cisco unit to avoid this wide range I was offering all my neighbors

 

[Stealth1024]

I set the following up for my friends (one of whom has cable internet and was willing to share)

the houses are 1500 to 2000 feet apart with a few trees in the middle and one Linksys WAP11 within LOS (sitting in windows) at each house hooked up to the network did the trick. For a more reliable connection we applied the power tweak (100mw) to all WAP11's and the bandwidth is great for gaming, playing music (got one computer setup up as a massive file server) and of course sharing a broadband cable connection

the WAP11's are fairly cheap and do bridging with the latest firmware

 

[ktwebb]

The easiest way, and cheapest, to go about this is to buy SOHO AP's that will bridge. Set them to bridge. This is assuming you want to set up a LAN at the remote site and not just a single wireless client. If you just need one client PC, then a client adapter and antenna is all you would need on the remote side, with the AP/Router in AP mode on the host side. You will need line of sight at 60 meters. A few treed can be overcome but introduce reflection and fresnel zone issues into the mix. You will probably still need aftermarket antennas, or you can make your own. Using the 100mW hack is a questionable tactic. It's unclear at this point, because I have seen some differing spectrum analysis data, but there is a good chance the hack widens the carrier channel to the point of bleeding into unlicensed bands (On both sides) but you can certainly determine if it's worth the risk yourself. FCC fines are not cheap however. The AP set to bridge on the host site would plug into a switch or router that is setup to share a broadband connection, and the client or remote bridge would just extend the LAN from the host side. In essence, making the remote side part of the hosts LAN.

 

[Stealth1024]

If you go this route, I'll save you some headaches now...

Set them up line of sight (we found basement windows don't work well, first floor work great behind the entertainment center or in the garage in one instance) and then leave them alone for 10 to 15 minutes (this is after you've properly configured each of their settings). We couldn't get anything to work and were realling getting frustrated when finally we just left it alone for a while and game back to it. Well we later discovered it just takes them a while to establish a connection and bridge the networks, but once its in place its good (until someone bumps one or power gets reset then you have to wait a while)...

4 port hub, 8 port switch, and 4 port switch/router makes up the in-home networks... the router performs NAT and acts as a DHCP server for all the computers on the network

EDIT: DO NOT get an integrated router/switch/print server whatever with the wireless access point... it either doesn't come with the crucial external antennas or doesn't have the same internals that allows it to do what you need it to do..

 

[Stealth1024]

"because I have seen some differing spectrum analysis data"

In house testing (in other words we try this ourselves) has determined increasing the power on the WAP11 has no negative impact on bandwidth and in my case doubles the range of the access point when linked to by a PC card

The WAP11 can achieve great range, and perform bridging that only other products that cost 2 to 4 times as much can perform, it works and it appears to be reliable - don't be stupid save the money...

 

[ktwebb]

My comment has absolutely nothing to do with bandwidth concerns

 

[Stealth1024]

worried about the FCC? just don't use channels 1 or 12, stick in the middle at 6 and interference to other frequencies in the HAM radio spectrum will be very minimal at any distance

 

[ktwebb]

Actually, I'm not worried about anything. I use 100mW Cisco products. IF, and say if because there is disputed data concerning the maokhian.com data, is accurate, then even the middle channel, 6 or 2.437 is not enough to maintain legal carrier restrictions. It's certainly safer and the wise choice if you choose to apply the hack. Directional antennas further insulate you from interfering with band on either side. Using the minimum gain antenna is another choice if you do apply the hack. Just info pard.

 

[Stealth1024]

Sorry ktwebb - I don't want to give the impression this is the professional way to go. I am simply illustrating how the WAP11 has worked in the past and how it can be a suitable low cost alternative to SOHO or professional access points, some of which can support many many more users and when hooked up to external antennas with amplifiers extend to ranges over ten miles at 5.5 MBPS.

There is no doubt that you get what you pay for and that range, bandwidth, signal quality, and features are more readily available on Cisco access points and PC cards for example

 

[ktwebb]

<< amplifiers extend to ranges over ten miles at 5.5 MBPS >>



Way over 10 miles at 5.5 Mbps. The longest 802.11b run I have been apart of is 16 miles at 11 Mbps. Amped of course but still within FCC regs. Also admittedly a bit shaky at 11 Mbps under certain conditions. On those runs, we usually use proprietary 5.8 Ghz hardware.

 

[Stealth1024]

I have taken a look at the data and I would like to see results verified over a sample of access points and at various distances.

The articles point out that increases the power on the WAP11 leads to sideband bleadover into possible HAM radio frequencies and thus bandwidth is sacrificed. Well I have seen no evidence of bandwidth dropoff at 100mw from my own tests.

I would be very interested to take a HAM radio and sit 2000 feet away in a neighboring house from a wireless network and see if there is anything more than an occassional background piece of interference.

If they can be afforded, directional antennas would help a lot with range and interference, however, this always isn't practical if a connection to more than one access point (point to multipoint is supported by the WAP11) is required, although the WAP11 does have two connections and both can send/receive so if once access point in the middle of the houses had two directional antennas we might be in business. Again, however there is added cost, where because they are so close it may have not been needed in the first place.

 

[Stealth1024]

The max I've heard of first hand is 25 miles at 5.5...

 

[ktwebb]

Again, bandwidth would be the very least of my concerns. That factor is easy to determine. Without a spectrum analyzer the more important, and legal matter, is a tougher nut to crack If it does in fact broaden the carrier channel, it bleeds on both sides, not just the HAM frequencies. I would like to see definitive evidence either way as well. Until that is determined, using Omnis in a multipoint environment is risky at best. Narrow beams would be the only way I would attempt a hacked AP/Bridge Wi-Lan or Wi-Wan until the matter is determined. Mileage and discetion obviously varies. Since I am in the business, it's a non-issue for me. I can't afford to take the chance.

 

[Stealth1024]

true true...

what are your experiences with consumers violating FCC regulations with comercially available products?

 

[ktwebb]

hehe. None so far, knock on wood. We take it very seriously in the commercial Wireless LAN/WAN industry for obvious reasons. I haven't heard of any of my contemporaries in FCC trouble. Home based consumers either for that matter. With the hack, I wouldn't even be concerned with the FCC mounties busting you on their own. It's the HAM guys, an interesting bunch , that would be the ones to blow the whistle. IF their transmissions are being affected.

 

[Stealth1024]

well I live out in the middle of nowhere whee you have to stand on your head to get TV reception... the last tower (they have cell, some sort of microwave dam relay control, and others who knows) they put in out here (we live on top of a big hill in western pa) pretty much did away with half of available clear TV stations.. I think now we can get ABC, NBC, CBS, and fox and maybe public TV depending on the weather haha

And considering we own 400 acres and the WAP11 isn't going to go more than 2000 feet.. I think I'm safe for the time being

 

[EXman]

What is a price on a WAP11 ?

and thanks 4 da help y'all!

 

[Stealth1024]

one of the best prices from a company I have ordered from before: http://www.ibuyer.net/frame.asp?url=http://direct.mwave.com/mwave/ishopinc.hmx?SKU=970039

 

[EXman]

So I'll Need a Wap11 for the DSL subscriber and a PC card for the copper accross the street should I get him a matching Linksys 802.11b card?

And for the fella with the DSL and WAP11 on his side can he just connect through a regular NIC card to the WAP11 or will he have to have a hub before it gets to the WAP11? the one guy has a cheapy 4port intel hub already.

 

[Stealth1024]

what you can do is get two wap11's and bridge them for greater distance and bandwidth if there is a network on either side, although that would require a broadband router on the side with the DSL though

EDIT: make a numbered list of how many locations you want to tie together and list in ( ) what they have there like hubs, etc. cause I don't think I know exactly the details here..

 

[EXman]

Ok this is basically two computers that are 40-60 meters apart ( accross the street neighbors) that want to share an internet connection and network the two for gaming.

 

[Stealth1024]

you could theoretically use two of these: http://direct.mwave.com/mwave/doc2/032835.html at about 90 dollars/piece

 

[manly]

I just upgraded from a D-Link DWL-650 PC card to an ORiNOCO Gold PC card and throughput improved by about 3 times. I would highly recommend choose ORiNOCO clients, as they are consistently rated the best price/performance. They also support external attennas, unlike most of the budget cards out there.

I don't know anything (yet) about hacking wireless access points, but I am selling a Compaq wireless router. Search in the For Sale forum if you're interested.

As for the Linksys WAP11, I don't believe it has an integrated switch so you'll need a hub if you want to bridge it to a wired Ethernet LAN as well. Linksys is doing extremely well in SOHO networking, but their wireless products don't receive glowing reviews. If you were going to buy the WAP11 + Linksys clients, I'd rather get an ORiNOCO RG-1100 kit w/ a USB Gold client for about the same cost.

Many of the reviews out there rate the SMC wireless Barricade as the best value in a wireless access point/router. I've worked with one before, and it seemed to be a nice unit. I'm currently using the Compaq CP-2W because it was a good bargain.